non-EU spouse unable to provide Registration of Tenancy

[accidentallyeu]

Hi,

I'm in the process of applying for a Residence Card as a non-EU spouse. I sent my application off in January and haven't heard anything. I'm worried because I can't get my landlord to register our tenancies -- this is following emails, phone calls, explanation after explanation that we NEED it. Now I've turned the case over to the Private Residential Tenancies Board to pursue registration - because though I'm on a year lease as a tenant with full rights, I can't make progress.

Obviously this is upsetting my husband and I. He's German, I'm American; we came here because accepted a teaching job, and we had no idea that my status as a resident in the country would be or seem so hard to achieve - that recognition of my treaty rights would hinge on documentation that is out of our control to provide.

My question is: When tenants CAN'T get a Letter of Registration of Tenancy do they ever receive recognition of their Treaty Rights? Will we have to move in order to get the letter from another address? Am I legal to work in the meantime? Do others who have faced similar situations have insight?

I'm also worried about my ability to travel while my case is pending -- should I prepare myself for 6 months or more in which time I can't leave Ireland?

Thanks for any insights.

[jeupsy]

Argh that is annoying.

Do you know why the landlord doesn't want to do it? (I guess the only incentive would be if the want to hide for tenancy from the government not to pay taxes, but in that case if you tell them you will contact the PRTB yourself they should step up as legally they are obliged to register the tenancy and failing to do it on purpose would make them look pretty bad).

I had a similar issue before which was more due to laziness on the side of the estate agent than bad will from the landlord, and luckily after a months of begging him and a letter sent to him which showed how many times he was requested to do it but didn't, he finally did it when I "threatened" to expose his documented lack of professionalism to the PRTB and the landlord.

He actually misspelled my name on the registration (!) and I contacted the PRTB by email to fix it; and they did it but it took more than 3 months ... So I you have to rely on their help it might take a while.

What I would do is:
- "kindly" remind the landlord that not registering the tenancy is a legal requirement for him; and that you absolutely need that document so you are going ask them to give then all the tenancy information yourself (but maybe you have done that already ...)
- send an email to the EU Treaty Rights office to explain the issue and ask them if it is OK to submit the application without the PRTB letters of if they have any other suggestion

Regarding traveling there is no issue since you don't require a visa for Ireland. The only time you will be stuck is when they are doing the initial processing (when you submit your passport). Within a month they will send your passport back and you will get a temporary 6 months residence card.

[ImmigrationLawyer]

I would write to the landlord and the Tenancies Board, sending a copy of each the other, if you know what I mean, and explaining the situation. then, send copies of these letters to the EUTR Section, INIS. You will probably get a letter in reply from the PRTB, send this also to the EUTRSec. They can't refuse the residence card on this basis, don't worry.

[accidentallyeu]

Thanks to both of you for your replies. The good news is that suddenly - after a month of evasion and etc - my landlord emailed and said she had mailed in registration with PTRB. We'll see how that goes.

My passport and all supporting documents are currently in Dublin and they have been for three weeks. I haven't heard anything. I guess that's normal, because it's been less than a month -- but I'm worried because I already had a lot of trouble when I didn't expect it.

The problem was that I moved to Ireland with a plan to visit the US for a month-long stay with my family before my three months in the country were up. I visited the Garda to register on a local level, but this visit went - somehow, strangely - undocumented. So, on this visit, I learned that I couldn't register locally, but had to mail everything to Dublin. Given that the wait time for a passport return could be a month or more, I decided to travel and mail my application for EU Treaty Rights recognition when I returned.

When I re-entered Ireland, the border guard threatened to send me immediately back to London, where I had flown in from, and let them decide if I would be sent to the States. He told me I had no right to work and that he couldn't believe I had never been to the Garda and that he didn't think I should be allowed back in the country. Finally, he let me in, but not without telling me that if I didn't go back to the Garda again within a week, then he would pick me up himself and take me to jail/have me deported.

When I went back to the Garda, the woman working told me that by not applying right away I had potentially jeopardized/complicated my application.

I don't feel like I did anything against regulations, but anyway, the strong, strong reprimand from the border guard has me really worried about this...

[accidentallyeu]

Oh, so that's why I'm worried about my ability to travel - which I sometimes do for teaching jobs - and my ability to work in Ireland.

[jeupsy]

Good that at least the ladlady is doing something ... she could have made the registration online to make it faster and give your registration number immediately, but well I guess you can't complain

So you are curently working in Ireland? If yes it is a bit of a grey area since in theory based on EU laws as the spouse of an EU citizen you are automatically entitled to live ad work here; but in practice the document which testifies that you are entiled to that (Stamp 4 GNIB card) takes a few weeks to obtain - and as you have noticed requires a few docuements which are out of your control.

As for entering Ireland and staying here while the application is being processed, I think there is not issue sincwe you are not visa required (I am not familiar with the registration process which you went though, I assume it is for foreign nationals stayig more than a few weeks - but as soon as your EUTR application is in you clearly won't need that anymore).

Anyhow, the only "borderline" thing you might have done is to start employement. But if this was to be escalated I don't think it could really be held agaisnt you as logn as you indeed qualify for an EUR residance card (basically I think they can only refuse it if they have strong evience of sham marriage or that you are a security threat for Ireland).

I wouldn't worry about anthing else ...

And above all I would submit the EUTR application asap. As soon as they receive it your situation will be 100% clear for the next 6 months and your will be allowed to stay and work here with no question and a document to prove it.

Just one thing to keep in mind: they might take up to a month to send back your passport and Stamp 4 letter after receiving your application.

[accidentallyeu]

Hi Jeupsy,

Thanks for the thoughts on work permission -- that was the impression I had -- that I have a right to work in Ireland in theory, but I need the stamp to confirm that right. I am not working in Ireland. I am considering going back to the States for a teaching job, but I can't accept because I don't know when I'll get my passport back and get sorted here.

My passport is, currently, in Dublin, along with lots of documents and the whole application EUTR Form 1, or whatever it is - minus a letter of registration of tenancy. They have been there for over three weeks now, so it definitely can take a month. Waiting to see if they demand the Letter of Registration of Tenancy and if so, what my status is in the meantime. Waiting to see if I'm somehow in trouble for not really doing anything wrong, etc. !

Well, at this point I'm guessing the border guard just scared the shit out of me in the spirit of another day at the office...

[jeupsy]

No worries - I know be experience that not knowing what is going on and getting contradictory information from official source can be very frustrating

OK ... so except from the PRTB registration letter it looks like you have been doing things by the books, I am not sure what the border control officer was trying to do :-s

If you are not too unlucky and everything else except the PRTB letters was included in the application you sent out, they will probably accept it anyway and send back your passports and Stamp 4 letter, along with a request for the missing documents.

Worst case they will send you everything back and ask you to re-submit the whole application with the PRTB letters included. Given past experiences on this forum it isn't the most likely option, and it would't compromise your application in any way, just delay it by a month.

You'll probably hear from them next week or the following one, but if you want an update you can email them (eutreatyrights@justice.ie) and they usually reply within 2 days - though not always with a detailed answer.

[gisram15]

Hello,

accidentallyeu: I am in a very similar situation, and I just wanted to know what happened in regards to your case or if somebody else can provide me with some insight. I applied for EU1 treaty rights and turned all the documentation in, including a tenancy agreement with my husband's name in it, except anything under my name due to the fact that I had just been here for days. I received an acknowledgement letter and my documents back and in the letter they asked me for rental agreement, PRTB and utility bills under my husband ( EU citizen ) and myself ( applicant ); I guess this was to prove that we are both residing here in Dublin. I now have the same, and am waiting for the PRTB registration confirmation to send that in also. I did not receive anything about my temporary 4 stamp while my application is in process and am currently in a recruiting process for a very good job opportunity. Does anyone know if they will provide me with the temporary stamp 4 after I turn in these documents? Will it take a long time? Or will they not provide me with the temporary stamp 4 until the 6 month process? Can anyone help me with these queries? I am really worried I cannot continue in the job process because I can't work until legally having the stamp 4.

Thank you very much por your help.

[ImmigrationLawyer]

Yes they will have to give you the Stamp 4 when you submit the documents. If they don't keep reminding them.

[gisram15]

Yes they will have to give you the Stamp 4 when you submit the documents. If they don't keep reminding them.

Thank you for your prompt answer ImmigrationLawyer. I will do so. After knowing that my documents have been received by them I will write them an e-mail to know an update of my case. Do you know if a response from them will take a month like the initial application? or due to the fact that it is an open case file and they only need these documents, it can take less?

Thanks again and good day!

[Raymond_123]

Hi People,

I'm new to the forum, although I have been checking this forum before in the past. We have applied for EU4Fam in November 2012, received the EU4 stamp in December 2012, while waiting 6 months for the Eu4Fam card to arrive. One week ago, we have received the documents from the INIS with the... Refusal for our application... Reason: we did not submit the necessary documents requested:

- letter from landlord/agency
- PRTB registration letter
- Utility bills for applicant and eu citizen

We have submitted our rent agreement, registered in both names and a electric ireland bill with both of our names, we left out the PRTB registration letter, as we did not have it, but we didn't wrote this in a letter.

I'm getting the PRTB registrations done and will sent them with above documents to the INIS with the request of review of our application. What is the time frame for their final decision to be made? Do we have to worry for deportation of my wife? My wife's GNIB card has been expired last week. Anyone with experience who can advise us, please do so, as we are living in an uncertainty with our EU passportholding son.