help needed urgently

[dalebutt]

There was a back and forth messages between my friend and Irish embassy in Germany, in the end they accepted and issued the visa within a few days, I could not find the excerpt of the correspondence, must have been deleted.

Dear Ms. xxxxx,

The 2004/38/EC Directive, implemented into Irish law under S.I. No. 226/2006, as well as the C-291/05 ECJ case refer to the rights and obligations of EU citizens and family members within the EU.
Specifically, the aforementioned case deals with residence permits and under which circumstances the Member State (e.g. Germany) where the EU worker is carrying out work (e.g. Germany) shall issue a residence permit to the family member of the EU citizen.
However, the ECJ case does not touch on the issuance of visas or the requirements of such, and the Directive does not lay out formalities as to the place to which such applications should be lodged.

Further to previous emails, all visa applicants must have a valid German residence permit to apply from the Irish Embassy in Germany. Otherwise, the application should be submitted to the Embassy where the applicant is normally resident/ has a resident permit /or is national of.
This does not, however, presuppose travelling to this country for the purpose of lodging the visa application.
Depending on the mission, this can be done either electronically or via post.
In the event that the visa is granted by the mission in question, the Embassy of Ireland in Germany is more than happy to facilitate printing of the sticker for your convenience.

We hope that this answers your query – should you, however, have any outstanding questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Kind regards,

Visa Section

Visa Section

[dalebutt]

----- Forwarded message -----
From: #BERLINEMVISA@dfa.ie
Date: Thu, Aug 8, 2013 09:29
Subject:

Dear xxxxx,

The Embassy is pleased to inform you that this visa has been granted and was posted out last Friday.

Kind regards,
Visa Section

[fcbayern]

yes I read that email but according to the Directive 2004/38/EC there is no legal requirement that the non-EU family member holds a specific immigration visa or status.

There is no legal requirement that:
•The EU citizen is already (or will be) living or working in a different EU member state
•The non-EU family member holds a specific immigration visa or status. It is fine for them to have a nationally issued visa or a student visa or a visitor’s visa or even implied status
•The family member apply in their country of origin
•The family member resides or previously resided in the EU/EEA (This older requirement of some member states was overturned in several ECJ cases, especially Metock)


There is also no legal requirement that you submit:
•bank statements
•pay slips
•letters from your present or future employer or school
•letters of reference
•proof that you will return at the end of the trip
•airline tickets
•confirmed hotel bookings
•references or guarantees from people in the destination country.

but in the end the embassy did issue the visa. so I guess its all well that ends well.

[dalebutt]

It wasn't as simple as that though, my friend prove a point they could not defend, the directive didn't specifically address that issue, but the spirit of the directive does means residence permit shouldn't be a requirement, if you read a very popular case law on this forum, Raducan Anor V MJELR in Ireland you will understand having a resident permit should not be a requirement, there were numerous case laws by the CJEU as well to strengthen your case.

[Brigid from Ireland]

'the Irish embassy here in Bucharest and they told me they needed to see joint bank accounts, current residence contract in Romania ( that is a house contract or a tenancy contract of the place where we are currently staying), hotel booking or a document which proves that we have a place to stay in Ireland'

The above are required for an unmarried couple (known as partners) only. In your case you submit the marriage certificate instead of the above. Do NOT submit any of the above, because they are not required and if you submit them you may be treated as an unmarried couple or as a person who does not know the law relating to a married couple (ie they may refuse your visa).

Submit the exact items required, and no more. This shows that you know the law and expect them to apply the law.

[fcbayern]

yeah but if we submit less documents than the chances of us getting our visa refused are high? its a strange situation and even the directive is not 100% clear about it.

[dalebutt]

What is it exactly that the directive isn't clear about? have you read the directive before you arrive at that opinion? It is pretty clear what documents are to be requested from a family member of an EU citizen. we can keep ping ponging back and forth it wouldn't change anything. Read the directive and learn more about your rights seems you haven't done

[fcbayern]

I have read the directive from top to bottom. Last week I had in fact called the Hungarian embassy in Bucharest and they told me that I needed to apply for the visa from Pakistan. It seems like they haven't read the directive or understood it?

[dalebutt]

I have read the directive from top to bottom. Last week I had in fact called the Hungarian embassy in Bucharest and they told me that I needed to apply for the visa from Pakistan. It seems like they haven't read the directive or understood it?

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j& ... uoRuucpx7A

That is the link to the directive not the other one you said you read from top to bottom.

https://ec.europa.eu/citizensrights/. Make enquiry with the Europeadvice they will usually reply back within a couple of days.

[fcbayern]

yes I've made an enquiry on the Europa website and hopefully they'll get back to me soon enough. I do appreciate all the feedback.