ILR catch-22. Is there any way through?!

[Amber]

The endorsement is correct, the fact that it doesn't say no recourse to public funds is what gives it away as DLR, this should have triggered further investigation e,g. Look at the letter, a reasonably competent advisor would have picked up on it.

It seems there has been a collection of failings, but you should have also presented the letter.

[sydneylee]

Thank you. I found it difficult to believe that so many people could have looked at it and still missed such an important thing.

I wish I had even remembered there was a letter and that it would have cleared up everything....my failing.

I did, however point out to all of the people that only on the original stamp did it mention 'no recourse to public funds'.....not on the Residence Permit.

Thankfully I still have the letter. I would never have been able to put together what had happened. I shudder to think how much longer my husband and I would have been apart. We couldn't see any way out. I was trying to get him here but that was not looking good sponsorship-wise and I'm not at all sure he could have made the adjustment. I thank you so much for making things clear to me. Things should go much more smoothly from now on. I will be getting some help to clear up things re: the Council and getting a NINo and to find out why I was given DLR. It makes no sense to me and feels punitive to put us through another three years of waiting and worrying.

Thank you again.

[Amber]

I am sure you will be granted DLR for a further 3 years and then after that period you can settle. It is possible to apply to settle (discretionary) before but the circumstance should be exceptional, your solicitor will advise. As soon as you're settled you can naturalise as British (subject to circumstances being the same).

[letmec2006]

Just followed this post out of interest, just want to say BRILLIANT to Amber for your knowledge for doing an excellent job
Well Done
Hope the OP gets her visa and join with her husband.
Let mec

[sydneylee]

sorry, another question please.

My first application was FLR(M). I was given DLR (I wish I knew why!)
I have been reading the forums and the application form always mentioned to extend DLR seems to be FLR(O). This doesn't seem right to me in my case.

FLR(M) - Application for extension to stay in the UK as the partner of a person present and settled in the UK etc...

FLR(O) - Application for leave to remain in a category not covered by other application forms etc...

I have been in contact with a Law Firm to get help 1) to find out why I was given DLR 2) to make sure which form to fill out and remit 3) to ask to have the second three years set aside and to be allowed to apply for ILR instead because of our exceptional circumstances (my husband's health)

I would just be more comfortable if I could study the right form now while I wait for confirmation from solicitor. I like to have 'all my ducks in a row' if possible. My husband says I worry too much about 'what-ifs'...it's true but I don't do well with surprises!

So can someone tell me which I should look at....FLR(M) or FLR(O) and if FLR(O), why?

Thanx much

To Amber - you mentioned being naturalized as British when settled. I'm having difficulty with that right now....do I really want that!!! My husband is British from birth and many generations before him and he keeps getting shafted. I get older and more tired and the hoops to jump through get higher and higher....and more and more costly!!!
Feeling cynical right now, perhaps that will pass. Probably reading too many forum horror stories!!!

Thank you again

[sydneylee]

Sorry, an adjustment from last post. Tried to contact UKBA to ask the questions...a colossal waste of time and energy!!

I have contacted MP asking if he can ask Ombudsman to find answers for me. Hope that was the right approach.

As for solicitor....asked for help to talk to Richmond Council to the wall!

We Canadians are generally quiet and polite...always apologizing...BUT you don't want to make us mad

[sydneylee]

Back again...getting tired I guess.

Meant to say...Asked solicitor for help to nail Richmond Council to the wall!

[Amber]

FLR(O), O being other as it is discretionary, is the correct form for a DLR extension, if you applied for FLR(M) that is now a new 5 year route to settlement.

To settle after 3 years DLR is rare and requires exceptional circumstances, I gave the example of your husband's poor health, age and the added stress this is causing. You should expect to have to wait another 3 years to settle, it may have been you were deemed not to be able to adequately maintain yourself when you applied for flr(m). Ask your solicitor about whether the Home Office could consider you to have exceptional reasons to settle early on SET(O).

[sydneylee]

Thank you. I'll print off FLR(O) and prepare myself in case we're not 'exceptional' enough.

Much appreciated.

My curiosity needs satisfying at least as to why DLR in the first place. I can't believe it was re: maintenance because when my FLR(M) was denied and we had to go through the tribunal, UKBA's reason for denial was 1) that I had come to UK as a visitor and that they believed that ours was not a genuine marriage (me being at the time a child bride...at age 65). They never questioned maintenance capability. My husband had more than adequate income. My guess is the visitor thing...I came as a visitor which it seems makes it acceptable to marry, to pay another £475 to have biometrics done but not to stay in the country with my husband. I realize that ignorance of the law is not an excuse. But we argued that the thought never entered our heads since when we applied to marry, the COA asked in more than one place if we planned to stay in the UK. We, of course, ticked the 'yes' boxes. We were granted the right to marry, sent a letter of congratulations and £475 was requested for biometrics. Never ever was there a hint that all the while UKBA knew that they would subsequently be sending me a letter that I had to sign for...at the address they said I did not live....that told me I had no right to be in the country and that if I did not leave of my own accord, a car would be sent to take me forcibly to the airport unless I fought them in court. The only reasons stated for removal were my visitor status and my alleged 'sham' marriage.
The sham marriage angle was disproved beyond doubt and our mistake re: visitor status was acknowledged. The judged ruled in our favour.
I can only think that the visitor status which seemed to have made me illegal was the reason for DLR. I still don't understand the reasoning though. DLR in such a situation would only be punitive as the extra wait time for ILR would solve/accomplish nothing as it might if someone had failed the Life in the UK test or the English language requirement. In those cases more time would be needed to satisfy requirements.
My only other thought is, if maintenance was a factor, it would only be FUTURE maintenance concerns, their thinking that due to my husband's age, maybe he would not be able to support me in the future. If that was their reasoning, that reeks of age discrimination to me....like vultures circling, waiting for death, stroke or heart attack.
That's why I want to pursue the 'why' of DLR. I have to know why that designation.

[Amber]

Well your solicitor should be able to establish why you were granted DLR. You should have ideally left the Country and then applied, in that way, flr(m) may have been successful. To be honest, the old DLR although longer was arguably more favorable to people on a tight income. Nonetheless, it's longer, but you should expect to spend another 3 years on it.

[sydneylee]

sorry, a worrisome question....

Since Richmond Council said I must leave and not return in order for my husband to receive Benefits, we thought it was over for me in the UK. When I arrived in Canada, in order to survive financially, I applied for Medical Coverage and for Pension top-up (Guaranteed income Supplement). I have been approved for GIS but will not receive any money 'til Sept 11 (for the months of July and August). My Medical coverage will begin September 1. Should I cancel all of this or should I accept it. This is frightening. FLR(O) application does not ask questions that cover this situation but could it cause a problem?

Think I am going to be sick

[Amber]

You should try and get all the pension you're entitled to. The extra income may be used in the calculation of benefit entitlement but should have nothing to do with your immigration application. When you get back home (the UK ) also put in an application for Attendance Allowance for yourself.

[sydneylee]

Attendance Allowance for me??

[Amber]

Yes, you keep referring to yourself having health problems (sickness and disability) unless I have picked up on this wrong?

[sydneylee]

No, that's right. I was receiving Provincial Disability Benefits (beginning in 1993 when I left first marriage until 2010 when Old Age Pension kicked in). Post Traumatic Stress Disorder...too many beatings in childhood and abuse in marriage, can't hold down a job, must painstakingly plan my route to go anywhere, must control my surroundings, not people, just conditions. That's why this forced move and the preceding stress was so difficult. Vomit most days, like today when I panicked re: Benefits. Sleep is difficult, nightmares and stomach pain & acid reflux. Bunch of other symptoms.
Was scheduled for second stomach surgery when Hubby had stroke.

[Amber]

Then you must apply for Attendance Allowance. Though any further discussion of benefits should be made in the benefits forum (click) as we are digressing.

[sydneylee]

My Discretionary Leave expires November 1. I am in Canada at the moment. What will happen if I can't get back to the UK before November 1?
I'm afraid I won't be able to make the journey and then deal with the mess back there. I have contacted a legal aid Law firm to get some help. They don't even acknowledge my email. I notified our MP who said a caseworker would contact me or my husband the next day..that was a week ago. I contacted Richmond Council who sent me a form letter saying someone would look into the matter and get back to me in 15 days. My husband wears 'rose-coloured glasses' and says I'm negative and then makes a list of all the things I must do for him. His daughter tells her father that I am a thief who will just steal his money.....he has nothing and is on the verge of bankruptcy, by the way and I have maxed my credit card paying his bills because Richmond Council withheld his Benefits illegally. I need more time here to get my strength back. I will collapse under the weight of everything back there because there is no-one to help me.

As you can see, I am losing it! I just need to know what will happen if I can't get back before November 1. Sorry about the raving, not sleeping well and frightened to death.

[Amber]

You should get back before your current leave expires otherwise you could have difficulty not to mention added expense to regain entry.

Just stay focused that you're in the right and you need to get back to establish your rights which have been trodden on by numerous government/local government officials. The daughter in law will just be jealous of you, I wouldn't let her bother you. Ask your husband to also contact his MP and chase the matter as vitally urgent. Ask for your complaint with the council to be escalated and explain unless a prompt response is received you will take this matter to the Local Government Ombudsman. I would take it to the Ombudsman anyway once you're back for the way they have acted.

[sydneylee]

I'm trying to fill out an FLR(O) application and have some questions. Is it best for me to start another thread or continue here? Not sure how this works because we have certainly strayed a long way from my original query.
Thank you.

...and thank you, Amber, for your encouragement. It is very difficult to stay focused. My husband has contacted both our MP and Richmond Council. No replies but it is early yet. I'm hoping our MP and the Ombudsman will take some of the burden from me. I will be going home soon although I fight with myself every day. I need some rest and there won't be any for me for some time. Sometimes doing the right thing is just too difficult. On top of all this stuff, I have to deal with his debt and find us a new place to live as we're two floors up with no lift...he is housebound. Just too much to contend with and it's very quiet and peaceful here. So tempting!

[Amber]

You can continue here.

[sydneylee]

Queries re: questions on FLR(O) application

Section 1

1.5 - maiden name as on passport and in 1.4 or married name

1.10 - Home Office Reference #
UKBA reference # as on letter from them on November 1, 2010 re: Discretionary Leave?

Section 2

This is confusing because the wording seems like partner info. only if applying with me as dependent BUT later question re: partner - 'Is partner settled in UK' so seems like I do not include my British husband.
So do I fill out including husband's name or skip section 2 altogether.

If I include his name, what about question: 'Is your partner responsible for supporting anyone else not listed in section 2. ME??

End of section 2 - repetition of end of section 3?? Not sure what they want!

Section 3

Category Other, I assume

end of section 3 - again, not sure what is best to put in here. What letters?? documents??

Section 5

5.1
'Is your home in the UK....'
d) rented by relative or friend - my husband? OR
e) other. our home is rented from Housing Association by my husband...in his name only as it has been for 46 years (his first wife was not on agreement either - the English way, he says )
They were informed of my presence and acknowledge me but did not add my name to agreement because of my 'immigration status'.
If e) should I put the above as details?...without the rolling eyes, of course!

5.2 - NO because husband now has HB?

5.5 - I assume this is about myself only. BY the time I send this application in, carer's allowance and attendance allowance for me will not yet be in effect but will have been applied for.
So do I not tick any boxes and add above info in 5.6 box below? Everything else will be added in next box, 'income source'.

Section 6

6.11 - How long have I lived in the UK?
Do I count the first six months as visitor as in passport - 3 months as single living with friend (Nov 27, 2009 - March 2, 2010) plus 3 months married and living with husband (March 3, 2010 - May 27, 2010) or start counting from May 28, 2010??

6.12 - 2 children and 2 grandchildren. a lifetime of family and friends but not considered as 'ties'.

6:17 - repetition of 6.12?

6:18 - is this a good place to include hubby's disability, his need for my emotional and physical support and my need for support of his children, no support for us if in Canada?

Section 8

I am not claiming to be able to support myself without recourse to public funds so what evidence then?
Documents of my husband's income? All of which, other than State Pension is 'public funds'?
My bank statement from Canada re: Pensions? How many months?

Since March for the past 3 or 4 months my Pensions are deposited into my Canadian bank and I skip funds across through PayPal.

We had a joint account in England until my husband's stroke in January. It was in perpetual overdraft and his overdue loan is with same bank. I detached myself from account to protect my income and transferred pensions deposit to back to bank in Canada.

8L - documents for category O

Letter ? documents ? - again , a repetition of end of section 2 & 3

A good place to add letter from my husband, his doctor, family and friends re: his physical and emotional reliance on me?

Sorry, so many questions but I'm nervous and some questions seem repetitive and/or ambiguous.

Thanks so much for help.

[Amber]

Section 1:

You name that you use, if that’s your maiden name then state that, ideally the same name in other correspondence and applications. If you have changed your name then it’s a requirement to inform the UKBA.

Yes the Reference number of your DLR letter.

Section 2:

N/A

Section 3:

Other

Write extension of Discretionary Leave to Remain in box.

Section 5:

Just tick other and explain rented by my husband.

Well technically he still is liable for rent but it is covered by Housing Benefit, tick yes, and state the monthly rent, remember you’re allowed public funds so you can include the HB below. You need to get a letter from the Landlord stating it is ok for you to live there ideally.

Tick no to public funds, however, in 5.6 state that you are in the process of amending the benefit details to make the claims joint following numerous errors by local government officials.

In the income box in section 5 state all income including Housing Benefit.

Section 6:

Yes count all the time in UK

If you grandchildren and children are not ties then don’t put anything.

6.17 They’re trying to establish if you have a family life in Canada and thus don’t need one here. Just state the family.

6.18 This is the important section, detail how you provide emotional and psychological support to your severely disabled husband, how he cannot leave the Country due to his illnesses and when you are apart you suffer great emotional pains and anxiety constantly worrying about him. Explain that his health deteriorates when you are not there. Include medical evidence from his GP stating his is severely disabled suffered stroke etc. and that YOU provide emotional and psychological support which is key to his wellbeing, i.e. suffers depression when you are not there. Write as much as you can and include more on a separate piece of paper.

Section 8:

It’s not applicable as you can claim public funds. Just write a few lines on the letter you’ll include stating that your DLR allows you to claim public funds.

All the letters you wrote sound good, most important is the Drs letter and one from your MP would be ideal.

Remember to explain that you have been in Canada for a temporary stay and during that time both you and your husband had been distressed with increased anxiety and depression which has exacerbated both your health conditions.

[sydneylee]

Thank you very, very much

[sydneylee]

1) Should I be arranging to have my last name changed on my Canadian passport from maiden name to married name or should I leave it until after FLR(O)....or ???
UKBA has seen my marriage licence, knows I am married, used to correspond with me as Ms.....maiden name and now as Mrs...maiden name.

2) I will be going home in two or three weeks. The two other times I visited Canada over the past three years, upon return I get a nasty look and 'you've been refused leave in the past' (or words to that effect) and then have been taken to a cordoned-off area to sweat for ten or fifteen minutes. So I'm nervous now. If an agent asks me how long I've been away and why, should I tell them about the mess with Richmond Council or just say I was having an extended visit or a rest or what ???? Or does it matter ?

Sorry, just trying to 'get all my ducks in a row'.

By the way, my husband got his Attendance Allowance...something is going right....hopefully that's the beginning of a trend!

And our MP is on the case...good man!!

Thank you again

[Amber]

You should use whatever name you desire, it's acceptable to use your married name with the marriage certificate being sufficient evidence.

Just tell them you were briefly visiting Canada and are now headed back to your severely ill husband.

I'm glad he got his AA, least that's one less appeal, get your application in on return.

Good that your MP is working for you, keep on to him.