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The McCarthy judgement leaves many questions that might be clarified if another case came before the court. The circumstances of the case were somewhat unusual.chaoclive wrote:I still don't get it though.
They say working in a country of which you are a national doesn't count as exercising treaty rights...not sure how to read this one...
It is correct to say that this is not clear cut. A case that mirrored the circumstance of McCarthy would fail. Also, one that falls foul of the UK regulations would also fail.chaoclive wrote:I'm just concerned that you might run into problems in your application for EEA2. You got the visa, that the first main obstacle over with.
I would recommend that you contact the Law Centre (NI) when you get there. You can find their contact details here:
http://www.lawcentreni.org/about-us/contact-us.html
Dual nationality is a really sticky issue and I think that some legal advice wouldn't go amiss!
It's my understanding that the spouse or civil partner of a British National can apply for (UK) naturalisation after 3 years (the one concession that still seems to be there since it would be 5 years for others). See here: http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/briti ... ofcitizen/chaoclive wrote:The benefit of the Irish spouse visa is that it allows for naturalization after 3 years (instead of the 5 required under the UK/EEAFP rules), if you were interested in that.
Hey chaoclive, thanks for replying. Yeah, I really don't want to go down that road either, tbh, unless we managed to get into the UK directly from here (Irish passport) and lived on the mainland (Edinburgh would be the most likely destination in that case, since we both have lots of connections there).chaoclive wrote:Hey there
Yeah - sounds like we're stuck in the boat indeed...and in the same part of the world. haha.
I'm still going with the Surinder Singh route via another EU country.
I've never considered the UK spouse visa (finances...) but I've noticed that some people say that it's now 5 years for citizenship too...I must be wrong as the websites says 3 years. That's good news but I won't be able to go down that route
The residential requirement period for spouse of BC is 3 years. However, naturalisation requires ILR (or PR under the EU route) which following the changes last year can only be obtained after 5 years of residence so effectively although only the last 3 years are considered for naturalisation (in terms of meeting the requirements such as days of absence), one can only apply after 5 years in the country.stupot wrote: It's my understanding that the spouse or civil partner of a British National can apply for (UK) naturalisation after 3 years (the one concession that still seems to be there since it would be 5 years for others). See here: http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/briti ... ofcitizen/
Well that's disappointing. Why do they even mention the 3 years above I wonder.You must be free from immigration time restrictions on the day you make your application. This often means having already gained settled status before you make your citizenship application. How and when you are eligible for settled status will depend on the immigration category you were in and successfully meeting its requirements for indefinite leave to enter or remain. For example spouses and civil partners of British citizens who must complete a 5 year probationary period under Appendix FM would generally have the opportunity to apply for naturalisation on this basis once they complete the 5 year period and obtain indefinite leave to remain provided they can also meet the other requirements of naturalisation at that time.
You're welcome stupot. I'm glad this is beneficial others, we certainly had alot of questions when starting this process, and probably will continue to as time moves on. A good link for probably accurate, consolidated info is http://www.lawcentreni.org/EoR/immigrat ... tions.htmlstupot wrote:Hi all, new poster here (hello). Signed up specifically because of this thread.
Firstly, jbminger, thanks so much for starting this thread (and for updating it). It gives me hope (I'm dual British/Irish from Northern Ireland and I'm currently in Taiwan with my Taiwanese wife and two kids).
I have one question that doesn't appear to have been asked (sorry if I've missed it). In your application was your working history/residency in Ireland required at all, or was it the wife's Irish passport (and possibly residency in Ireland) solely that got you in?
Thanks for your reply, jbminger.jbminger wrote:Required...I believe yes, as part of the Surinder Singh route, one must prove that they lived/worked together with their EEA spouse in the other member state. IMHO, it was necessary to prove this.stupot wrote:Hi all, new poster here (hello). Signed up specifically because of this thread.
Firstly, jbminger, thanks so much for starting this thread (and for updating it). It gives me hope (I'm dual British/Irish from Northern Ireland and I'm currently in Taiwan with my Taiwanese wife and two kids).
I have one question that doesn't appear to have been asked (sorry if I've missed it). In your application was your working history/residency in Ireland required at all, or was it the wife's Irish passport (and possibly residency in Ireland) solely that got you in?
Was it required? I don't know for certain, but I did provide pay slips from my employer in Dublin along with utility bills in both of our names, as well as my (now expired) GNIB immigration card.
Let me know if you have any other questions, I'll do my best to answer them.
I believe that I am entering the UK with my dual national (UK/Irish) spouse who is returning to the UK. We submitted my wife's UK birth certificate with the application as well as her Irish passport. She doesn't currently have a valid UK passport.stupot wrote:My confusion lies in the fact that (as I understand it) you and your wife are not strictly "returning" to the UK, but rather going there as Irish (and spouse of Irish). So in that case I'm just wondering how important that "working in Ireland" information was. This is of great interest to me because my wife and I are in a similar situation EXCEPT that we have not lived together in a European country other than the UK. We are currently in Taiwan (ten years now), and I lived in Spain for five years just before I met her. So your Ireland residency/employment is the key difference between your situation and ours.
Thanks again for any info at all that you can share. It's a very unique situation this Northern Irish dual-nationality thing and you are the first person I've seen successfully finding a way to use it to your advantage. I'm extremely happy for you.
From: http://www.lawcentreni.org/EoR/immigrat ... tions.html3.1 In order to be able to benefit from EU law provisions, the EEA national must normally, amongst other things, be outside of his/her country of citizenship.
The Court of Justice of the European Union (CJEU), in the case of McCarthy C-343/09, looked at whether a dual British/Irish citizen who had lived all her life in the UK and had never moved across EU borders, could rely on her Irish citizenship to support her husband’s application for a residence card under EU law. The Court decided, amongst other things, that she could not. Following the judgment in McCarthy and as introduced in the 2012 amendments to the 2006 Regulations, a person holding dual citizenship must have exercised his/her right of free movement in order to rely on their European citizenship under EU Law to support an application by a non-EEA family member.
A dual citizen who has never exercised his/her right of free movement and has always resided in the Member State of which s/he is a national cannot be said to be a beneficiary of the Citizen’s Directive. It no longer makes any difference that the citizen in question is also a national of a Member State other than that where s/he resides. This means that family members are also unable to derive a right of residence under the Directive on the basis of their relationship to such a national. Therefore, a dual British/Irish citizen in Northern Ireland can no longer rely on his/her Irish citizenship to support an application for a non-EEA family member, if that dual British/Irish citizen has lived all of his/her life in the UK.
It remains to be seen how these 2012 amendments will be interpreted by the courts.