Ferry to The Netherlands without a Schengen Visa

[Plum70]

My husband and I plan to visit family in NL this spring and plan to do so without me applying for a Dutch Schengen visa.

We envisage that my permanent residence card, which is over 5 months in process, would have been delivered by the time of our trip. However, as my passport is with me the UKBA may well issue my PR on an Immigration Status Document. Now my questions:

Has anyone succeeded in travelling by ferry to NL with their EU/EEA/EFTA spouse taking just their passports, marriage certificate and PR card?

Also has anyone travelling in this manner experienced any issues when presenting their RC or PR document on a free standing sheet?

I know that some embassies will not issue Schengen visas if the residence document is not affixed in the passport (F and NL will not) and so I am wondering if this format is not accepted anywhere other than in the UK which will mean we would need to rethink our travel plans.

Thanks

[sheraz7]

Residence permit issued on A4 size paper has similar worth as it is being stamped on passport as along as its holder carrying it along with its passport. Refer to the following link as what need to be possessed:

http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2007/04 ... u-citizen/

[Plum70]

Residence permit issued on A4 size paper has similar worth as it is being stamped on passport as along as its holder carrying it along with its passport. Refer to the following link as what need to be possessed:

http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2007/04 ... u-citizen/

Cheers Sheraz. I know that in theory the PR vignette on an ISD is equivalent to the same in a passport, but in practice may not be viewed or analysed that way. Also the Dutch Embassy states that it is part of international convention for member states not to acknowledge (UK) permits not affixed in one's passport (I have paraphrased).

This is why I am wanting to hear from travellers in a similar situation and how it worked out for them.

[fahad346]

My husband and I plan to visit family in NL this spring and plan to do so without me applying for a Dutch Schengen visa.

We envisage that my permanent residence card, which is over 5 months in process, would have been delivered by the time of our trip. However, as my passport is with me the UKBA may well issue my PR on an Immigration Status Document. Now my questions:

Has anyone succeeded in travelling by ferry to NL with their EU/EEA/EFTA spouse taking just their passports, marriage certificate and PR card?

Also has anyone travelling in this manner experienced any issues when presenting their RC or PR document on a free standing sheet?

I know that some embassies will not issue Schengen visas if the residence document is not affixed in the passport (F and NL will not) and so I am wondering if this format is not accepted anywhere other than in the UK which will mean we would need to rethink our travel plans.

Thanks

Have you previously travelled to NL on RC ? by Air ?

[Plum70]

Have you previously travelled to NL on RC ? by Air ?

No, I have always travelled with Schengen visas. My trip to NL last autumn was on my DE Schengen visa.

Why the question "by air"?

[Plum70]

As I envisaged, my PR confirmation has been issued on an ISD which in my opinion looks neither tamper-proof nor presentable (as would a vignette in a passport). I can now appreciate why embassies refuse to issue Schengen visas where vignettes are not affixed in the applicant's passport.

My husband and I will still be visiting NL by ferry this spring and, in addition to our passports, marriage certificate and my PR card, will take print outs of the NL embassy's acknowledgement of visa-free travel for non-EEA family members travelling with their spouses to avoid any hiccups.

In addition, I still would like feedback from families who travelled in this way on what their experiences were at the border.

What is the set up like by ferry? Is there juxtaposed border control at Harwich and the Hook of Holland?

Thanks

[Jambo]

What is the set up like by ferry? Is there juxtaposed border control at Harwich and the Hook of Holland?

Travelled Hook-Harwich about 1.5 years ago. It was Dutch immigration on the NL side and UKBA on UK side. Not juxtaposed as you have in Calais/Dover.

Don't know how they treat visa free travel but I guess it would be more important to find out the ferry company policy than the Dutch immigration.

[Plum70]

What is the set up like by ferry? Is there juxtaposed border control at Harwich and the Hook of Holland?

Travelled Hook-Harwich about 1.5 years ago. It was Dutch immigration on the NL side and UKBA on UK side. Not juxtaposed as you have in Calais/Dover.

Don't know how they treat visa free travel but I guess it would be more important to find out the ferry company policy than the Dutch immigration.

Thanks Jambo.

The ferry company states that passengers are to ensure that they have all necessary docs. for entry into NL and the UK. If passengers are refused entry (on either) side the company warns that any fines levied on them will be passed on to the passenger(s).

I have checked the NL embassy website and nowhere is there a mention of the visa-free concession for non-EEA family members travelling with/joining their EEA spouses (though I am sure I read it on there sometime ago).

This was the mainstay of our plan, to be able to print of confirmation from the embassy's website. In the absence of this our only (straight forward) option would be for me to apply for a NL Schengen visa. Then comes another probable obstacle - they insist that any UK residence permit is endorsed in the applicant's passport otherwise a Schengen visa cannot be issued...

Any additonal pointers? Also anyone who has travelled with their EEA spouse--passport--free standing residence document and marriage certificate.

[fysicus]

I don't think you should worry too much, but as a precautionary measure make sure you have your marriage certificate with you, as well as the letter that UKBA sent you with the ISD.

Note that the Dutch authorities themselves always issue residence permits as stand-alone documents (credit-card size plastic cards); whether they are issued under national immigration rules or under EU rules makes no difference here. Only the Certificate of Application is actually a visa-like sticker in the passport of the applicant.

However, when you run into problems be aware that you are not a family member of an EEA national, as your husband is Swiss. The UK has decided to treat family members of Swiss nationals in the same way as family members of EEA nationals, but in the end of the day you are not a beneficiary of Directive 2004/38 but of bilateral EU-Switzerland agreements. I don't know what effects (if any) this subtle difference can have.

[Plum70]

I don't think you should worry too much, but as a precautionary measure make sure you have your marriage certificate with you, as well as the letter that UKBA sent you with the ISD.

However, when you run into problems be aware that you are not a family member of an EEA national, as your husband is Swiss. The UK has decided to treat family members of Swiss nationals in the same way as family members of EEA nationals, but in the end of the day you are not a beneficiary of Directive 2004/38 but of bilateral EU-Switzerland agreements. I don't know what effects (if any) this subtle difference can have.

Thanks Fysicus. I am aware of the EU-CH bilaterals and the implication this "peculiar" agreement might have in terms of us benefitting from the free movement Directive. This is partially why I am wanting to get a Dutch Schengen visa as a safeguard.

I'll update this post whatever we decide/happens.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Plum, is your husband British yet?

[wiggsy]

hmmm is there a reason an EEA national would actually loose the additional rights they have by becoming british for a valid reason?

- family can come over as the dependant - no charge etc...

british people dont have the same luxary... i know that swiss arent EU, but they have the same treatment... so why bother?....
[serious question]

[Plum70]

Plum, is your husband British yet?

Hi EUSmile,

Yes he is but he doesn't have a British passport which is why we're having to rely on the EU-CH bilaterals.

Does his British nationality make any difference to our (slight) predicament?

[Plum70]

british people dont have the same luxary... i know that swiss arent EU, but they have the same treatment... so why bother?....
[serious question]

Why bother with what Wiggsy? Yes, Swiss nationals enjoy similar rights as EU/EEA nationals however the EU-CH bilaterals might give the impression that they do not/cases involving CH nationals and their family members should be handled differently. With this I do not wish us to risk travelling w/out some level of (documented) certainty that we can be admitted into NL visa-free using the EU-CH agreement.

Unfortunately the NL embassy's website no longer confirms this concession and so we will be gambling if we tried w/out sufficient proof or feedback of similar successes as back up.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Plum, is your husband British yet?

Hi EUSmile,

Yes he is but he doesn't have a British passport which is why we're having to rely on the EU-CH bilaterals.

Does his British nationality make any difference to our (slight) predicament?

No it was simply that you are the spouse of an EU national (and a Swiss one!).

[Plum70]

No it was simply that you are the spouse of an EU national (and a Swiss one!).

I am (though I still only think of my husband as Swiss).

Anyway, his British/EU nationality is of no advantage in this case as:

1. He doesn't (yet) hold a British passport .
2. Even if he did, I would still need to apply for a (free) Schengen visa, as I understand that the visa-free concession does not apply to family members of British nationals.
3. Thirdly, my PR card being on a separate sheet might not be accepted by the NL embassy anyway.

Back where I started...

P.S: Just had another thought: We have a booked trip to CH this summer for which I also want (need) to apply for a Schengen visa. Now, the Swiss embassy's site doesn't mention anything about not accepting residence documents not issued in one's passport, so we may apply with the Swiss well in advance in the hope that it will cover the NL trip as well.

First of all we'll pop by the CH embassy and ask if they will accept my PR doc as it is. If yes then should be OK.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

2. Even if he did, I would still need to apply for a (free) Schengen visa, as I understand that the visa-free concession does not apply to family members of British nationals.

Only if they don't hold residence cards.

[Plum70]

2. Even if he did, I would still need to apply for a (free) Schengen visa, as I understand that the visa-free concession does not apply to family members of British nationals.

Only if they don't hold residence cards.

OK. However my husband doesn't plan on holding a British passport any time soon so this won't be applicable.

Thanks for the pointers though. Much appreciated.

[Plum70]

So as to conclude this post: Since my enquiry in March, I have become a British citizen and therefore no longer have this predicament.

Thanks to all who posted helpful thoughts/comments.

[Jambo]

You can still test using your old passport and pull out the red passport if this doesn't work (although this might irritate the IO).

[Plum70]

You can still test using your old passport and pull out the red passport if this doesn't work (although this might irritate the IO).

I will probably get a good telling off from my husband who gets an attack of nerves whenever we travel. I'll stick with the maroon booklet!

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

You can still test using your old passport and pull out the red passport if this doesn't work (although this might irritate the IO).

This is actually a wonderful way of testing implementation of free movement law. Because you always know that you can produce the member state passport if the border guard does not know the law.

[Plum70]

You can still test using your old passport and pull out the red passport if this doesn't work (although this might irritate the IO).

This is actually a wonderful way of testing implementation of free movement law. Because you always know that you can produce the member state passport if the border guard does not know the law.

I guess I could ask the IO whether we would've been allowed to board together with my Nigerian passport, PR card and marriage certificate.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

In reality you can rarely ask abstract questions like that. Easiest to test them by travelling on the passport itself.

That said, I did have a lovely conversation with some German border guards who were just starting work at the airport.

[Plum70]

In reality you can rarely ask abstract questions like that.

I'd say 'hypothetical'.

That said, I did have a lovely conversation with some German border guards who were just starting work at the airport.

The UK Border guards are generally pleasant (with me) and imagine, if asked clear questions, they'd be able to give an indication of their position. I do not wish to carry excessive documents where unnecessary.

Perhaps someone else may wish to test this method and feedback.