ESC

Click the "allow" button if you want to receive important news and updates from immigrationboards.com


Immigrationboards.com: Immigration, work visa and work permit discussion board

Welcome to immigrationboards.com!

Login Register Do not show

New fee W.E.F 6th April

Archived UK Tier 1 (General) points system forum. This route no longer exists.

Moderators: Casa, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe, CR001, push, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, meself2, geriatrix, Administrator

Locked
varghesejim
Member
Posts: 228
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 2:31 am
India

Re: we should challenge it in court

Post by varghesejim » Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:28 pm

ilr_trauma wrote:we should challenge it in court..this is exploitation
Unfortunately, we can't.

Lets put this into a different perspective. T1 visa is for highly skilled migrants. 1500 pounds for an extension of two years is 750 pounds per year. If one cannot pay this in his/her stay, UKBA can challenge how can he/she be doing a highly skilled job earning a good salary?

However, we might be able to address this differently. This is another example of a flawed immigration policy. T1 migrants are net tax payers unlike many other categories because we have no recourse to public funds. For a minimum of 5 years we just pay tax and NI contributing to the economy in a big way. However, other categories like European migrants might not be net tax payers as their tax contributions might be offset by their benefit claims. What is happening here is putting off the net contributors by exorbitant fee raises and letting the problem exploiting migrants not addressed. The policy is a mess.

If we can gain attention of the media about this failure and if they cover this news, UKBA might rethink next time.

We are bearing the burden of immigration backlash from the government even though we are not the cause of the problem. It is ridiculous.

There is no grounds for challenging the fee raise in court. We might be able to highlight the flaws in the way immigration categories are handled.

Any pointers about how to forward this issue to the media?

Mela
Member
Posts: 122
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:35 pm

Re: we should challenge it in court

Post by Mela » Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:29 am

varghesejim wrote:
ilr_trauma wrote:we should challenge it in court..this is exploitation
Unfortunately, we can't.

Lets put this into a different perspective. T1 visa is for highly skilled migrants. 1500 pounds for an extension of two years is 750 pounds per year. If one cannot pay this in his/her stay, UKBA can challenge how can he/she be doing a highly skilled job earning a good salary?

However, we might be able to address this differently. This is another example of a flawed immigration policy. T1 migrants are net tax payers unlike many other categories because we have no recourse to public funds. For a minimum of 5 years we just pay tax and NI contributing to the economy in a big way. However, other categories like European migrants might not be net tax payers as their tax contributions might be offset by their benefit claims. What is happening here is putting off the net contributors by exorbitant fee raises and letting the problem exploiting migrants not addressed. The policy is a mess.

If we can gain attention of the media about this failure and if they cover this news, UKBA might rethink next time.

We are bearing the burden of immigration backlash from the government even though we are not the cause of the problem. It is ridiculous.

There is no grounds for challenging the fee raise in court. We might be able to highlight the flaws in the way immigration categories are handled.

Any pointers about how to forward this issue to the media?
I see your point and totally agree that non-EU immigrants are in absolutely unfovarauble position, but i dont think there is anyway to play around this matter. EU immigrants are protected by EU law and legally entitled to benefits. UK is a member of EU and all messy EU system is a system of counter-benefits at a large scale. With regards to non-EU immigrants, point based immigrants are considered temporarily workers and we are not protected. we may or we may not stay on in the UK so UK gov-t dont have to provide benefits for us, they do provide free basic NHS medical care which is believed to be sufficient.

Despite the despair of the fee rise, i try to look objective on the matter. If the immigrants dont have savings of lets say 5K to cover a fee, is there a high chance this immigrant will be eocnomically inactive and in fact draingin the system claiming the benefits once they becaome permamnent here? Yes, the chance are high. So the gov-t makes eveerything possible to scartch out those immigrants form applying for ILR or extendign their stay in the UK.

abhisheks9
Member of Standing
Posts: 266
Joined: Fri May 11, 2012 10:16 am
Location: Aberdeen
India

Post by abhisheks9 » Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:26 pm

UKBA Reforms Petetion.
guys something of interest.
Not exactly what we are looking for, but something close.
http://www.tntmagazine.com/expat-life/v ... ba-reforms

zabiela
Junior Member
Posts: 69
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 12:29 pm

Re: we should challenge it in court

Post by zabiela » Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:37 am

Mela wrote:
varghesejim wrote:
ilr_trauma wrote:we should challenge it in court..this is exploitation
Unfortunately, we can't.

Lets put this into a different perspective. T1 visa is for highly skilled migrants. 1500 pounds for an extension of two years is 750 pounds per year. If one cannot pay this in his/her stay, UKBA can challenge how can he/she be doing a highly skilled job earning a good salary?

However, we might be able to address this differently. This is another example of a flawed immigration policy. T1 migrants are net tax payers unlike many other categories because we have no recourse to public funds. For a minimum of 5 years we just pay tax and NI contributing to the economy in a big way. However, other categories like European migrants might not be net tax payers as their tax contributions might be offset by their benefit claims. What is happening here is putting off the net contributors by exorbitant fee raises and letting the problem exploiting migrants not addressed. The policy is a mess.

If we can gain attention of the media about this failure and if they cover this news, UKBA might rethink next time.

We are bearing the burden of immigration backlash from the government even though we are not the cause of the problem. It is ridiculous.

There is no grounds for challenging the fee raise in court. We might be able to highlight the flaws in the way immigration categories are handled.

Any pointers about how to forward this issue to the media?
I see your point and totally agree that non-EU immigrants are in absolutely unfovarauble position, but i dont think there is anyway to play around this matter. EU immigrants are protected by EU law and legally entitled to benefits. UK is a member of EU and all messy EU system is a system of counter-benefits at a large scale. With regards to non-EU immigrants, point based immigrants are considered temporarily workers and we are not protected. we may or we may not stay on in the UK so UK gov-t dont have to provide benefits for us, they do provide free basic NHS medical care which is believed to be sufficient.

Despite the despair of the fee rise, i try to look objective on the matter. If the immigrants dont have savings of lets say 5K to cover a fee, is there a high chance this immigrant will be eocnomically inactive and in fact draingin the system claiming the benefits once they becaome permamnent here? Yes, the chance are high. So the gov-t makes eveerything possible to scartch out those immigrants form applying for ILR or extendign their stay in the UK.

I dont think thats the case, i think the day you set foot in EU you are protected by certain law and you do have rights, citizen or not..What do you think happended to HSMP applicants..they challenged the UKBA in the court of law and won..per my understanding HSMP applicants still pay the same fee as their last application, this isnt the case for T1 applicants at all and thankfully to them (and the justice system) we are measured against same criteria as our initial application..So, bottomline is we can challenge the policies set by UKBA which are unjust and unreasonable..

abhisheks9
Member of Standing
Posts: 266
Joined: Fri May 11, 2012 10:16 am
Location: Aberdeen
India

Re: we should challenge it in court

Post by abhisheks9 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:54 am

zabiela wrote:
Mela wrote:
varghesejim wrote:
ilr_trauma wrote:we should challenge it in court..this is exploitation
Unfortunately, we can't.

Lets put this into a different perspective. T1 visa is for highly skilled migrants. 1500 pounds for an extension of two years is 750 pounds per year. If one cannot pay this in his/her stay, UKBA can challenge how can he/she be doing a highly skilled job earning a good salary?

However, we might be able to address this differently. This is another example of a flawed immigration policy. T1 migrants are net tax payers unlike many other categories because we have no recourse to public funds. For a minimum of 5 years we just pay tax and NI contributing to the economy in a big way. However, other categories like European migrants might not be net tax payers as their tax contributions might be offset by their benefit claims. What is happening here is putting off the net contributors by exorbitant fee raises and letting the problem exploiting migrants not addressed. The policy is a mess.

If we can gain attention of the media about this failure and if they cover this news, UKBA might rethink next time.

We are bearing the burden of immigration backlash from the government even though we are not the cause of the problem. It is ridiculous.

There is no grounds for challenging the fee raise in court. We might be able to highlight the flaws in the way immigration categories are handled.

Any pointers about how to forward this issue to the media?
I see your point and totally agree that non-EU immigrants are in absolutely unfovarauble position, but i dont think there is anyway to play around this matter. EU immigrants are protected by EU law and legally entitled to benefits. UK is a member of EU and all messy EU system is a system of counter-benefits at a large scale. With regards to non-EU immigrants, point based immigrants are considered temporarily workers and we are not protected. we may or we may not stay on in the UK so UK gov-t dont have to provide benefits for us, they do provide free basic NHS medical care which is believed to be sufficient.

Despite the despair of the fee rise, i try to look objective on the matter. If the immigrants dont have savings of lets say 5K to cover a fee, is there a high chance this immigrant will be eocnomically inactive and in fact draingin the system claiming the benefits once they becaome permamnent here? Yes, the chance are high. So the gov-t makes eveerything possible to scartch out those immigrants form applying for ILR or extendign their stay in the UK.

I dont think thats the case, i think the day you set foot in EU you are protected by certain law and you do have rights, citizen or not..What do you think happended to HSMP applicants..they challenged the UKBA in the court of law and won..per my understanding HSMP applicants still pay the same fee as their last application, this isnt the case for T1 applicants at all and thankfully to them (and the justice system) we are measured against same criteria as our initial application..So, bottomline is we can challenge the policies set by UKBA which are unjust and unreasonable..
@zabiela
you are a bright star among gloomy people.:D
love your energy, confidence and positive outlook.
You are right, Amit Kapadia is the person who headed HSMP forum/group and fought legally, but point was totally different. It was regarding no. of years eligibility to get ILR.
But again your point is right, as HSMP holders pay significantly lower fees than Tier-1.

fs05
Newly Registered
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:06 pm

Post by fs05 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:09 pm

I would suggest lets write to our relevant MPs to take this matter up. Few points to consider:

- That we are fine with the increase going up in line with the inflation
- How does the increase justify for dependents when most of them are young children who cannot even work
- What is the difference btw a dependent of a EU national or someone from out of the EU, on human grounds all are equal then how does it justify the increase of 70% ?

fs05
Newly Registered
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:06 pm

Post by fs05 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:44 pm

THIS IS WHAT I AM SENDING OUT:

Dear Sir,

I would like to bring to your attention an issue which has been of a concern to a lot of people who are on the Tier 1 migrant visa. Most of us are hardworking skilled workers falling in the higher tax bracket rate and also do not have any recourse to public funds.

The UKBA has recently proposed increase of fee for all categories of visas and most of them fall in line with the inflation rate of 3% as quoted by the immigration minister. The statemet is as follows:

The proposals laid in Parliament today and on 14 March, subject to Parliamentary approval, will take effect from 6 April 2013.

Immigration Minister, Mark Harper said:

'These increases are mostly in line with inflation and will ensure that the UK continues to welcome the brightest and the best. It is only right that those who use and benefit from the immigration system should contribute more than the UK taxpayer.'

WEBSITE: http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publicatio ... rging-wms/

However the increase of the dependents (of tier 1) fee is from £750 per dependent to £1159, which does not justify the huge increase ?
In my case we are 1 main appl. + 3 dependents and if i opt to go in person at the UKBA it costs me £6522 (1545 + 1159 *3 + pp fee of in person is £375) for a 2 year extension. Just around 3-4 years ago the dependent fee was £250 and the main applicant fee was £800, a rise of more than 100% is overly unjustified given that most of us are hardworking high earners paying 40% taxes and have no recourse to public funds and are applied restrictions of a nature which make us live our every day lives anxious for e.g even get driving related penalty points can impact our immigration decision.

Whereas we are all granted visa on a highly skilled evaluation and not on our driving tests.

However that mentioned I would request you to please take up our case and fight for this unjustified increase in dependent visa fee when this is presented in parliament on 14th March, we are happy with a 3% increase. (the main applicant fee was 1500 and its now raised to 1545 which is 3% and makes sense to be inline with inflation)

Mela
Member
Posts: 122
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:35 pm

Post by Mela » Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:51 pm

fs05 wrote:I would suggest lets write to our relevant MPs to take this matter up. Few points to consider:

- That we are fine with the increase going up in line with the inflation
- How does the increase justify for dependents when most of them are young children who cannot even work
- What is the difference btw a dependent of a EU national or someone from out of the EU, on human grounds all are equal then how does it justify the increase of 70% ?
-they can argue they increased the fee because of the increasing costs of dealing wiht the applications its not alaways about the infaltion

-deoendants are dependant on main applicant, who is working, so i dont see the point here.

-EU nationals dont need a visa they dont pay visa fee, so im not sure why you mention it. anyways even if we are equal on human grounds, EU nationals have priviledges on soc ec grounds which is justified by the fact that EU is one economic zonne. Also, how does incresing visa fee relate to the arguments based on human rights, im not sure....

If you guys really want to suceed in your compaign you need to be more reasonable and need have a set of arguments to justify your thinking.

Saying that fee is high because i just think it is high and I dont want to pay will not bring you very far

fs05
Newly Registered
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:06 pm

Post by fs05 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:24 pm

i wrote dependents of EU nationals

Mela
Member
Posts: 122
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:35 pm

Post by Mela » Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:28 pm

fs05 wrote:i wrote dependents of EU nationals
ok it diesnt matter i still dont see the point. what exactly you try to compare

YOu could well argue for example that the service standars are below expectations so thee increase in price correspondent to decreses of the level of service provided is not justified.

But given that they siginificantly improved the PBS visas processing times in the last few months this will not bring the claim very far either

fs05
Newly Registered
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:06 pm

Post by fs05 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:58 pm

I have not posted here to create an argument , but if we all write to our local MPs and tell them this is going to be presented in parliament on mar 14 atleast there is a probability that it might come down a bit if not back to £750 / dep.

I mean lets not be pessimistic and try our level best efforts to deliver a positive outcome. Collectively we can make a difference.

intelinside
Junior Member
Posts: 70
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:44 am
Pakistan

Post by intelinside » Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:18 pm

I think this is a good start but we need to write more arguments to stand with any chance to be successful.

I am just reading the full details of Mr. Mark Harper's ministerial statement at http://www.publications.parliament.uk/p ... 2520000613 in which he has given arguments in support of this fee increase that we must respond to.

Particularly, this paragraph:
For certain application categories, we will continue to set fees higher than the administrative cost to reflect their value to successful applicants. This helps to provide resources to run the UK immigration system and enables the agency to set lower fees elsewhere in support of wider Government objectives to attract those businesses, workers, students and visitors who most benefit the UK.
I think the way he has presented it, I see no other MP will object. But if we can give some numbers then we may get some support from our MP.
fs05 wrote:THIS IS WHAT I AM SENDING OUT:

Dear Sir,

I would like to bring to your attention an issue which has been of a concern to a lot of people who are on the Tier 1 migrant visa. Most of us are hardworking skilled workers falling in the higher tax bracket rate and also do not have any recourse to public funds...cont

Mela
Member
Posts: 122
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:35 pm

Post by Mela » Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:59 pm

fs05 wrote:I have not posted here to create an argument , but if we all write to our local MPs and tell them this is going to be presented in parliament on mar 14 atleast there is a probability that it might come down a bit if not back to £750 / dep.

I mean lets not be pessimistic and try our level best efforts to deliver a positive outcome. Collectively we can make a difference.
sorry, i was not trying to argue either, im T1 immihrant myself, i was just trying to be objective and skimmimg through all the posts here i dont see any arguments to put up against UKBA fee hike...despite the fact i personally oppose it too as i dont want to pay high fee obviously.

zabiela
Junior Member
Posts: 69
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 12:29 pm

Post by zabiela » Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:31 pm

So what this is basically saying is Tier 1 migrants are their cash cows and are responsible to cover the deficit (that their colleagues have created and widened over the years). Why is it the responsibility of T1 migrants to provide such support? We are contributing our fair share in the form of taxes without claiming any benefits which essentially mean we are contributing that much to the economy, UKBA included..

I am not buying any of what the statement says. The sole purpose of this and every (exponential) fee increase is to discourage applicants from applying which will ultimately help Tories achieve their ‘Tens of thousands’ net migrants target before the next parliament AND generate additional revenue while doing so. Period.

..How could anyone explain £1800 for admin cost plus misc, when the average time a cw spend on an application is say an hour or so? Tier 1 fee is already, by far the highest among all the immi categories

fs05
Newly Registered
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:06 pm

Post by fs05 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:20 pm

And when the processing is only of the main applicant , I mean the dependents do not have any points and neither are they assessed, I have gone into a PEO and they spend upto 2 hours per application for the main applicant fine agreed they are charging £1545 but for dependents they are virtually not doing any checking / assessment apart from the fact that we provide proof of a relationship. So whats the administrative cost of that ? or how so ever they justify !
I would say write to the MPs , what will happen lets say is that when they sit down to debate in the parliament maybe our relevant mP's will remember our emails and they might take up as an argument. Rem. the parliamentarians still think objectively and they can argue with the immi. mnst. how does he justify it, plus not all ministers oppose migration so i would suggest no harm in shooting it out, but do not do it at the last minute as they would never get time to read it. Send it today or tom , so they can have a look at it over the next 2-3 days.

thanks
F

intelinside
Junior Member
Posts: 70
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:44 am
Pakistan

Post by intelinside » Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:38 pm

You are right but try to give solid arguments so that your MP can argue with Mr. Harper.

I would suggest that we include comparisons in our email to give how grave the increase is. For example,

The current fee £1500 is increasing to £1545, a 2.91% increase in line with inflation which seems appropriate.

For a dependent, it is going to increase to £1159 which is an increase of 35.29% from their current fee of £750 and 71.07% of the Unit Price of £336.

A person with 1 dependent will be paying £1545+£1159=£2704 which is equivalent to almost a month's salary for a 40% tax payer and almost 2 months of an average salaried person in UK.

These are just my suggestions but I think we must write to our MPs. If they are from Labour then this can go in our favour more :)

Also don't forget to mention that you are on electoral list and voted for this MP last time :)

To find your MP, put your post code here : http://findyourmp.parliament.uk/
fs05 wrote:And when the processing is only of the main applicant , I mean the dependents do not have any points and neither are they assessed, I have gone into a PEO and they spend upto 2 hours per application for the main applicant fine agreed they are charging £1545 but for dependents they are virtually not doing any checking / assessment apart from the fact that we provide proof of a relationship. So whats the administrative cost of that ? or how so ever they justify !
I would say write to the MPs , what will happen lets say is that when they sit down to debate in the parliament maybe our relevant mP's will remember our emails and they might take up as an argument. Rem. the parliamentarians still think objectively and they can argue with the immi. mnst. how does he justify it, plus not all ministers oppose migration so i would suggest no harm in shooting it out, but do not do it at the last minute as they would never get time to read it. Send it today or tom , so they can have a look at it over the next 2-3 days.

thanks
F

User avatar
ram80
Member
Posts: 153
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2010 3:32 pm
United Kingdom

Time for HSMP Forum Lawsuit #2???

Post by ram80 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:41 pm

I wrote last year to the Office of Fair Trading (OFT) complaining about this exploitation by the UKBA.

-----------
Hi

I am a taxpayer and work in the UK as an IT Consultant. I hold a Tier 1 (General) Visa issued by the UK Border Agency that will come up for renewal on ----

The UKBA is a not-for-profit entity and incurs only a relevant unit cost of £181 for Tier 1 - PEO Main (General), as page 5 of the immigration minister's statement on their website shows, but it charges £1800 which is horribly inflated -- see http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... b-2012.pdf

I believe that the UKBA is abusing its monopoly position in the market by charging excessive fees for certain types of visas such as mine. I would need to renew my visa every two years, I will need to pay the UKBA whatever it charges, irrespective of whether such a charge is unfairly inflated or not.

I therefore would like advice from the OFT on how I can save myself from this pernicious exploitation by this monopolist service provider, and is there anything at all the OFT can do to investigate the legality & fairness of these inflated prices.

Thanks
----------

They replied as follows:


----------

Thank you for your email of 29 August 2012 regarding your complaint about the fees charged for the Tier 1 (General) Visa by the UK Border Agency (UKBA). We have noted your concerns regarding the matter and will respond as follows:

By way of background, the mission of the Office of Fair Trading (OFT) is to make markets work well for consumers. We achieve this by promoting and protecting consumer interests throughout the UK, while ensuring that businesses are fair and competitive. Our primary duties involve the enforcement of competition law, and the application of consumer protection legislation in respect of matters that adversely affect the collective interests of UK consumers.

As you may be aware, the main law covering competition in the UK is the Competition Act 1998 (the Act). In brief, the Act contains two prohibitions. The Chapter I prohibition prohibits price fixing or other anti-competitive agreements which prevent, restrict or distort competition. The Chapter II prohibition prohibits conduct by companies which amounts to an abuse of a dominant position.

Turning to your enquiry, we should explain that the Act applies to all bodies that are acting as 'undertakings'. The term 'undertaking' is not defined under the Treaty on the Function of the European Union (the TFEU) or the Act, but its meaning has been set out in Community law. The term covers any natural or legal person engaged in economic activity, regardless of its legal status and the way in which it is financed. It includes companies, firms, businesses, partnerships, individuals operating as sole traders, agricultural co-operatives, associations of undertakings (e.g. trade associations), non-profit making organisations and (in some circumstances) public entities that offer goods or services on a given market.

In making this assessment, the key issue is the nature of the activity being undertaken rather than the legal form or status of the body that carries it out. Thus, a body may be an undertaking (and therefore subject to competition law) in respect of some of its activities, but not others. This distinction will depend on the facts of each case.

The distinction between public functions and economic activities involving the provision of a good or service on a market will depend on the facts of each case. Where a body acts in a purely administrative capacity and merely regulates the provision of goods and services on a market, it has been considered not to be offering or supplying such goods or services.1 That such administrative activity is undertaken in exchange for a fee will not necessarily render the activity 'economic'.

It is not clear based on the information provided in relation to your concerns that the UKBA in question is engaged in economic activity rather than acting as an administrative body. It is therefore unlikely to be considered to be acting as an undertaking. Given this position, it is not clear that the conduct you have described would be caught by the Act.

In view of the above, the OFT is unable to take action in relation to your complaint at this time. However, we appreciate the time you have taken in bringing this matter to our attention.

-------------

I replied as follows:

------------

Thank you for your response to my email sent to me on 05-Sept-2012 bearing the reference number ---.

You have concluded your response with the assertion that since it is not clear to the OFT whether the activity in question is economic or not, it is therefore unlikely to be considered to be acting as an undertaking and thereby unclear if the issue would be caught by the UK & EU competition law.

This apparently means that if the 'economic' nature of an activity is unclear to the OFT, the OFT will treat it as 'not economic'; which is an unjustifiable stand.

I believe the OFT should rather determine if the activity in question is of a wholly social nature, and if the exclusively social nature of the activity is not established, it needs to be treated as an economic activity, and once the OFT has determined this, it is upto the UKBA to show in what conceivable way it is exempt from UK & EU competition law in respect of the supply of its services pertaining to the issue of UK visas.

To establish very clearly that the issue of visas by the UKBA is an economic activity, I would like to draw to your attention your publication OFT1389 titled "Public bodies and competition law - A guide to the application of the Competition Act 1998" published in December 2011, which I found at your website http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/ca-and ... FT1389.pdf

According to this document, it is clear that:

1. The UK Border Agency (UKBA) is a public body established under the Home Office for administering the border controls for the UK Government.

2. The same public body, in addition to the exercise its public power of administering border controls mentioned above, has been supplying its services of issuing UK visas to the public at large for which it has published unit prices.

3. It is open to the world at large to avail of the UKBA's visa services by paying the published prices as appropriate. The UKBA would refuse to perform the services if the aforesaid price was not paid in advance by its customers.

4. There exists a market of potential customers who utilize the services of the UKBA to apply for UK visas. I am one of those customers.

5. The UKBA in turn utilizes the services of a private company called VFS Global to perform a part of this service worldwide, and therefore this service (of issuing visas) can conceivably be performed wholly or partly by private companies. According to section 2.24 of the guide to competition law published by the OFT:

Where private sector companies have in fact carried out the activity in question in the past, this may indicate that it is not an activity that must necessarily be carried out by a public authority, and therefore that the activity is 'economic'.
Similarly, the fact that a government or public body decides not to allow private sector companies to provide a certain good or service (and, for example, instead provides it wholly in-house) does not necessarily mean that that activity is not 'economic'.

6. The activity of issuing UK visas very evidently is not exclusively of a 'social nature'. Therefore it is an economic activity.

Therefore the UKBA is an undertaking in respect of this activity, and I would like the OFT to take cognizance of the applicability of UK & EU competition law and to action the case accordingly. If not, can you please let me know why the OFT is unable to act in the light of the above facts.

Thanks.

-----------

They responded to the above as follows:


-----------

Thank you for your further email of 7 September regarding the fees charged for the Tier 1 (General) Visa by the UK Border Agency (UKBA).

We note that the UKBA works with a commercial company, VFS Global (VFS), which manages visa application centres in India. However, this appears to be an administrative service involved in assisting applicants in submitting their applications. It is clear from the VFS website that it has no influence over the decisions made in relation to applications. Accordingly, this does not demonstrate that the UKBA’s core activities could be carried out by private sector companies.

As explained in our guidance document Public Bodies and Competition Law, the broad issues to determine in identifying economic activities are:

whether the body in question is offering or supplying a good or service as opposed to, for example, exercising a public power, and if so whether that offer or supply is of a commercial – rather than an exclusively ‘social’- nature

In considering visa applications, the UKBA is exercising a public power by implementing UK immigration policy according to its statutory function. Accordingly, it does not appear that this would be considered an economic activity.

While we note your additional comments, therefore, our position remains that it is unlikely that the UKBA would be considered to be acting as an undertaking for the purposes of the Competition Act 1998 (the Act). In view of this, we will not be taking further action in relation to your concerns at this time.

I am sorry to send you what I know will be a disappointing response, but I hope I have clarified our position in respect to the complaint you have made.

---------

I replied to the above as follows

----------

Thank you for responding to my earlier emails, however I would like to point out that the crux of my query has still not been addressed by the OFT.

Making visa decisions is not an economic activity, I do agree.

In fact the decision to grant/refuse a visa (which is the exercise of the public power) by itself costs nothing. The charge of visa fees has no impact on the decision making power of the UKBA, and is therefore wholly irrelevant to the exercise of its public power.

The fee charged is not for making the visa decision, but precisely & substantially to cover the incidental administrative costs towards the economic services such as those performed by the private company VFS.

The OFT is therefore wrong in its assumption that the fee charged by the UKBA is to exercise a public power.

In a single transaction, on a charge of £1800, nearly 90% of the amount (£1619) is an economic surplus as the unit cost of providing the service is only £181, as published by UKBA. Therefore the visa fee serves no social purpose, it is purely an economic charge.

Please explain to me how the charge made by the UKBA can be inferred by the OFT to be "exclusively social", and therefore not economic, when everything it does points towards the activity being charged being substantially (if not wholly) economic.

-----------

They responded

-----------

Your complaint against the United Kingdom Border Agency (UKBA)

Thank you for your email of 27 September, further to your complaint that UKBA charges excessive fees for Tier 1 (General) visas, such as the one you required to be renewed.

The issues you raised have been passed to me for further consideration.

You disagreed with our assessment, that in exercising its public power, UKBA would be unlikely to be acting as an undertaking for the purposes of the Competition Act 1998 (the Act).

We should explain however, that even if UKBA were to be considered as acting as an undertaking for the purposes of the Act, in order to determine whether we would investigate further we would need to consider whether the issue raised would fall within our administrative priorities. I will explain this process further below.

The OFT receives thousands of complaints a year and cannot pursue them all. We therefore focus our efforts and finite resources on deterring and influencing behaviour that poses the greatest threat to consumer welfare. In exercising this discretion we assess a complaint with reference to our published prioritisation principles.

Our prioritisation principles explain that we only intervene when we can improve the way in which markets work. In seeking to target both our resources and enforcement strategy, the OFT needs to consider a range of factors, including impact on consumers, strategic significance, risk and resources within a market wide context.

We have considered your complaint against our prioritisation principles in the round, and do not consider it appropriate to use our resources to make further enquiries into this matter. Accordingly, we will not be taking any further action in relation to your complaint at this time. This is an administrative priority decision and does not reflect a substantive view on the merits of the case.

We realise that the above will be disappointing news for you, but we nevertheless appreciate the time you have taken in bringing your complaint to our attention.

------

This was the end of the story, but I urge you all to write to the OFT again as charging above cost (i.e. a profit motive) makes the activity a 'trade' and the UKBA should be reined in by the OFT.
Last edited by ram80 on Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
This post does not contain legal advice.

User avatar
ram80
Member
Posts: 153
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2010 3:32 pm
United Kingdom

Post by ram80 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:14 pm

When I realized the OFT was not going to do anything about my complaint, I wrote to my MP as follows:

------
Dear Mr. ---

I'm one of your constituents, and as a commonwealth citizen from ---, I am also a registered voter. I am a taxpayer and work here as an IT Consultant. I hold a Tier 1 (General) Visa issued by the UKBA that will come up for renewal on ---.

I am writing to you to express my concern that the Immigration Minister Mr. Damien Green, in laying down the statement announcing increase in fees of visas in parliament on 9th February 2012, seeks to charge me £1800 to renew my visa. As you will agree, this is horribly inflated, for the UKBA is a not-for-profit entity and incurs only a relevant unit cost of £181 for Tier 1 - PEO Main (General), as page 5 of the minister's statement shows -- http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... b-2012.pdf

In announcing these fee increases, the minister stated "It is only fair that those who use and benefit from the immigration system contribute a higher share of the cost of running it - reducing the burden on the UK taxpayer."

However the minister seeks to rip-off me, the immigrant tax payer with these arbitrary fee increases; as he seeks to cross-subsidize visas for short term visitors and transit visitors (among others) who are not taxpayers by charging them below cost. I therefore believe that his statement is hollow and devoid of substance, and he is doing the exact opposite of his stated intention.

He has kept Parliament and the British public (and immigrants) in the dark by not spelling out the rationale behind this discriminating treatment of profiteering from certain types of visas while incurring a loss on other visa types. This is not just a question of fairness, it has implications that impinge upon the legality of discriminating against certain kinds of visa holders.

I fervently hope I can see some justice through your help on this front.

----------

My MP Mr. GB sent my letter to the immigration minister (Mr. Harper who had replaced Mr. Green by this time)

The Immigration minister replied to my MP as follows


----------

Dear Mr. GB

Thank you for your letter of --- on behalf of Mr. RS about the fees for immigration and nationality applications.

The UK Border Agency has confirmed that from 6th April, the fee for a Tier 1 General extension application made in the UK is £1500 if an application is made by post, or £1800 if an application is made in person at a UK Border Agency Public Enquiry Office. The UK Border Agency sets fees for immigration and nationality applications to reflect the benefits and entitlements given to an individual on the grant of a successful application, as well as administrative costs of processing an application. For example, the benefits of a successful Tier 1 general extension application includes the ability to retain unrestricted access to the UK employment market and associated healthcare, education and social care benefits. A successful applicant may also bring dependents to the UK who would then also have full access to the UK labour market. After completing the extension period, a successful applicant qualifies to apply for permanent residency in the UK. The fee for a Tier 1 general extension application is therefore set above the administrative cost of processing an application to reflect these benefits.

The UK Border Agency recognizes and values the contribution that many hard working migrants make to the UK economy. That is why it has made changes to the immigration routes available to exceptionally talented and highly skilled workers, investors and entrepreneurs wanting to work in the UK. The Tier 1 general route is now a restricted route, only open to a limited number of migrants who previously came to the UK on this visa, who now want to extend their original period of stay. At the same time, the UK Border Agency is expanding other Tier 1 routes such as the Tier 1 Investor, Entrepreneur and Exceptional Talent routes to continue to attract high value migrants to the UK, as migrants who qualify to apply through these routes are most likely to boost the UK economy. In addition to these existing Tier 1 routes, the UK Border Agency is introducing a new Tier 1 category for Graduate Entrepreneurs.

Income generated from fees contributes directly to help raise the revenue required to fund the overall UK immigration system, with the remainder met from general taxation. In the current economic climate, the UK Border Agency aims to reduce the overall contribution of funding that comes from general taxation and increase the proportion of income generated from fees. In this finanical year, the immigration system is expected to cost over £2 billion and it is anticipated that approximately 37% of these costs will be recovered through fees on visas, nationality and immigration applications.

----------

My MP asked me to meet him if I was dissatisfied with the Immigration minister's above reply.

I have booked an appointment to meet him the day after tomorrow (8th March) and had prepared to submit the following before I saw this year's increase in fees today


-----------

Dear Sir,

I wrote to you about my concerns at the excessive visa fees charged by the UK Border Agency (UKBA) for ‘Tier 1 General’ visa extensions. You were kind enough to forward me the Immigration Minister Mr Harper’s reply. I thank you for granting me an appointment today to explain this further.

Mr Harper confirmed in his reply that the fee for a ‘Tier 1 General’visa extension application is £1,800 when made at a UKBA Public Enquiry Office (PEO), and £1500 when made by post. There is a further £1,800 that I would need to spend for my wife and child’s visa extensions as they are my dependents. I would therefore need to pay the UKBA £3600 for an hour’s ‘box-ticking’ work at Lunar House, Croydon early next year. The corresponding administrative cost incurred by the UKBA for my visais £181 only, as clarified atwww.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/documents/news/wms-fees-feb-2012.pdf

It is debatable if an hour’s administrative work can cost the UKBA £181, but it goes without saying that charging £1800 for the same iscompletely unreasonable. My dependents get their visa extensions without any additional effort, but the UKBA charges a further £1800, regardless.

The minister says these excessive fees are justified by the following:

1. My visa offersme benefits and entitlements such as allowing gainful employment in the UK and access to healthcare, education and social care benefits.

2. Income generated from fees contributes directly to help raise the revenue required to fund the overall UK immigration system, with the remainder met from general taxation, and in the current economic climate, the UKBA aims to reduce the overall contribution of funding that comes from general taxation and increase the proportion of income generated from fees.

As you will see from the below, this is not just unfair and dishonest, but also unlawful:

a. The Immigration Minister’s contention that the excessive fees are in lieu of benefits the visa brings me is dishonest, for the simple reason that the UKBA classifies my ‘Tier 1 General’ visa as a ‘High Value Migrant’ visa, which means I am of greater economic benefit to the UK than vice versa. Therefore this is a dishonest excuse to justify an unlawful levy.

b. The visa fee is entirely arbitrary. There is nothing that prevents the Home Office from continuing to unjustifiably increase the visa fees further to £3,000 or £5,000, to my detriment.The fact remains apparent that 90% of this fee is a disguised taxdesigned to supplant general taxation, and the minister has admitted as much already.

c. The UKBorder Agency has no legal authority to generate additional revenue as a substitute for general taxation by levying excessive fees.A visa fee can only be used to recover the actual administrative cost of processing my visa. Any other‘unlegislated’ uses of my visa fee are unlawful and discriminatory.

d. Being employed in London, I am a taxpayer myself, paying an income tax of over £17000 and National Insurance of over £4500 in the current tax year.This is what I lawfully give back to the UK exchequer for the privilege of being able to earn my living in the UK. I can’t be charged anything else separately for this privilege as it would amount to facial discrimination (more fully described below).

e. My Tier 1 (General) visa does not allow me to access public funds, which are available to other resident tax payers. “No recourse to public funds” is one of the conditions for my visa. I’m highlighting this,not to demand access to public funds, because that is not my intention, but only to dispel any possiblemisconception one might have, that Tier 1 (General) visa holders have equal rights as the rest of the population. They already do not have equal rights despite paying the same taxes as the general British taxpayer. To be further required to pay ten times the actual cost of processing one’s visa for being what the UKBA itself brands a ‘High Value Migrant’,is therefore to add insult to injury.

f. The UKBA as far as I am aware is a public authority set up not for my personal benefit but for the benefit of the UK as a whole. It isnot my individual responsibility to disproportionately fund the immigration system by paying extortionate fees; any claims to the contrary are discriminatory, unjust & dishonest.

g. It is a fact (already indicated in my first letter to you that you’ve forwarded to the immigration minister) that short term visitors are charged £78, when the actual cost of these visas is £140 each. When the UKBA can afford to charge nearly half the actual cost for such visas, the beneficiaries of which pay no taxes in the UK, I challenge the immigration minister’s contention that the UKBA can’t afford to charge me, a UK taxpayer,a visa fee at no more than the actual unit cost.

h. Overcharging me for my visa with an aim of generating revenue for the UKBA (as Mr Harper’s letter states) and with a stated aim of subsidizing the general taxpayer,amounts to levying a disguised tax on me, and is an explicit denialof my right to equality under the Equality Act 2010. Section 9(1) of the Equality Act 2010 includes ‘Nationality’ and ‘Ethnic or national origins’ within the definition of ‘Race’ (which is a protected characteristic for the purpose of anti-discrimination law), the fact being that all Tier 1 (General) visa holders are necessarily non-British & non-EU nationals.It is my case that taxing me (a non-British national) indirectly through these fees arbitrarily set above cost, to the benefit of general taxpayers who are British& EU nationals, amounts to targeting me based on my nationality which therefore is a form of facial discrimination under Section 13 of the Equality Act 2010. I will therefore be forced to seek legal remedy in a court of law if the Home Office refuses to redress this potentmiscarriage of my right to equality.

I thank you again for adequately representing me in this matter, and for your appointment today.

Yours Sincerely
RS

--------

I am going to modify my letter above to reflect the further increases announced now. We should all first complain to our MPs on the above lines, and also be prepared to file a collective action lawsuit if we are serious about this whole affair. I trust the courts better than the Government to enforce the law in all its fairness in this country
Last edited by ram80 on Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
This post does not contain legal advice.

User avatar
ram80
Member
Posts: 153
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2010 3:32 pm
United Kingdom

Post by ram80 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:34 pm

To those who say we have no grounds to contest this in court, apart from my points above, also consider the following:

Last year, the Home Office published a statement (http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... b-2012.pdf) saying the cost of renewing a Tier 1 General visa is £181 for the UKBA.

Now the published statement (http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publicatio ... iew=Binary) says the same cost is £336.

How did the UKBA have this horrible nearly 200% increase in actual cost in less than a year unless the UKBA is doing something fishy that it tries to pass off as a cost of processing your visa?
varghesejim wrote:Lets put this into a different perspective. T1 visa is for highly skilled migrants. 1500 pounds for an extension of two years is 750 pounds per year. If one cannot pay this in his/her stay, UKBA can challenge how can he/she be doing a highly skilled job earning a good salary?
One can earn £100000 per year and spend £95000, this cannot be the Government's reason to justify a visa fee of £4988 for main applicant and 2 dependents. After 1 year this visa fee may increase to £7500 or £10000, where will it stop?

The UKBA is not a 'for-profit' entity to charge whatever it likes, it is a not-for-profit public organization that has to charge a fair price for its services. If it is a trading entity operating for profit, it would still be a monopoly which is abusing its monopolistic position to fleece us, its customers.

The Govt is using visa fees to tax highly skilled immigrants disproportionately and to use this as a way to drive them out of the UK to look good to their voters, and the recent visa fee increases for the last few years is sufficient evidence of this tactic.

This is in my opinion facial discrimination by the government. You may say "this is discrimination, but how is it facial?". Read my 2nd post above.

Also see http://www.yourrights.org.uk/yourrights ... index.html which says that a public authority cannot discriminate when providing a public service. Charging a disguised tax to particular class of visa applicants as a part of visa fees which is intended to supplant general taxation is the same as charging Tier 1 General visa holders (who are necessarily non-EU nationals) more tax than EU nationals who pay normal tax, which I think is discrimination on the basis of nationality, which is covered under the head of facial discrimination. As a Tier 1 Visa holder, you are taxed twice, once by normal income tax & NI, and again unfairly by punitive visa fees from your after-tax income.

To properly understand the impact to a family of one T1G main applicant and 2 dependents, see how the total PEO fees have gone up in the last 10 years:
2004-05 = £150
2005-06 = £315
2006-07 = £335
2007-08 = £350
2008-09 = £950 (until here dependent visas were free)
2009-10 = £1120
2010-11 = £1403
2011-12 = £2600
2012-13 = £3600
2013-14 = £4988

The inflation adjusted equivalent of £150 in 2004-05, in 2013-14 is £186.
Last edited by ram80 on Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:52 pm, edited 6 times in total.
This post does not contain legal advice.

User avatar
ram80
Member
Posts: 153
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2010 3:32 pm
United Kingdom

Re: we should challenge it in court

Post by ram80 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:47 pm

Duplicate post deleted

fs05
Newly Registered
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:06 pm

Post by fs05 » Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:54 am

Wow that was good so looks like they just don't to listen to any rationale ! These same benefits of a t1-g visa are given to other visa cat holders. Spouse visa and t2 they all get perm residency or Ilr as well .

kg_1218
Junior Member
Posts: 95
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:23 am

Post by kg_1218 » Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:48 am

Hi Ram80,

First of all I would like to thank for your excellent effort.

Yes, I have already sent a mail to my local MP. I request everyone to put some effort on this. It may not be possible to roll-back the proposed fee but at least they should think next time before increasing.

hussainkothari
Member of Standing
Posts: 444
Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2006 3:33 pm
Location: UK

Post by hussainkothari » Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:21 pm

Hi ram80, We really appreciate your effort. I am about to write to my MP.
Would you have a modified letter taking into account the new fee increase as well?

ram80, what is your view about filing a litigation about the fee increase?

-H

User avatar
ram80
Member
Posts: 153
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2010 3:32 pm
United Kingdom

Post by ram80 » Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:13 pm

Yes there might be no solution to it apart from litigation, otherwise realize that you have to swallow more fee increases in coming years.

We all still need to write to the OFT and our MPs. Please do, numbers do matter.

I wont be surprised if the total fee of £4988 (for 1+2 applicants) increased to £10,000 in a year or two. We absolutely will need to fight this discrimination and the sooner we do it, the better.

My belief is that the whole policy of charging above cost is completely flawed and discriminatory. Once the cost of processing your visa (which cannot contain a proportion of the cost of UKBA's other activities) is fixed, it can only increase with inflation or actuals.
Last edited by ram80 on Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
This post does not contain legal advice.

Mela
Member
Posts: 122
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:35 pm

Post by Mela » Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:31 pm

ram80 wrote:Yes there might be no solution to it apart from litigation, otherwise realize that you have to swallow more fee increases in coming years.

We all still need to write to the OFT and our MPs. Please do, numbers do matter.

I wont be surprised if the total fee of £4988 (for 1+2 applicants) increased to £10,000 in a year or two. We absolutely will need to fight this discrimination and the sooner we do it, the better.

My belief is that the whole policy of charging above cost is completely flawed and discriminatory. Once the cost of processing your visa (which cannot contain a proportion of the cost of UKBA's other activities) is fixed, it can only increase with inflation or actuals.
I think UKBA want to squeeze as much fee as they can out of PBS visa holders, because for exmaple year 2015 is a last year tier 1 holders will be applying from extensions, vast majority of them will be converting into ILR. So UKBA want to profit as they will be left with international students, number of which will be falling and limitted number of tier 2 holders the rest are non paying fee visa holders (assylym seekeeers, refugees, etc)

Locked