Northern Irish...EEA2

[Debgb]

Just found this. Topic 16 clears the issue of family members of dual Irish/British.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/polic ... /#header16

Thing is that since my husband was born in the UK has lived in the UK forever, he is, as Obie said earlier, by all accounts a British citizen by virtue of being born in the UK.

I understand that the current law stands in breach of Good Friday agreement and also that I will likely be refused initially and it will go to court. I just can't bear the thought of hanging in balance for six months and then the trouble of appeal.

I was wondering if I should just try Marriage visa without getting a British passport! Include a cover letter saying my husband has only ever had Irish passport and is settled in the UK...but his birth certificate says he was born in the UK and as such is also automatically a British citizen. So, in light of the recent amendment, we are applying for Marriage visa instead of EEA2.

Am I being silly here?

[Jambo]

A child born of a Spanish Citizen, who has lived in UK for several years, who parents secured PR before he'she was born, may have a difficulty fighting this, irrespective of whether or not, he'she holds a British passport.

Using Spain as an example is interesting. Spain doesn't allow dual nationality (except with some South American countries) so a child born to Spanish parents who are settled in the UK would be considered Spanish by the Spanish authorities only if he doesn't exercise his British nationality. The UK authorities might nevertheless see him as British.

NI is a special case. I don't think there is any other territory in the world which has a similar arrangement with regards to nationality.

As her husband is born in the UK, it would be obvious to the HO that he might be also a BC even without a passport.

[Jambo]

Just found this. Topic 16 clears the issue of family members of dual Irish/British.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/polic ... /#header16

Thing is that since my husband was born in the UK has lived in the UK forever, he is, as Obie said earlier, by all accounts a British citizen by virtue of being born in the UK.

I understand that the current law stands in breach of Good Friday agreement and also that I will likely be refused initially and it will go to court. I just can't bear the thought of hanging in balance for six months and then the trouble of appeal.

The question is whether this applies to people who never exercised their British citizenship.

I was wondering if I should just try Marriage visa without getting a British passport! Include a cover letter saying my husband has only ever had Irish passport and is settled in the UK...but his birth certificate says he was born in the UK and as such is also automatically a British citizen. So, in light of the recent amendment, we are applying for Marriage visa instead of EEA2.

There is no need to be British to apply for a marriage/spouse visa. Also settled people can apply using this route, not only British. Irish citizens are considered settled in the UK from their first day in the UK so even an Irish citizen born in Dublin can move to the UK and bring his spouse under a spouse visa if he wishes.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

NI is a special case. I don't think there is any other territory in the world which has a similar arrangement with regards to nationality.

Interesting question.

As her husband is born in the UK, it would be obvious to the HO that he might be also a BC even without a passport.

How would HO know where the husband was born unless he says?

[chaoclive]

This is a very interesting thread. Has anyone taken action based on any of the advice here?

I'm in the same situation...still considering.

[el patron]

Quite a few successful outcomes in the past year.

[Stanic]

I am from N. Ireland and got my wife the EEA2 as an Irish Citizen living in the UK (had both passports), but have only learned recently that this is not so simple.

However, because we got the EEA2 before things change, will this cause any issues going for EEA (PR) as we applied before they tried to close this 'loophole'?

[el patron]

Yes you should be OK as the Residence Card was issued before the change

[Obie]

Yes you should be OK as the Residence Card was issued before the change

Agreed.

I wonder what will be the position of a Nationalist in Northern Ireland who is technically a British but chooses to align themselves as Irish. They should be able to apply under EU law, I would think .

[Wanderer]

Very odd situation the Eire/NI/EEA thing, don't forget we were all one country 90 years ago or so.

If Scotland had split from UK last year (and stayed in EU), I wonder if we'd have similar situation to this, Carlisle folks exercising treat rights in Gretna etc...

[el patron]

Yes you should be OK as the Residence Card was issued before the change

Agreed.

I wonder what will be the position of a Nationalist in Northern Ireland who is technically a British but chooses to align themselves as Irish. They should be able to apply under EU law, I would think .

They renounce UK nationality or attract refusals as I see it

[Obie]

I disagree. A person cannot be asked to renounce something which they have chosen to take in the first place.

If the agreement states the right of the inhabitant in Northern Ireland to determine whether they identify themselves as Irish British or both, the same provision cannot require them to revoke something they had decided not to identify with.

It will make a mockery of the agreement.

[chaoclive]

I disagree. A person cannot be asked to renounce something which they have chosen to take in the first place.

If the agreement states the right of the inhabitant in Northern Ireland to determine whether they identify themselves as Irish British or both, the same provision cannot require them to revoke something they had decided not to identify with.

It will make a mockery of the agreement.

Like it or not, the Good Friday Agreement didn't change the citizenship laws of either country. This is confirmed in a response to a FOI request I submitted last year: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... ment-45902. Therefore, as noted above, renunciation would be necessary.

Identifying as British or Irish is fine, but, seemingly and understandably, this does not affect the citizenship a person was born with in NI.

[Obie]

That letter states clearly that it does not purport to be authoritative .

I await a Judicial conclusion on the matter.

In any event the UK will have significant difficulties in enforcing this rules on people born after 1983.

The Government will physically have to investigate this for people born after 1983.

In any event a northern Irish born person can simply put Irish and say I have not other citizenship. The Good Friday agreement permits that.
He or she could simply say I am not British and leave the burden on the UK to prove that they are.

It is a complete mess and there will be a huge administrative burden on the UK government.

[chaoclive]

That letter states clearly that it does not purport to be authoritative .

I await a Judicial conclusion on the matter.

In any event the UK will have significant difficulties in enforcing this rules on people born after 1983.

The Government will physically have to investigate this for people born after 1983.

In any event a northern Irish born person can simply put Irish and say I have not other citizenship. The Good Friday agreement permits that.
He or she could simply say I am not British and leave the burden on the UK to prove that they are.

It is a complete mess and there will be a huge administrative burden on the UK government.

Good luck with that.