FAQ - consolidating knowledge about recent Tax discrepancies

[abhisheks9]

Based on recent cases, in this forum, of ILR being rejected based on tax discrepancies, i am trying to understand specific scenarios where this is happening and thus helping future applicant where to look for gaps.
Following are my understanding, feel free to correct/acknowledge:
1) UKVI checks Previous record of Tax/earnings in HMRC database, for period of earlier visa/extensions claimed by applicants?
This means for period of month or year not used by applicant to claim earnings point, UKVI will disregard or won't care.
2) Most of tax discrepancies cases found in this forum are for year 2013 and earlier? My guess is year later than 2013, UKVI evolved efficiently enough to do real time checking with HMRC DB (also disclosure DB). This raises question, on why at this stage previous tax discrepancy was not found but only later when applicant came back with ILR application?
3) (applicable to self-employed)
In case of self-employed how UKVI knows if there is NO or less tax paid, considering self-assessment is done in end of financial year and not everyone shows exact financial year range earning to claim point

Note: all above applicable to Tier-1 G applicants

[aaatech]

Interesting!!

have you observed cases where P60 reflect correct tax but not in HMRC database. what was outcomes of such cases? It is employer responsibility as I was never aware of HMRC work history record request before visiting this forum. How/Why applicant know that all clear tax matters by employer?

[abhisheks9]

never noticed till most recent post in this forum highlighted fraudulent P60.
I personally never failed to get P45/P60 from employers, and have all from last 5 yrs, but now really shocked to know some employees are fooled with fake P60s/payslips.

My real objective of thread is to understand particularly in regards to ILR application.

[sifanaeem]

Below are cases of 2 of my close friends:

Friend #1:
Tier 1 G in 2011 May with Self Employed and Salaried
Tier 1 G Extension 2014 May with Self Employed and Salaried
ILR 2016 April, Croydon, Approved (ILR rejected for spouse as she hadn't completed 5 years and was mislead by the lawyer)
Noticed a difference of £2000 in SA returns and the figure shown to HO in 2011 before the appointment but was too late to amend and went ahead with PEO application on the last day of his visa.
No questionnaire given.
Was asked about his SA302 for 2013 as he didnt submit it, but didn't ask anything else.

Friend #2:
Tier 1 G in 2011 April with Self Employed and Salaried
Tier 1 G Extension 2014 April with Self Employed and Salaried
ILR 2016 March, Cardiff, Approved
£3500 difference in SA return and Tier G application in 2011. Wrote to HMRC in Jan 2016 to amend the records, HMRC refused to amend in March 2016 citing it's too late to amend. Went to the PEO with the letter from HMRC. No questions asked about discrepancies.
No questionnaire given.

[aamirwani]

Below are cases of 2 of my close friends:

Friend #1:
Tier 1 G in 2011 May with Self Employed and Salaried
Tier 1 G Extension 2014 May with Self Employed and Salaried
ILR 2016 April, Croydon, Approved (ILR rejected for spouse as she hadn't completed 5 years and was mislead by the lawyer)
Noticed a difference of £2000 in SA returns and the figure shown to HO in 2011 before the appointment but was too late to amend and went ahead with PEO application on the last day of his visa.
No questionnaire given.
Was asked about his SA302 for 2013 as he didnt submit it, but didn't ask anything else.

Friend #2:
Tier 1 G in 2011 April with Self Employed and Salaried
Tier 1 G Extension 2014 April with Self Employed and Salaried
ILR 2016 March, Cardiff, Approved
£3500 difference in SA return and Tier G application in 2011. Wrote to HMRC in Jan 2016 to amend the records, HMRC refused to amend in March 2016 citing it's too late to amend. Went to the PEO with the letter from HMRC. No questions asked about discrepancies.
No questionnaire given.

Sifanaeem Your friends are very lucky.
Your said your first friend was asked for SA302 by caseworker. Did he then submit one ?

[sifanaeem]

Yes, he had a copy with him which he didn't supply.

[geriatrix]

So there's no consistency about how each caseworker may deal with the application!
Down to one's luck on the day then!!

[sifanaeem]

Yes, for friend #1 the cw was a an older lady (possibly a 2nd generation Indian), she admitted to him that she doesn't understand the tax affairs much.

[geriatrix]

The issue here is more to do with training the caseworkers about the how each application should be assessed in case of tax discrepancies against HMRC records that the caseworker are able to access on their systems ..... rather than a caseworker's ability (or lack of) to understand "tax affairs".

[Casa]

The issue here is more to do with training the caseworkers about the how each application should be assessed in case of tax discrepancies against HMRC records that the caseworker are able to access on their systems ..... rather than a caseworker's ability (or lack of) to understand "tax affairs".

geriatrix's post here is a good example of why we advise time and time again, not to apply through the PSC where the Case Workers are generally only at junior level, when verification of tax is required.

[aamirwani]

Yes, he had a copy with him which he didn't supply.

Sorry I don't get this.
If he had the required SA302 then why didn't he submit it.

[sifanaeem]

He apparently had a printed copy of it with him but didnt give it with the application as he didn't want them to dig it. But when they called him to the counter and asked him, he gave it, he was 100% certain that his application would be rejected but he was pleasantly surprised when the lady came back with a positive result.

Cheers

[aamirwani]

He apparently had a printed copy of it with him but didnt give it with the application as he didn't want them to dig it. But when they called him to the counter and asked him, he gave it, he was 100% certain that his application would be rejected but he was pleasantly surprised when the lady came back with a positive result.

Cheers

I take it that sa302 was a non amended copy and the self employment profit on that matched with the HO records.

[Immigrantshimmigrant]

He apparently had a printed copy of it with him but didnt give it with the application as he didn't want them to dig it. But when they called him to the counter and asked him, he gave it, he was 100% certain that his application would be rejected but he was pleasantly surprised when the lady came back with a positive result.

Cheers

Hi sifanaeem and geriatric ... it seems that in both cases there were "small" amounts involved. If returns were different by 2 to 3.5k then tax difference would be low and the "small" tax difference will probably not seem to indicate deception as the benefit to the applicant is small.

There have been cases which I have seen here on the forum where the tax difference was large (in some cases 20k!!) which indicates deliberate changes

[kirankhalil75]

HI everyone

there is also one very important question, that Why Home Office have access to HMRC database till Jan 2015 ?

as i have seen at least two refusal for this reason ............. both have filed self assessment before application and paid the correct taxes.

[sunymalik]

[quote="Immigrantshimmigrant"][quote="sifanaeem"]He apparently had a printed copy of it with him but didnt give it with the application as he didn't want them to dig it. But when they called him to the counter and asked him, he gave it, he was 100% certain that his application would be rejected but he was pleasantly surprised when the lady came back with a positive result.

Cheers[/quote]

Hi sifanaeem and geriatric ... it seems that in both cases there were "small" amounts involved. If returns were different by 2 to 3.5k then tax difference would be low and the "small" tax difference will probably not seem to indicate deception as the benefit to the applicant is small.

There have been cases which I have seen here on the forum where the tax difference was large (in some cases 20k!!) which indicates deliberate changes[/quote]

Hi,

it doesn't matter whether tax difference is 3.5k or 35k......its not like HO only consider large amount as a deception.....even I have seen many cases where difference is even just £200 pound and they still got refused.....so its all depend on luck and the CW who deal
your case..........

[abhisheks9]

@sifanaeem Thanks for your input

HI everyone

there is also one very important question, that Why Home Office have access to HMRC database till Jan 2015 ?

as i have seen at least two refusal for this reason ............. both have filed self assessment before application and paid the correct taxes.

@kiranKhalil can you throw more light on this?
After Jan-2015 HMRC no longer have access to HMRC to check tax details?
but all refusals are based on very old cases as i mentioned in original comment for period 2013 or earlier

It will be interesting for all of us to understand how case worker handles ILR application specific to checking with HMRC for all previous tax records of applicants.

[kirankhalil75]

Hi Abishake

pls see the post below in which he mention about his refusal. i have seen one more similar case


ILR Refused for late ammendments
Postby mk_engr » Thu Mar 31, 2016 5:38 pm

Hello everybody,
I just want to share that my application for Tier 1 General to ILR has been refused due to late ammendments in the tax returns. I got my tier 1 General in April 2011 by showing the mix amount of income as employed and self employed. I went to PEO on 25th of March 2016. However, all my tax liabilities were updated and paid on the HMRC website a week ago as per the figures i gave to home office in intial application. However, Home Office said the HMRC data available as of Janurary 2015. So, amended return for year 10-11 which has been amended in Feburary 2016 is not accessible for them. They said still my old income is showing on their system.
My only query is if as of 25th March 2016 my tax is fully paid on the date of application as per my intial application then how can they refuse it. I know I made an error in first instance while filling the return of 10-11, however, HMRC accepted it then how can Home Office refuse it. I have 14 days for Adm Review and time is running out so please someone who already gone through this process and victorious can share the experience.
Regards

[kirankhalil75]

and here is one more



Re: ILR Refused @ PEO - LTD Company Director
Postby devdl » Sat Apr 30, 2016 11:52 am

Hi @AML
I to had a an appointment on 29th april for Ilr(tier 1 general) and it has being refused under paragraph 245CD, they said they checked the HMRC records Jan 15 and according to them i haven't filled my SA for the following year (2010,2011-12, 2012-13, 2013-14) but according to my accountant i do not need to file SA as below threshold. I applied my personal UTR number in Nov 2015 and in Jan 2016 i apllied for SA for the following years (2010,2011,2012,2013,2014,2015) and as well attached the copies of SA till 2016.I also attached CT600 for the aboe following years and paid all the taxes for the following years.I have to apply for AR by 11th of May and my Visa is getting expired on 18th of May 2016.Please provide me the guidance as you are as well under the same circumstances and what documents need to be attached for AR.

[smeer123]

HI everyone

there is also one very important question, that Why Home Office have access to HMRC database till Jan 2015 ?

as i have seen at least two refusal for this reason ............. both have filed self assessment before application and paid the correct taxes.

Hi kirankhalil.....I think u ve been to interview today.....how was it...wat questions did they ask u..?....thanks

[Wanderer]

I've yet to see this 'threshhold rule' - AIUI ALL company directors have to fill in an SA302 and it's part of a directors duties to know this.

[abhisheks9]

@kirankhalil75
make sense now, since even HMRC won't give you history for last financial yr of 2015-2016, but only for years before apr-2015.
Seems like HMRC doesn't update for recent year

[wasi36]

HMRC has not given live access to home office. They gave them data which is untill Jan 2015. If home office gets latest data then they won't be able to see any amendments. When we send recalculated tax records after amenments. First they check with records they already have then send it hmrc for confirmation. There is no other tool to see amendments. If sa302 is updated in 2016 then your old sa302 replaces with new one. But home office sees only old one

[kirankhalil75]

@ wasi36

but what in my case.
i never have UTR Number as my income threshold is below 42,000 GBP so accountant say Self Assessment is not require by law as far you pay the Corporation tax you are fine, which i paid same year.

now i meet with solicitor and he advice to apply for UTR Number and file tax return for 2012-13, in which i was director of LTD Company.

Apply UTR in Jan 2016 and file Self Assessment in March 2016, ( Pls note there is no Amendments) only late filling....

so according to Home Office, if they have HMRC Database till Jan 2015, its mean they cannot see my total income for year 12/13 in which i applied for Tier G ext. and i claim 26 Salary + 12 K Dividend.

what do you think about this !!!

[Aditi12]

@ wasi36

but what in my case.
i never have UTR Number as my income threshold is below 42,000 GBP so accountant say Self Assessment is not require by law as far you pay the Corporation tax you are fine, which i paid same year.

now i meet with solicitor and he advice to apply for UTR Number and file tax return for 2012-13, in which i was director of LTD Company.

Apply UTR in Jan 2016 and file Self Assessment in March 2016, ( Pls note there is no Amendments) only late filling....

so according to Home Office, if they have HMRC Database till Jan 2015, its mean they cannot see my total income for year 12/13 in which i applied for Tier G ext. and i claim 26 Salary + 12 K Dividend.

what do you think about this !!!

Hi Kirankhalil

I am in a similar situation I my application is with homeoffice since Jan 2016 haven't heard anything yet. I just realised that my accountant didn't file my self assessment for year 14/15..which was due is 2016. I didn't even have a utr number as he didn't even register me for that. I just realised it now. Havr applied for utr number and when I receive it (hopefully within 2 weeks) I will pay whatever if I owe anything.
I wanted to check did you had an interview ? Have you heard anything as mine will be the same case no amendment or anything just will b late filing for sa.

Would like some feedback

Thanks