NATURALISATION FOR NON EEA FAMILY MEMBERS?

[polandcalling]

Hello I am new to the forum and I hope someone will be able to help me here.
November 2005, I arrived from Poland to Uk and have been working as Self-Employed since then with no gaps.
September 2007, I got married to NON-EEA citizen from Panama in her country.
November 2007, my Non-EEA spouse arrived in UK with an EEA Family Permit valid from 29 Oct 2007 to 29 April 2008 to join me in UK.
October 2008, She got the Residence Card (EEA 2) valid until October 2013
February 2009, My wife gave birth to our first n only child who holds both a Polish and a Panamanian passport as we were told she was not entitled to British Passport.
January 2011, My wife started working part time (still in the same job until present)
March 2011, I Got Permanent Residence status ( I was issued with a PR card)
I believe I have been entitled to apply for Naturalisation as a British Citizen from March 2012 (a year after I got PR). Is that right ???
I passed the Life in the UK test just a month ago by the way. Now my questions are:
1.- Did my wife become a Permanent Resident in November 2012? (She arrived here in Nov 2007 with EEA Family Permit) or will she become a permanent resident in October 2013? (she got Residence card in October 2008) which of those dates count to qualify for permanent residence?
2.- If the first date counts (Nov 2012) is she entitled to apply for Naturalisation as a British Citizen in November 2013? (she will have been in UK 6 years by then)
3.- problem is, her 5 year Residence Card expires in October 2013, despite this, will she still be allowed to apply for Naturalisation in Nov 2013? Also her boss is quite aware of this and told her that he would terminate her job in October this year (which is when her 5 year Residence Card expires) unless she renews her visa, but we don’t want to go through the EEA 4 route as it is a nightmare.
4.- So is it better for us if I apply for Naturalisation first, become British so then she wouldn’t have to wait till November 2013 to apply for naturalisation? I think that as a wife of a British Citizen, she is entitled to skip that one year, is it??. Or is it best for both of us to apply for Naturalisation as British Citizens at the same time in November 2013? How about my child? Do we include her in our application too?
I am desperate for answers and any help will be very much appreciated.

[Jambo]

Answered already in your other post.

[renatin_uk]

Hello...
Im a Non-EEA My wife is also Polish.We also been through exactly same things.

Let me explain plain and simple. and question please ask.

You shouldn't worried when the Residence card finishes. You could have applied for PR together with yours.
You should have sent EEA4 together with your EEA3.
She is a dependent of you.

Me and my wife always send ours applications together. I never had to prove anything such work. she always did need to prove.

your wife should be able to naturalisation in oct 2013 based on 6 years residence.If she already had a PR.

she didnt need to wait this visa finish in 2013, because the 1st visa she received counted as residence for her.
As i know SHE MUST to have a PR to apply for citizenship.

Once you have a PR, you can apply for your citizenship any time. once you lived here 6 years, meeting the last 5 years Treaty rights, and the not been absent from UK.

Your child born before your PR, so the child will need a MN1 form.

[Jambo]

You could have applied for PR together with yours. You should have sent EEA4 together with your EEA3. She is a dependent of you.

Although she is dependant on him, she will obtain PR only after 5 years of residence. As the OP arrived to the UK 2 years before his wife, he will obtain PR 2 years earlier. When he applied, she wasn't in the UK for 5 years yet.

As i know SHE MUST to have a PR to apply for citizenship.

She must have PR status (obtained automatically under EEA regulations after 5 years). She doesn't need to have PR card (following EEA3/4 application).

[polandcalling]

thanks v much to all for your wonderful replies. Now I know for sure that my non-eea wife became automatically a permanent resident in November 2012 and that in November 2013 she will be entitled to apply for Naturalisation as BC.
If she applies for PR (EEA4) now, a COA may take time and won't satisfy her boss. She printed all the information regarding automatic residence after 5 years in uk for non-eea spouses of eea nationals and that it is not a must to apply for PR (EEA4) but he did not even bother to read it and just said to her very clearly that unless her visa gets renewed, he will terminate her employment in October 2013 which is when her 5 year residence card expires. My wife tried to apply for another job but she got turned down because of her visa running out soon and surprisingly employers seem not to understand quite well European Law concerning non eea spouses of eea nationals.
Anyway, thanks to your advice I have decided to apply for naturalisation as BC and include my 4 year old daughter in my application. Hopefully I will become British before October 2013 so then my wife could apply soon after and not wait until November 2013, is that right??
I am considering using the NCS, do they help you at all in filling in the forms or at least do they reassure you if you have filled in the application form in the right way?
I am also a bit worried about the referee thing, can a retired teacher be one of my professional referees? I have looked at the list and it does say teacher but how about if they have retired already?
also my daughter has been going to her nursery for 2 years now and I am considering asking the Manager of her nursery to act as one of her professional referees, but she has only known her for 2 years and not 3 as it should, would that still be ok? I cannot ask GP or dentist as we moved house like 3 times in almost 6 years and had to register in different surgeries. Any advice will be highly appreciated. thanks very much for reading my post.

[Jambo]

If she applies for PR (EEA4) now, a COA may take time and won't satisfy her boss.

Why? She should just tell her employer she applied for it to be renewed and the application is still in process. The CoA is an official letter from the HO. It should not take long to get the CoA and it should be very clear that it allows the applicant to work for 6 months from date of issue. The CoA is also listed as an accepted document for work authorisation by the HO.

Hopefully I will become British before October 2013 so then my wife could apply soon after and not wait until November 2013, is that right??

Yes.

I am considering using the NCS, do they help you at all in filling in the forms or at least do they reassure you if you have filled in the application form in the right way?

They will go over the form to check it was filled in correctly.

I am also a bit worried about the referee thing, can a retired teacher be one of my professional referees? I have looked at the list and it does say teacher but how about if they have retired already?
also my daughter has been going to her nursery for 2 years now and I am considering asking the Manager of her nursery to act as one of her professional referees, but she has only known her for 2 years and not 3 as it should, would that still be ok? I cannot ask GP or dentist as we moved house like 3 times in almost 6 years and had to register in different surgeries. Any advice will be highly appreciated. thanks very much for reading my post.

Retired teacher should be OK.
Don't worry too much about your daughter. The HO are not worried about referees for young UK born children. Just get any professional referee to sign it.

[Amber]

I applied for naturalisation as BC over a month ago without using the NCS, got the COA 2 weeks after so I am now just waiting for an answer.

My dilemma is that my non EEA wife residence card EEA2 expires the first week of October and we are hoping I get my naturalisation application approved before that so then she could apply for naturalisation as the spouse of a British Citizen before her residence card expires.

But what if I do not get my naturalisation sorted by then? I guess in this case she will either just have to apply for permanent residence EEA4 as the spouse of an EEA national before her residence card expires but problem is that, if she does so, she will be required to send my passport too, but I do not have it with me as I sent it together with my application for naturalisation as BC, so my question is, would the Home Office still process her application without the spouse's passport?

the other option is that in November she will have been here exactly 6 years, she arrived in UK on November 2007 with a EEA spouse Family permit. I think she could also be eligible to apply for naturalisation as BC in her own right, isn't it? but her residence card will have expired by then. So I am not sure if the HO would still process her application?

Also what if my application for naturalisation as BC gets approved after she has sent her application for Permanent Residence EEA4? would she be able to withdraw her application and applied for naturalisation instead?

We are running against the time and any advice, suggestion, idea would be highly appreciated.
Thanks

1) If you have submitted your passport for BC; You can use your national ID (it you guys have it in Poland) for the EEA card. Your non EEA wife will need to send her passport, but that's not an issue, because she hasn't applied for anything yet.

2) If her EEA family permit expires; I'd apply for a new one before it expires; otherwise, she will be illegal and will have broken her residency, so I don't think she would be able to apply for BC after that.

3) if you apply for an EEA family permit and withdraw it after her current permit has expired, I'd think it's the same case, she will have broken her residency.

So, I'd say unless you got your BC soon enough, apply for a permit for her or she'll be in trouble.

Regards

D

Derivaz thanks for your kind reply but I do not think you quite understood my post.
My non-eea wife came to Uk in Nov 2007 with a Family Permit valid for 6 months only and this expired in May 2008 so then she applied for a Residence Card using EEA2 form which was issued in October 2008 valid for 5 years so this is expiring at the beginning of October 2013.

I am from Poland and I have applied for naturalisation as a British Citizen so I am hoping this gets approved before October 2013 (which is when her Residence Card expires) and if it does, then my non eea wife could apply for naturalisation as a BC as a spouse of a BC in this case.

MY questions are:
1. what if my application for Naturalisation as a BC doesn't get approved by October? my non eea wife would then have to apply under European Law for Permanent Residence EEA 4 instead and she'd need to send her own passport as well as mine, the HO would not accept my Polish ID card for this purpose I think, but my passport is still in the HO so would her application for Permanent Residence EEA4 get rejected because she could not be able to send my passport?

2. Also in November 2013 she will have been exactly 6 years in the UK and as the European Law states that EEA nationals and their family members get automatically Permanent Residence after 5 years, then she became a Permanent Residence in November 2012, didn't she? and to apply for naturalisation as a BC, you should have hold Permanent Residence for one year, then in NOV 2013 she will have meet the requirements to apply for naturalisation as a BC in her own right, won't she?

The thing is, we could wait for my application to get approved so then she could apply as a spouse of a BC or even she could apply in her own right in November 2013 for BC but her boss has already told her that he will finish her employment when her Residence Card expires which is at the beginning of October 2013 unless she renews it and she really does not want to lose her job that is why she cannot really wait until November 2013.

The other thing I said is that if she applies for Permanent Residence EEA4 before her Residence Card expires and after that my application for Naturalisation as a BC is successful then perhaps she could withdraw her application for Permanent Residence EEA4 and apply for BC instead?

Any ideas, advice, suggestions will be highly appreciated.
Thanks

Hiya,

I understood you Smile

1) Yes, if she can't apply for BC and her card expires, she'll obviously have to apply for another card or she'd be illegal, if she isn't EEA. What nationality is she? if she is American for instance, she can stay 6 months as a tourist, but if she is pakistany, etc... i think she has to leave right away.
The HO will accept your Polish ID; they accepted mine for my PR card and the guide and form says that you can use is as form of ID; so you can if you are EEA, so her EEA family card application wouldn't be rejected due to that.
2) EEA citizens can apply after 6 years exercising treaty rights, no need for a card, but I'm not sure about their non EEA relatives; if the rule is the same as for EEA, then yes, she can apply in nov 2013

3) I don't think you are going to get your BC before october, so the logical thing to do is to apply for her card asap, actually, you should have sooner, because in october, her card will experice and she won't be allowed to work or even to live here (depending on her nationality).

What I'd do is renew her card as soon as possible, use your polish ID, for that application, I used my EU ID for that and had no problem, then whenever she's eligible, she can apply for citizenship, that's what I'd do.

[Amber]

The spouse of an EEA national will not become an 'illegal' nor will she have to become a tourist.

Once the spouse has attained 5 years married to a EEA national who is exercising treaty rights, that person is settled.

She can apply to naturalise when your are British straight away if she is settled and has met the other requirements or even in her own right if she has had PR for 12 or more months.

There is an additional B1 English requirement (in addition to Life in the UK) from October 28.

[polandcalling]

Thanks to everyone for your helpful answers. My non EEA wife is from Panama. Yes Derivaz you are right when saying that she could use my Polish ID instead of my passport when she applies for Permanent Residence EEA 4.
I think I will just get her to send her application for PR EEA4 as soon as possible and if my application for BC is successful, then she will just withdraw her applic for PR EEA4 and apply for naturalisation as BC instead but Im not sure if the HO will be happy to allow this.

Also the other thing is, she could wait till Nov 2013 to apply for BC in her own right as she will have been 6 years in the UK but her Residence Card EEA2 will have expired by then and it may be tricky.

I will get you updated and if anyone has any more advice to give, you are welcome to post.
Thanks

[polandcalling]

Hi to everyone in the forum. My application for citizenship as a BC has been granted and it took exactly 2 months. I did it all by myself without using the NCS. I am so happy and I thank everyone in the forum who contributed especially to Jambo and Amber. You guys are really Gurus.
Thanks again

[Amber]

Hi I am Polish and my application for naturalisation as a BC has been granted and I would like to know if Poland allows dual nationality or not.

The thing is my wife is non-EEA and she now wants to apply for naturalisation as she meets the residency requirements but I am not sure if it is better for her to apply as the spouse of a British Citizen (if so, she has to prove she's been resident for the past 3 years) or as the spouse of an EEA- national (Polish) (if so she needs to prove residency for the last 5 years).

I read somewhere that Poland does not allow dual citizenship, is that true?
Please advise me on this.
Thanks

One would have thought that this is something you would check before starting the BC journey.

Poland allows dual nationality (or to be precise doesn't disallow it).

Does your wife have a PR Confirmation following a EEA4 application? If not, she will need your Polish passport + treaty rights evidence to show she has obtained PR status and proof of your British citizenship to apply as a spouse of a BC.

Polish citizens can have dual nationality, but as Polish citizen in Poland you can use only Polish citizenship. So you are not allowed for example to cross border using another nationality, etc. but my kids have Polish and British citizenships but only British passports and they did travel to and from Poland on British passport, they not bothered. last year I wanted to do Polish passports for them in Poland and was told that they can only issue 12 months passports as my kids live in the UK and we should get 5years passports from Consulate in UK. when I told them that I don`t want 12 months passports they told me that my kids are not allowed to leave Poland using British passports. but don`t worry, there will be no issue in the UK, you can use nationality of your choice.

Jambo thanks again for always being there to help people.

Non EEA-Spouse arrived in uk with a Family Permit in Nov 2007
She was issued a Residence Card in October 2008 valid til October 2013
She acquired automatic Permanent Residence in NOV 2012 (under EU law)
She does not want to apply for PR (EEA 4) as it is not a "must" but instead for naturalisation as a British Citizen
I (EEA-Spouse) got a Permanent Residence Card in March 2011
My naturalisation as a BC application has just been granted.

Before my wife applies for naturalisation as a BC, we want to make sure we do everything right.

I googled if Poland allows dual nationality or not and this is what I Found on different websites:

DUAL CITIZENSHIP Poland does not recognize dual citizenship of its citizens. Polish law does not forbid a Polish citizen from becoming the citizen of a foreign state but Polish authorities will only recognize the Polish citizenship.


Does Poland allow dual citizenship?
Poland will not recognize you as a dual citizen, however it does not punish you for have multiple citizenships. Therefore, if you have both Polish & American citizenship, in the eyes of Polish authorities you are solely a Polish Citizen. Due to the fact you are viewed solely as a Polish citizen you must enter and leave Poland using your Polish passport.


The other day Polish President Bronislaw Komorowski signed a law allowing dual nationality. According to the new legislation, an applicant for a Polish passport need not refuse the previous citizenship, as was required before. Now a voivode (governor of a province in Poland) can grant Polish nationality to a person who has resided in the country no less than three years (according to a permanent residence permit), has regular income, and knows the Polish language.

As your wife doesn't have confirmation of her PR status she will need to prove she has PR when applying for naturalisation.

Proof of PR: your Polish passport, PR card, proof of her residence for 5 years.

For naturalisation it is better to apply as a spouse of BC so proof of your British citizenship (certificate or passport) will be required.

So I see, she needs to apply as wife of BC.
what can she send for her proof of her residency for the last 5 years?
on the AN Form should she put BRITISH and POLISH as Partner's Nationality on page 8?
Does she need to complete the EEA nationals exercising treaty of rights on page 9? I hope not.
Also how long do I have to wait for the ceremony invitation to come?
Thanks

She doesn't need to apply as a spouse of BC. She can apply based on her own merit which would be in November (after 6 years). I don't see any advantage not applying as a spouse of BC. If you attend a ceremony before the end of the month she won't need to meet the new English requirement (from 28/10).

Put Polish and British (if after ceremony).
No need to fill section 2.4 as your PR Card covers that.

It normally takes 2 weeks to get the invitation.

jambo thanks for such great answers.

I'd rather she apply as soon as possible, just after my ceremony. Yes she could apply for BC in her own merit in NOv 2013 but the new English requirement will be in place by then.

My wife has already passed the life in the UK test but what can she send as proof for her residency for 5 years?

She has this Inland Revenue tax calculation thing from 2008 til present showing the taxes she has paid. Would that be enough? or does she need to send something else?

also on all the occasions we have flown to Poland she was always required a visa and she has visa stickers on her passport from 2007 til present. We only stayed there for a maximum of 10 days at a time like twice a year.

thanks

You might want to call your local council and see if you can book a ceremony as soon as possible (even before receiving the invitation letter). It might be tight getting it done before the 28th (actually the 24th as your wife application needs to get to Liverpool on the 25th the latest to avoid the new requirement).

Annual tax calculations should be fine. Normally the nationality team don't require such extensive evidence as the European cases team (when applying for EEA3/4). It might be that just her passport would be enough but I would add another source of evidence just in case.

I will call the council tomorrow and see if I can book the ceremony before the 24th the latest but it does say in the approval letter that I should not contact them within the first 2 weeks. Shall I do it anyway?
Thanks

If you wait the full two weeks to call them it might be too late. I don't expect them to book you without having the certificate (which the HO sends directly to them) but it's better to understand where you stand early.