Post Brexit Discussion

[Obie]

Guys we need to stay on topic. We cannot allow this thread to degenerate.

The issue here is post Brexit discussion. The debate should be surrounded by the Article 50 issue, and UK departure from the EU.

[Casa]

There are measures in place for parts of the UK to seek seccession should they want to.

There is actually no such general measure.

The Scottish Referendum was held after an Act was passed by the Westminster Parliament, after discussion with and advice from the Scottish government. There is no general law that would allow Scotland or Wales or NI to call a referendum if they feel like it.

Not quite true. They can ask Westminster to allow them to hold such a referendum. This is what happened with the recent Scottish vote. So there is a procedure with precedent. The Prime Minister can refuse. But when/if that happens in the next two years, whoever the PM will be will almost certainly be a strong Brexit advocate. It would be the height of hypocracy piled on top of hypocracy if that Prime Minister, who likely has fought so hard for 'independence', told a Scotland which just recent voted to remain in the UK based on their assured continued membership in the EU, and recently voted by very large majority to remain in the EU, that while England can have independence, Scotland cannot. They'd be a laughing stock.

An Act is passed by Parliament, not by the Prime Minister.

[ouflak1]

Not quite true. They can ask Westminster to allow them to hold such a referendum. This is what happened with the recent Scottish vote. So there is a procedure with precedent. The Prime Minister can refuse. But when/if that happens in the next two years, whoever the PM will be will almost certainly be a strong Brexit advocate. It would be the height of hypocracy piled on top of hypocracy if that Prime Minister, who likely has fought so hard for 'independence', told a Scotland which just recent voted to remain in the UK based on their assured continued membership in the EU, and recently voted by very large majority to remain in the EU, that while England can have independence, Scotland cannot. They'd be a laughing stock.

An Act is passed by Parliament, not by the Prime Minister.

The previous procedure was to give their official intention to the Prime Minister who then presented it to parliament. The Prime Minister can refuse to do so thus killing the measure right then. This has all been recently discussed on BBC, which I've been watching far too much of in the last couple of days.

[ILR1980]

There are measures in place for parts of the UK to seek seccession should they want to. This has been execised recently. If you don't like it, write your MP and have them change the laws of land so that such things are not possible. Until such time, if these separate parts of the kingdom wish to consider leaving, that is their right.

I am just saying that this debate is now useless that x voted for leave y voted for remain and under 18 year old has done this and over 40 has done that when all it matter for referendum was overall numbers. Now its time to move on and discuss what should be next steps instead of asking for Independence just because you voted for remain side and they did not got the victory in the end . We all knew that any outcome is possible before went for voting and we should have balls to accept the outcome if we actually believe in democracy

[rooibos]

On the subject of democracy, this referendum was not democratic. Foreign citizens from commonwealth countries were able to vote and with all certainty they have voted leave, while EU citizens who have been here for donkeys years were not allowed to vote.

[ILR1980]

On the subject of democracy, this referendum was not democratic. Foreign citizens from commonwealth countries were able to vote and with all certainty they have voted leave, while EU citizens who have been here for donkeys years were not allowed to vote.

London has more foreign nationals and they voted for remain.. It was mostly English white dominated areas in south/east of England who all went for leave..Referendum was for IN/OUT of Europe thatswhy Europeans has no say in it

[ouflak1]

I am just saying that this debate is now useless that x voted for leave y voted for remain and under 18 year old has done this and over 40 has done that when all it matter for referendum was overall numbers. Now its time to move on and discuss what should be next steps instead of asking for Independence just because you voted for remain side and they did not got the victory in the end . We all knew that any outcome is possible before went for voting and we should have balls to accept the outcome if we actually believe in democracy

Scotland recently held a democratic vote that was swayed to remain in the United Kingdom based on the promise that EU membership was a vital reason to do so. That promise has now been thoroughly reneged on. More, they themselves voted by overwhelming majority to remain in the EU all across Scotland. They have every right to respond appropriately.

[Petaltop]

and then the Northern people do this.

It's their country. We are just immigrants who asked to be allowed to stay.

[ILR1980]

and then the Northern people do this.

It's their country. We are just immigrants who asked to be allowed to stay.

do people still call themselves immigrant even after getting British nationality and participating in election?

[Obie]

We are just immigrants who asked to be allowed to stay.

It may help if you speak for yourself alone.

[Petaltop]

Scotland recently held a democratic vote that was swayed to remain in the United Kingdom based on the promise that EU membership was a vital reason to do so. That promise has now been thoroughly reneged on.

Scotland does not get to tell the rest of the UK what they can do. Scotland relys on England to give them money to cover their shortfall.

I assume they will have to try to time it so that when they vote to leave (if they do) and England stops giving them that money, so that it will not be too long before the EU pays for them (if they let them join).

[ouflak1]

and then the Northern people do this.

It's their country. We are just immigrants who asked to be allowed to stay.

Some of immigrants are British Citizens beyond the phase of being 'allowed to stay'. Thus we are also EU citizens who do not wish nor deserve to have our EU citizenship stripped from us.

[Petaltop]

We are just immigrants who asked to be allowed to stay.

It may help if you speak for yourself alone.

You and I are both immigrants to this country. We don't get to stay unless we ask to.

[Petaltop]

and then the Northern people do this.

It's their country. We are just immigrants who asked to be allowed to stay.

Some of immigrants are British Citizens beyond the phase of being 'allowed to stay'. Thus we are also EU citizens who do not wish nor deserve to have our EU citizenship stripped from us.

We asked to be granted British citizenship so that we could stay and they granted it. The UK took a vote and decided to leave. Accept that.

[ouflak1]

Scotland recently held a democratic vote that was swayed to remain in the United Kingdom based on the promise that EU membership was a vital reason to do so. That promise has now been thoroughly reneged on.

Scotland does not get to tell the rest of the UK what they can do. Scotland relys on England to give them money to cover their shortfall.

Absolutely correct. They must ask for permission to have a referendum. But can you imagine a Brexit PM/parliament denying that request? To say that would be in direct contradiction to everything they themselves have just recently fought for would be a hypocritical understatement of a generation!

I assume they will have to try to time it so that when they vote to leave (if they do) and England stops giving them that money, so that it will not be too long before the EU pays for them (if they let them join).

Yep, you've got it.

[Obie]

Scotland recently held a democratic vote that was swayed to remain in the United Kingdom based on the promise that EU membership was a vital reason to do so. That promise has now been thoroughly reneged on.

Scotland does not get to tell the rest of the UK what they can do. Scotland relys on England to give them money to cover their shortfall.

I assume they will have to try to time it so that when they vote to leave (if they do) and England stops giving them that money, so that it will not be too long before the EU pays for them (if they let them join).

Scotland contributes more per head to the UK than any other regions that make the EU.
SCOTLAND is a strategic region for UK, the Trident is stored in Scottish water.

Therefore UK is likely to be badly destroyed by the departure of Scotland, not to mention the North Sea oil.

I think Scotland is likely to do well without what is left of UK on the 24-06.

[ouflak1]

We asked to be granted British citizenship. They took a vote and decided to leave. Accept that.

No thanks. You accept it. I've got other ideas.

[Petaltop]

Absolutely correct. They must ask for permission to have a referendum. But can you imagine a Brexit PM/parliament denying that request?

They won't deny that. The SNP could also ask the rest of the UK to vote on whether they wanted Scoland to go

[rooibos]

On the subject of democracy, this referendum was not democratic. Foreign citizens from commonwealth countries were able to vote and with all certainty they have voted leave, while EU citizens who have been here for donkeys years were not allowed to vote.

London has more foreign nationals and they voted for remain.. It was mostly English white dominated areas in south/east of England who all went for leave..Referendum was for IN/OUT of Europe thatswhy Europeans has no say in it

So, standing by your logic, why did foreign citizens from Commonwealth countries have a say on it?

[ILR1980]

Scotland recently held a democratic vote that was swayed to remain in the United Kingdom based on the promise that EU membership was a vital reason to do so. That promise has now been thoroughly reneged on. More, they themselves voted by overwhelming majority to remain in the EU all across Scotland. They have every right to respond appropriately.

Is not this double standard to tell UK to remain in EU even againt the will of majority but demand freedom for scotland to leave the UK?

[Amber]

I think people need to put their differences to one side. The U.K. has voted, democratically, to leave the UK. Therefore, that's what will happen. Now we need to unite as a Country and move on. Further scaremonger and sore losers will not help anyone, most certainly not the U.K.

Bridges now need to be built!

[Petaltop]

Scotland contributes more per head to the UK than any other regions that make the EU.
SCOTLAND is a strategic region for UK, the Trident is stored in Scottish water.

Therefore UK is likely to be badly destroyed by the departure of Scotland, not to mention the North Sea oil.

I think Scotland is likely to do well without what is left of UK on the 24-06.

Where do you get your ideas from?

After Scotland's vote

NICOLA Sturgeon has admitted the SNP’s oil price predictions for independence were wrong.
She bowed to the facts after figures blew a multi-billion-pound hole in the Nationalists’ case for an independent Scotland’s finances.
http://www.briefreport.co.uk/news/nicol ... 28384.html


NICOLA Sturgeon has admitted the SNP was “wrong” about its claims over Scotland’s future oil wealth during the referendum campaign.

The First Minister came under fire yesterday from political opponents at Holyrood who warned that the Nationalists’ economic plans would leave Scotland facing billions of pounds more in cuts.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/f ... -1-3722758


Nicola Sturgeon has been forced to admit for the first time that the SNP had got its independence predictions for North Sea oil wrong as it emerged the growing shortfall in Scotland’s finances is the equivalent of a 17p hike in income tax.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... wrong.html


2015

FFA, which would see Scotland raise all its own taxes and pay a supplement to the rest of the UK for defence and foreign affairs, would leave a £7.6bn shortfall in the first year and around £40bn in five years, according to the FSA.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/w ... -1-3743226

And in 2016

Scotland last year ran up a £15 billion deficit that was proportionately twice the size of the UK’s, according to “devastating” official figures that prompted a sustained attack on Nicola Sturgeon’s honesty about independence.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... f-UKs.html

[Casa]

I think people need to put their differences to one side. The U.K. has voted, democratically, to leave the UK. Therefore, that's what will happen. Now we need to unite as a Country and move on. Further scaremonger and sore losers will not help anyone, most certainly not the U.K.

Bridges now need to be built!

I couldn't agree more Amber.

[Petaltop]

I think people need to put their differences to one side. The U.K. has voted, democratically, to leave the UK. Therefore, that's what will happen. Now we need to unite as a Country and move on. Further scaremonger and sore losers will not help anyone, most certainly not the U.K.

Bridges now need to be built!

I couldn't agree more Amber.

+1

[ouflak1]

Scotland recently held a democratic vote that was swayed to remain in the United Kingdom based on the promise that EU membership was a vital reason to do so. That promise has now been thoroughly reneged on. More, they themselves voted by overwhelming majority to remain in the EU all across Scotland. They have every right to respond appropriately.

Is not this double standard to tell UK to remain in EU even againt the will of majority but demand freedom for scotland to leave the UK?

I may be misunderstanding your question, so forgive. But Scotland isn't telling the UK to remain in the EU. That matter has been settled. But Scotland just recently scuttled 'freedom' from the United Kingdom in their own independence referendum, largely because they were convinced by the powers-that-be that they would lose the benefits of EU membership if they left the United Kingdom. Now a UK referendum to remain in EU contravenes the premise of that earlier Scottish vote. Hency their call for a new referendum with the new recent reality now set in front of them. Further, they no longer have any reason to trust any promise England makes on behalf of the rest of the UK (assuming there is much left by the time it gets to that point). Any vote Scotland decides to hold now will be with a crystal clear idea of what lies ahead as far as EU membership is concerned.