Am i required by law to apply for RC after divorce?

[Imshzd]

I read very carefully.


So I stands on my claim that after divorce non EEA national must have to inform HO with the request of ROR,in case where marriage lasted 3 years.
And if marriage lasted 5 years then non EEA national can apply PR.


If readers believe on my stand then good enough.
If readers dis believe on my stand then best of luck.

Believe or disbelieve,both cases there will be no effect on me.

[Imshzd]

ROR is not an automatic rights.

The real question is whether Direct Effect principle extends over the ROR cases or not. Retaining rights of residence is under the provision of the EU law, not the UK domestic law. Do you know any reason why of a sudden the Direct Effect principle should stop working and cannot to be applied here? I am absolutely sure of one thing though. You cannot support your thesis "ROR is not an automatic right" by the evidence of the HO violating it.

I do agree with EUsmileWEallsmile that it is better to apply for EEA2 after divorce though.[/u]

Nimita stand on one point.

First you are dis agree with me and at the last you are agree and saying it is to better for EEA 2 after divorce????


That's what I m trying to explain.


There is nothing written in EU regulations that after divorce non EEA national can automatically retain rights of residence.

Un married partners can not enjoy automatic rights of residence until host country confirm that un married partner status..

If under EU laws every thing is automatic then why un married partner rights are Not automatic???????

Under EU laws yes every thing is automatic until non EEA national is a family member of an EEA national because all automatic rights come from EEA national but after divorce non EEA national ceased to be a family member of an EEA national.

The letter issued with RC from HO to the non EEA national is under EU law not under English law.So what is written in this letter is a part of EU regulations.this is another issue if it is legal or violation.So unless this issue will solved non EEA national must comply on it,and avoid any immigration problems.

[Nimitta]

Nimita stand on one point.

First you are dis agree with me and at the last you are agree and saying it is to better for EEA 2 after divorce????

Applying for EEA2 is better because it is more convenient, not because not doing so is illegal. Exactly in the same way as applying for RC for a EU family member is highly advisable but in no way obligatory.

There is nothing written in EU regulations that after divorce non EEA national can automatically retain rights of residence.

It does not have to.

Un married partners can not enjoy automatic rights of residence until host country confirm that un married partner status..

If under EU laws every thing is automatic then why un married partner rights are Not automatic???????

Because the Directive (EU law) specifies that unmarried partners cannot enjoy automatic rights. Mark it, EU law draws the line, not the HO.

The letter issued with RC from HO to the non EEA national is under EU law not under English law.So what is written in this letter is a part of EU regulations.this is another issue if it is legal or violation.So unless this issue will solved non EEA national must comply on it,and avoid any immigration problems.

"So what is written in this letter is a part of EU regulations".

That would mean the UK law takes precedence over EU law.

Ok. I did not mean to be impolite, so I edited a little bit my post.

[Jambo]

The directive lays out the conditions to retain right of residence. Applying for a card is not one of them. I would incline to say that as long as you meet the conditions, you have automatically retained right of residence even without applying for a card confirming that.

The fact that the HO write something in the letter doesn't mean it is correct. The HO also advise you to apply for a EEA Family Permit if you travel outside the UK following the request for the return of the passport (it is written so in the letter you get together with the documents) although this is completely unnecessary/legally required if you are a non visa national.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

The directive lays out the conditions to retain right of residence. Applying for a card is not one of them. I would incline to say that as long as you meet the conditions, you have automatically retained right of residence even without applying for a card confirming that.

I would agree with this.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

@ Imshzd, for clarity, it was not my intention to have a go. It is healthy to have a good debate, test matters and draw conclusions. You may have been convinced by other's arguments or perhaps you remain to be convinced.

The difference for other family members (mentioned in one of your posts above) is that their rights are not automatic, for the direct beneficiaries of the directive, rights are very strong (and automatic).

[yemco]

@ Imshzd, for clarity, it was not my intention to have a go. It is healthy to have a good debate, test matters and draw conclusions. You may have been convinced by other's arguments or perhaps you remain to be convinced.

The difference for other family members (mentioned in one of your posts above) is that their rights are not automatic, for the direct beneficiaries of the directive, rights are very strong (and automatic).

This is a very informative debate I really appreciate the efforts of everyone.

[Imshzd]

Well it was a nice chat,
My conviction or not,does not matter.
The point which I tried to explain is still there.
May be some people's don't want to listern which they dont understand.

Eu regulations are clear as explained in 10(5).

After divorce if non EEA national assume that he/she retained rights of residence without HO confirmations then this is totally imaginary,unless HO confirm this.

I do understand that non EEA national can travel without HO confirmation about ROR along with the required documents but if at ports IO refuse to accept these documents???then where the imaginary ROR gone??

If enforcement team stop Non EEA national any where in the uk and ask their status?they don't know about ROR as HO record shows family member of an EEA national,then problem???

And lots of other things which may so painful.

There are dozens of applications refused every month for non EEA nationals who claims as a family member of an EEA national due to lack of treaty rights etc etc.As their rights are automatic as explained in EU regulations.
But reality is different then the paper reading.

We are talking on this point,e.g,whether after divirce ROR is automatic or not.

If this is automatic then who will give the certificate of this automatic rights?This is my point....

Other members are saying it is automatic but advisable.(means reactive)
I am saying it is not automatic unless HO confirm this,So don't take a chance and apply for this confirmation as soon as divorce finalised.(means pro active).

Rights are strong until law protects them.
If rights are strong but law does not protect them then???


Rights after Marriage are so strong if law(HO) give them protection.
Rights after divorce are so strong if law(HO)protects them.(ROR)

Rights after sham marriages are so strong(as claimed)but law does not give them a protection.

ROR is the case where HO check the requirements mentioned in 10(5),if fulfil then non EEA nationals are under the protection of EU regulations and the beneficiary of the directive.

[Jambo]

We all agree that it is better to sort the status after the divorce. We just disagree if this is a must or not.

I still hold the view that even if you don't apply for RoR, assuming you hold the required documents, you will be able to apply for PR when you complete the 5 years even without applying for ROR after the divorce. Do you disagree on this point? Would the HO refuse such an application because you didn't apply for RoR?

[Imshzd]

ROR and PR both can work together as mentioned in EEA 4 form.
So disagree point is
Must or not.
We can solve this point by freedom of information request.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

We all agree that it is better to sort the status after the divorce. We just disagree if this is a must or not.

I still hold the view that even if you don't apply for RoR, assuming you hold the required documents, you will be able to apply for PR when you complete the 5 years even without applying for ROR after the divorce. Do you disagree on this point? Would the HO refuse such an application because you didn't apply for RoR?

Or even imagine you delayed applying for ROR for 6 months after the divorce was finalized. So there is a 6 month gap. I do not think this should affect a PR application.

[Jambo]

ROR and PR both can work together as mentioned in EEA 4 form.
So disagree point is
Must or not.
We can solve this point by freedom of information request.

Doesn't the RoR part in the EEA4 form support my view that it is not a must and can be waited until the PR confirmation application.

Imagine a case that you are married (abroad) for 3 years. Move to the UK and get divorced after 1 year of Residnce. You don't apply for RoR and apply for PR after another 4 years of residence. Would the PR application be refused?

I don't think this is a FOI request (unless there is a policy documents that we are not aware of but I believe most of the HO EU notices are already available). It's just a query to the European Policy team. They are quite responsive when it comes to generic policy questions.

[Imshzd]

ROR and PR both can work together as mentioned in EEA 4 form.
So disagree point is
Must or not.
We can solve this point by freedom of information request.

Doesn't the RoR part in the EEA4 form support my view that it is not a must and can be waited until the PR confirmation application.

Imagine a case that you are married (abroad) for 3 years. Move to the UK and get divorced after 1 year of Residnce. You don't apply for RoR and apply for PR after another 4 years of residence. Would the PR application be refused?

I don't think this is a FOI request (unless there is a policy documents that we are not aware of but I believe most of the HO EU notices are already available). It's just a query to the European Policy team. They are quite responsive when it comes to generic policy questions.

Its all depend on personal circumstances.

[Imshzd]

Question is must or not.

At the moment all non EEA nationals who received their RC can read these last 3 lines in their letters which they received with their RC,

This Directorate should be notified immediately if your family member decides to leave the United Kingdom,or ceases to a Treaty rights here,or if you cease to be a family member.


If above written lines are same with your letters then if non EEA nationals cease to be a family member then they should be notified immediately.

this letter is issued under EU regulations to the non EEA nationals who are the family member of an EEA national.


So if this letter is illegal And against the EU regulations then Please some body give me the law reference or any court orders which confirms that These wordings from HO to non EEA nationals are illegal.


If there is no court ruling or written confirmation against these wordings then all non EEA nationals should be notified if their family circumstances ever changed.

If not then HO can do anything.

[Jambo]

Question is must or not.

This Directorate should be notified immediately if your family member decides to leave the United Kingdom,or ceases to a Treaty rights here,or if you cease to be a family member.

I don't think "should" has any legal meaning. It means a person is "encouraged" to do something while "must" means they are required to do it.

[Ricardo]

Question is must or not.

At the moment all non EEA nationals who received their RC can read these last 3 lines in their letters which they received with their RC,

This Directorate shouldif be nogivesed immedirighty if your family member decides to leave the United Kingdom,or ceases to a Treaty rights here,or if you cease to be a family member.


If above written lines are same with your letters then if non EEA nationals cease to be a family member then they should be notified immediately.

this letter is issued under EU regulations to the non EEA nationals who are the family member of an EEA national.


So if this letter is illegal And against the EU regulations then Please some body give me the law reference or any court orders which confirms that These wordings from HO to non EEA nationals are illegal.


If there is no court ruling or written confirmation against these wordings then all non EEA nationals should be notified if their family circumstances ever changed.

If not then HO can do anything.

This letter is only applicable to those who fall short of RoR requirements. Under EU law you aren't obliged to apply for RC if are married, but it's better to do so. The same goes for someone who has RoR. It's only the right of unmarried partners and distant family members that aren't automatic because other EU country are different on this. Some recognised it and some don't.

[Imshzd]

Question is must or not.

This Directorate should be notified immediately if your family member decides to leave the United Kingdom,or ceases to a Treaty rights here,or if you cease to be a family member.

I don't think "should" has any legal meaning. It means a person is "encouraged" to do something while "must" means they are required to do it.

You got it.

Yes that's the right answere.

[dotsystem]

Thank you all for your contributions, well appreciated.