137 Pages EEA application form, what for exactly

[Choi Saab]

Hi all,
My wife, an EEA national, will be completing her 5 years as a qualified person (according to our understanding) on 17/10/16. Here's the summary
Moved to the UK 18/10/11
Started full time employment 01/01/12
Voluntary maternity leave starts 01/02/13
Voluntary maternity leave ends 01/09/13 (7 months gap but resumed work with same employer)
Employed full time ever since. I'm planning on sending the following as evidence to establish worker status covering the 5 years, Cover letter, All P60s, latest tax year wage slips, Travel ticket proving the day she entered the UK i.e. 18/10/11

Q1: Do we count the first 2 months and few days while she was looking for a job or her 5 year period starts from the 1st day at work?

Q2: Whats the earliest we can send the application?

Q3: Do we have to provide every single pay slip or just all P60s and wage slips for latest tax year from April 2016 onwards will be enough? (trying to avoid highlighting the 7 month gap)

Q4: Do we have to provide any other documents to prove residency or the fact that she has been in active employment throughout is enough?

Q5: Child & working tax credits and council housing have any effects on PR (or Naturalisation later)?

Q6: Best method of payment for non-Form application?

Thank you in advance to everyone for any input.

[noajthan]

...

Q1: Do we count the first 2 months and few days while she was looking for a job or her 5 year period starts from the 1st day at work?

Q2: Whats the earliest we can send the application?

Q3: Do we have to provide every single pay slip or just all P60s and wage slips for latest tax year from April 2016 onwards will be enough? (trying to avoid highlighting the 7 month gap)

Q4: Do we have to provide any other documents to prove residency or the fact that she has been in active employment throughout is enough?

Q5: Child & working tax credits and council housing have any effects on PR (or Naturalisation later)?

Q6: Best method of payment for non-Form application?

Thank you in advance to everyone for any input.

1) No, not if outside any recognisable (& documented) qualified person category.

2) After automatically acquiring PR ie after 5 years of continuously exercising treaty rights as a qualified person

3) Not every pay slip.
Don't try to hide the gap - that is the first step down the road to a world of pain.

Wife (should have) retained worker status whilst on maternity leave. Just needs good (if not unimpeachable) documentary supporting evidence (as is the case for the complete application and the entire qualifying period).

4) Yes. A lot. Read the PR guidance

Did I mention good (if not unimpeachable) documentary supporting evidence is required.
Covering identity, residency in UK, absences from UK and treaty rights (& etc).

Travel ticket, although a nice touch, is not required for confirmation of PR.

5) Not if entitled to claim.
And no, economic activity is not a requirement for the privilege of citizenship (assuming all above board so that 'good character' requirement is completely satisfied).

6) Use payment form from latest PR form (or application will fail).

[Choi Saab]

Hey noajthan, thanx for your input.
What do you mean by No regarding Q1 please, 5 years start from date of moving to the UK or from day 1 at job?

regarding Q3, not mentioning the gap in my application letter equals to 'hiding the information'? i just dont want them to use that as an excuse to waste plenty of our time and money. If we send P60s for all previous years and wage slips for latest year is that sufficient?
the evidence we have for maternity leave is just our sons birth certificate because at the time we didnt claim maternity benefits or anything else. she simply took a voluntary leave and went back when she felt she was ready, in the meantime i was working so we didnt apply any benefits. This is the ONLY part in her application that im really concerned about. has anyone had a similar situation?

[noajthan]

Hey noajthan, thanx for your input.
What do you mean by No regarding Q1 please, 5 years start from date of moving to the UK or from day 1 at job?

regarding Q3, not mentioning the gap in my application letter equals to 'hiding the information'? i just dont want them to use that as an excuse to waste plenty of our time and money. If we send P60s for all previous years and wage slips for latest year is that sufficient?
the evidence we have for maternity leave is just our sons birth certificate because at the time we didnt claim maternity benefits or anything else. she simply took a voluntary leave and went back when she felt she was ready, in the meantime i was working so we didnt apply any benefits. This is the ONLY part in her application that im really concerned about. has anyone had a similar situation?

1) Day 1 from valid job.
Just being in UK is not equal to exercising treaty rights by being a qualified person.

3) Yes, suppressing material facts is hiding information.
Suggest reading the Declaration you will sign on the form vouching for your application.

Let the caseworker decide what they need to use and what to disregard as per their rules and processes (oh, and EU law).

For maternity leave, there must be some papertrail to/from employer.
Applicant will also have to show they were in UK (if they were).

Many people take maternity leave. Many get their confirmation of PR.
As long as documentary supporting evidence is rock-solid your application will be rock-solid. (Still no guarantees though).

[Choi Saab]

Thanx for clarifying.
I will not be using any application forms so I'm not signing any declarations. How about I provide material that the EU law deems sufficient? I mean I really want to keep it light and simple. Had to fight a very tough battle over 2 years for my RC, in the end had to take it to the parliamentary ombudsman via MP. Don't want to go through the pain again.

If I send P60s covering the first 4 years and pay slips covering the last year, would that be sensible?

Regarding maternity, the employer was notified of the pregnancy but there was no written leave grant or anything of that sort. Just a verbal request that was granted and the manager said 'let us know when you will be ready to resume the job'. So basically it's a birth certificate confirming the pregnancy in the said period and lack of income for 7 straight months.

[noajthan]

1) Day 1 from valid job.
Just being in UK is not equal to exercising treaty rights by being a qualified person.

I though the requirement in Regulation 15(1)(a) and (b) was to have been resident "in accordance with these Regulations for a continuous period of five years". On the other hand, it is probably safer to rely only on a period covered by the EEA partner being a 'qualified person'.

No suppose about it.
You have seen many times what happens to Union citizens who come to UK and don't fall into any category of qualified person (or dependent thereof), or can't prove it.

And the re-quote of my quote is taken out of context. Read topic from start.

[Richard W]

You have seen many times what happens to Union citizens who come to UK and don't fall into any category of qualified person (or dependent thereof).

In most of the cases I have noticed, the Union citizen was in the UK unlawfully, their right to be in the UK having lapsed. That does not appear to apply to the OP's wife. In this case, the period in question is part of the largely unconditional initial 3 months of residence.

The exceptional cases were dual nationals or Irish citizens.

[noajthan]

Thanx for clarifying.
I will not be using any application forms so I'm not signing any declarations. How about I provide material that the EU law deems sufficient? I mean I really want to keep it light and simple. Had to fight a very tough battle over 2 years for my RC, in the end had to take it to the parliamentary ombudsman via MP. Don't want to go through the pain again.

If I send P60s covering the first 4 years and pay slips covering the last year, would that be sensible?

Regarding maternity, the employer was notified of the pregnancy but there was no written leave grant or anything of that sort. Just a verbal request that was granted and the manager said 'let us know when you will be ready to resume the job'. So basically it's a birth certificate confirming the pregnancy in the said period and lack of income for 7 straight months.

The point about the Declaration still stands.
There seems to be a kind of immigration karma that tends to manifest itself when least expected (least wanted) somewhere down the line.
Honesty (and disclosure of material facts) is the best policy.

I think you are probably aware HO is not always compliant with EU law.
Simply asserting verbal agreements is going to be hard to prove.
HO caseworkers prove time after time they are not usually/naturally disposed to giving benefit of doubt.

All these requirements are well-known, it would have been prudent to generate a papertrail even if only for immigration purposes.
You really need rock-solid if not unimpeachable documentary supporting evidence.

Pro tip: Always look one visa or application ahead, procure the paperwork, cultivate the potential referees (or whatever it may be),

Anyway, you are where you are and you will have to work with what you've got.
However there is nothing to stop you asking for an employer to confirm in writing what you are asserting eg about maternity leave..

For example, we've seen members here who are long-standing married couples who present marriage certificates being refused (sometimes), for having an invalid relationship or marriage of convenience (even when patently genuine).
The point being: don't rely on single pieces of evidence (single points of failure) for any aspect of the application.
After all, why give HO the Spam of 'wriggle room'.

[noajthan]

You have seen many times what happens to Union citizens who come to UK and don't fall into any category of qualified person (or dependent thereof).

In most of the cases I have noticed, the Union citizen was in the UK unlawfully, their right to be in the UK having lapsed. That does not appear to apply to the OP's wife. In this case, the period in question is part of the largely unconditional initial 3 months of residence.

The exceptional cases were dual nationals or Irish citizens.

And the 'grace period' whether swanning about or settling in or whatever, does not count towards acquiring PR. If its cast-iron treaty rights its a different matter.
Free movement 101.

[vinny]

Home Office confirms that official EEA series application forms are not mandatory.

[hannes7]

It's a very time-consuming process. I even do not understand why it is necessary to provide biometric data for the EEA(FM) of the non-EU. The EEA(FM)-certificate is just a sticker in the passport.

And to make it even more inapprehensible, when you just go to the boarder with a marriage-certificate, the non-EU will get an "EEA Dependent"-stamp in the passport which is basically the same as the sticker - without any fee!

[secret.simon]

Home Office confirms that official EEA series application forms are not mandatory.

Just as a quick update to Vinny's earlier post, from 1st February 2017, all applications for EEA documentation will have to be made on the specified Home Office form (Regulation 21).

Interestingly, all applications for either a residence card or a derivative residence card (I presume that covers both Chen and Zambrano derivatives) must be made from within the UK (Regulation 21(3) above).

And to make it even more inapprehensible, when you just go to the boarder with a marriage-certificate, the non-EU will get an "EEA Dependent"-stamp in the passport which is basically the same as the sticker - without any fee!

I could be wrong, but that is the equivalent of a Family Permit, not a Residence Card.

To the best of my knowledge, a Residence Card of a non-EEA family member does contain biometric information and is a separate card.

The passport sticker that you mention is most likely a Family Permit that is valid for only six months and is generally only granted for actually entering the UK.

[hannes7]

Home Office confirms that official EEA series application forms are not mandatory.

Just as a quick update to Vinny's earlier post, from 1st February 2017, all applications for EEA documentation will have to be made on the specified Home Office form (Regulation 21).

Interestingly, all applications for either a residence card or a derivative residence card (I presume that covers both Chen and Zambrano derivatives) must be made from within the UK (Regulation 21(3) above).

And to make it even more inapprehensible, when you just go to the boarder with a marriage-certificate, the non-EU will get an "EEA Dependent"-stamp in the passport which is basically the same as the sticker - without any fee!

I could be wrong, but that is the equivalent of a Family Permit, not a Residence Card.

To the best of my knowledge, a Residence Card of a non-EEA family member does contain biometric information and is a separate card.

The passport sticker that you mention is most likely a Family Permit that is valid for only six months and is generally only granted for actually entering the UK.

I'm not quite sure, if the british goverment intended to establish a barrier by confusing people using similar names for different visa. In my situation it worked perfectly and created a wonderful confusion

[noajthan]

There are no visas in EU migration context.

EU documentation is mandated by EU Directive not dictated by UK gov; (simply transposed into UK law from EU law and the Directive).

[hannes7]

There are no visas in EU migration context.

EU documentation is mandated by EU Directive not dictated by UK gov; (simply transposed into UK law from EU law and the Directive).

You are right!

[guidogessa]

Hi, yesterday I received my PR card, after applying four months ago with the alternative form that I found on this forum (EEA3_simple_V2). I now want to help my partner to submit her application (we are both Italian). I read here that from February 2017 the rules will change, and the official form will be mandatory. Does that mean that applications received before February 2017 can still be done without that form? If in February a home office's caseworker reviews an application received the month before and made without the official form, will he reject it? Any ideas?

[ohara]

I read here that from February 2017 the rules will change, and the official form will be mandatory

Do you have a link to where you have read that

[guidogessa]

see this message from this thread. I also saw this mentioned several times on The 3 Million facebook forum

Home Office confirms that official EEA series application forms are not mandatory.

Just as a quick update to Vinny's earlier post, from 1st February 2017, all applications for EEA documentation will have to be made on the specified Home Office form (Regulation 21).

[noajthan]

Just as a quick update to Vinny's earlier post, from 1st February 2017, all applications for EEA documentation will have to be made on the specified Home Office form (Regulation 21).

But that Regulation does not sit comfortably with the cleaner, purer EU law.

And there is an exception

the Secretary of State may accept an application submitted by post or in person which does not use the relevant application form specified by the Secretary of State.

[mersmers]

Help please . I need advice
I have sent an application for permanent residence as family member of eea. After 4 weeks my father in law he passed away my eea wife she went to her embassy to get emergency travel document , she told them my passport it's with the home office and it takes 10 days to get it back . they issued for her an emergency travel document to able to travel and they cancel her existing passport . And they ask her to make a new passport . My question what's gonna happen to my application because my wife eea passport it's not valid anymore and it's with the home now . Do I have to send her new passport or what do I have to do in this case ? Thanks .

[Choi Saab]

Hello everyone,
Thank you noajthan and Richard for your valuable input.

Now that we've completed the five years qualifying period and are ready to submit the application, i realise that from the 1st of Feb'17 the monstrous and intrusive EEA PR form becomes mandatory which i'm sure is not lawful.

If i take up the challenge and go ahead with making an application without using a form and they deemed the application invalid for this reason, do we get an appeal? Is it worth fighting for?

If i give in and fill in the form, skipping the non relevant questions i.e. Section 16(PUBLIC FUNDS) in case of a 'worker' and/or 'good character'. Would they still reject the application as 'invalid' or 'incomplete' ? If they did, what next?

Whats the best thing to do at this stage?

[noajthan]

You now have to use the designated form unless you can justify why not.

[secret.simon]

the monstrous and intrusive EEA PR form becomes mandatory which i'm sure is not lawful.

Why would prescribing a form be unlawful? There is nothing in the Directive that I could find that says that imposing a standard form is unlawful. Inconvenience does not equal unlawfulness.

[Choi Saab]

the monstrous and intrusive EEA PR form becomes mandatory which i'm sure is not lawful.

Why would prescribing a form be unlawful? There is nothing in the Directive that I could find that says that imposing a standard form is unlawful. Inconvenience does not equal unlawfulness.

Article 8(3) of the Directive states "For the registration certificate to be issued, Member States may only require that
– Union citizens to whom point (a) of Article 7(1) applies present a valid identity card or
passport, a confirmation of engagement from the employer or a certificate of employment, or
proof that they are self-employed persons;" theres no mention of a mandatory application form.

Also, is the form itself lawful if it forces the applicant to give information that is irrelevant?

Please also advise about skipping non relevant sections in the form as mentioned earlier.

Any and all input welcome and highly appreciated.

[secret.simon]

Article 8(3) of the Directive states "For the registration certificate to be issued, Member States may only require that
– Union citizens to whom point (a) of Article 7(1) applies present a valid identity card or
passport, a confirmation of engagement from the employer or a certificate of employment, or
proof that they are self-employed persons;" theres no mention of a mandatory application form.

I must say I am not convinced. The specific paragraph that you have quoted, it seems to me, applied only to Registration Certificates for EEA citizens, the outcome of an EEA(QP) application.

It does not make such a limiting provision for even TCN family members of EEA citizens during their applications for Registration Cards and there is no parallel provision limiting documentation for PR application for either EEA citizens or their TCN family members.

Article 19
Document certifying permanent residence for Union citizens
1. Upon application Member States shall issue Union citizens entitled to permanent residence,after having verified duration of residence, with a document certifying permanent residence.
2. The document certifying permanent residence shall be issued as soon as possible.

Article 20
Permanent residence card for family members who are not nationals of a Member State
1. Member States shall issue family members who are not nationals of a Member State entitled to permanent residence with a permanent residence card within six months of the submission of the application. The permanent residence card shall be renewable automatically every ten years.
2. The application for a permanent residence card shall be submitted before the residence card expires. Failure to comply with the requirement to apply for a permanent residence card may render the person concerned liable to proportionate and non-discriminatory sanctions.