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MPH80 wrote:I'll give a slightly longer response - but the essence in the same.
You cannot apply under standard rules from within the UK as you have no valid leave. You would have to leave and apply from abroad.
However, because your partner earns under the threshold for earnings - you would not qualify from abroad either under the current circumstances.
It is highly unlikely an article 8 application (the discretionary leave you're talking about) would work for a relatively short term relationship and I can't see an appeal going your way either!
So you have 4 options:
1) You return to India and your partner finds a job earning more (more than £18.6k) , you wait 6 months and then apply.
2) You return to India and someone gives your partner the amount of savings you'd need to cover the short fall (£22,500), wait 6 months, then apply
3) You and your wife move to a third european country where she exercises her treaty rights (studies or works) and you can then return with her to the UK under an EEA family permit.
4) You both move back to India - because - let's face it - you both love each other and it doesn't matter where you live - right?
The problem with 1 and 2 is that you MIGHT come under the catch-all rule which allows the ECO to exclude people who have attempted to frustrate the immigration rules in a significant way. By using deception and THEN overstaying - you may well fall into this category.
So - I think you need to question how dedicated you are to this lady, because for you to remain together, there are going to be some real hurdles for you to jump through.
I should also warn you that the local councils do work with the immigration authorities to report suspect marriages. If they suspect you as an overstayer - you may find UKBA waiting for you on your wedding day.
Thanks againMPH80 wrote:I've outlined all the options available to you.
Article 8 is there to protect a private life. It does NOT specify where that private life has to take place. Ergo UKBA have a habit of saying that if you've only recently formed a relationship then there is normally no reason as to why that family life cannot take place in a 3rd party country. You would have prove significant barrier to relocation - e.g. children at school etc. Family and a house aren't very significant in the grand scheme - people sell and move all the time.
If you had formed a relationship of several years then you would have more of a chance. 6 months more won't make a huge difference.
Right now - this looks like (to UKBA) a marriage of convenience.
The one saving grace is this phrase 'she is taking care of' you just dropped in. What do you mean by that?
Irrelevant sophistry? Really? How sophisticated is it to differentiate between an immigration tribunal deciding the merits of an appeal against an application outcome and a criminal conviction for use of deception? There are lots of posters on here who have been accused of using deception yet it was by no fault of their own. The recent one I read was someone whose payslips did not mirror HMRC records - the employers failure to provide accurate documentation. How far do you think you'd get if you for instance knowingly used forged bank statements in support of an application? Do you really think UKBA would let you walk off into the sunset after they detected that? Furthermore, how daft would you have to be to then appeal the decision at the AIT? The OP has not given sufficient detail for anyone to conclude that he is culpable.That is just irrelevant sophistry. The OP appealed against the refusal of LTR on the grounds of deception and his appeal was dismissed. He's had his day in court. Criminal conviction doesn't come into it.
What you have not said is how long all this took for you, other posts suggest are now on a spouse visa.reabs wrote:Irrelevant sophistry? Really? How sophisticated is it to differentiate between an immigration tribunal deciding the merits of an appeal against an application outcome and a criminal conviction for use of deception? There are lots of posters on here who have been accused of using deception yet it was by no fault of their own. The recent one I read was someone whose payslips did not mirror HMRC records - the employers failure to provide accurate documentation. How far do you think you'd get if you for instance knowingly used forged bank statements in support of an application? Do you really think UKBA would let you walk off into the sunset after they detected that? Furthermore, how daft would you have to be to then appeal the decision at the AIT? The OP has not given sufficient detail for anyone to conclude that he is culpable.That is just irrelevant sophistry. The OP appealed against the refusal of LTR on the grounds of deception and his appeal was dismissed. He's had his day in court. Criminal conviction doesn't come into it.
I overstayed for a period far longer than the OP. My circumstances were similar and yet here I am preparing my application for naturalisation. So rather than paint a picture of doom and gloom, illuminate the facts for him as they are. Yes he does not stand a chance under Article 8/ECHR due to the short period of time that he has spent with his spouse and his current precarious position but that does not mean that there aren't any other avenues left to explore. Granted they are difficult to navigate but with adquate legal representation and the necessary commitment, there is no reason why in time this can't be turned around.
Hi guys, thanks again for your timereabs wrote:Whilst I broadly agree with the other posters, I differ slightly. I believe your two biggest problems are that your wife does not meet the income threshold and that deception was used in a previous application.
I qualify my following sentences by first stating the obvious: permission to marry within the UK is unlikely to be granted and any unsuccessful application that you make in country is almost certainly going to be followed by detention and removal.
Overstaying is serious but is not grounds for refusal of your VAF4. It does however need to be plausibly explained in your application and presented from your perspective. Im not saying this out of turn but from factual cases.
The prior "alleged" deception is a greater element but not insurmountable. Note that I say "alleged" because it was never proven by way of court conviction. Additionally, no criminal prosecution was brought so it can't have been that grave - all plainly evident cases of fraud/deception especially those made in country are followed up with prosecution and/or deportation. With good legal representation, this can be mitigated.
Your best bet and my advice would be, to start accumulating documentation that provides evidence of your relationship. Bills, photographs, testimonials from people that know you but aren't relatives etc. Your partner should also start looking into getting a higher paying job. £2,600 isn't a big jump in pay if one is willing to make the necessary sacrifices. e.g. commuting further, working shifts (the shift pay alone in many jobs is more than the shortfall), changing careers... The alternative of finding money to show as savings is not easy. If possible though, get it as soon as possible and have it in her account for potentially no less than 12 months - thats how long it may take to sort you out. Once you have the documentation (18-24 months worth would be ideal) and the savings/higher pay have mellowed nicely (6 months minimum) you can leave for India (You will obviously need to renew your pp at the Indian high comm or get emergency travel papers). Get married there (keep photos other docs) and make your application. You could be back within a month of leaving if managed properly. An alternative which is highly unattractive is to take the 20 year LR route
If you see my other posts, I had ILR recently granted. Preparing naturalisation as will soon be eligible.What you have not said is how long all this took for you, other posts suggest are now on a spouse visa.
reabs wrote:If you see my other posts, I had ILR recently granted. Preparing naturalisation as will soon be eligible.What you have not said is how long all this took for you, other posts suggest are now on a spouse visa.
OP - that is an endemic problem where I come from (dont ask). The only way to prove that educational certificates are legit is to include transcripts that bear an official seal. Sometimes that is not enough and as difficult as it may be to get, a letter from the registrar of the awarding institution may be required. I know of many that have been told their degree certificates are bogus yet they aren't and are perfectly legitimate.
Unfortunately the applicant sometimes has to bear the onerous burden of proving their authenticity. This can be done in future applications where you can provide rock solid documentation proving authenticity and explain carefully the relevant circumstances. I attached a 4 page, 1000 word letter to my VAF4 that explained my circumstances and left nothing un-clarified. It took me 24 months to build up the necessary documentation to prove that my relationship was legitimate and was back in a month. I have been with my wife for 5 years now and looking forward to another 50.
On the 20 year LR route - this is a very undesirable track to follow and I'd advise against it. It is for all intents, the last resort to regularisation. You'd need to have been in the country on regular/irregular stay for no less than 20 years to be eligible. You'd need to have documentation covering the entire period and will almost certainly require the services of a good immigration lawyer to assist with your application. The reason I advise against it is that you may go through the period and when about to become eligible, find the government of the day scrapping it. An acquaintance (now deceased) was looking to make a LR application based on the old 14 year route only to find it scrapped when he had 18 months to go to qualify. He endured terrible economic hardship including missing the funerals of both parents. I would not wish that on anyone.
If you and your partner want to make a go at this, all i can say is that its going to be a tough road to travel but one well worth it - hopefully your children will appreciate the sacrifices.