Permanent Residence Certifcate question

[mart1711]

Dear all,

I moved to the UK in 2007 from Germany and I still hold German Citizenship. I married my wife (a BC) in 2010.

In light of recent developments and uncertainty I am fairly set on applying for British Citizenship sooner than later. I'm still trying to disentangle some bits and am wondering whether anybody could help with the question below.

I take it that to apply for British Citizenship through Naturalisation I'll have to to apply for Permanent Residence first. I am also led to believe from various source that I should be able to start the process of Naturalisation immediately after receiving Permanent Residence and that the 12 month period that one must hold Permanent Residence Status doesn't apply in this case as I've implicitly already got Permanent Residence after 5 qualifying years in the UK.

Either way it does sound that Permanent Residence is step number one so I'm currently leafing through the 85 pages of form EEA(PR).

In section 5.3 I have to provide evidence of all absences from the UK. I am travelling quite frequently for work and while the total duration of all my trips put together is not excessive, the sheer amount of trips taken is. I'm not at all sure at the moment just how I can get all the dates, short of going through 5 years worth of expense claims and booking confirmation for flights, provided my records even go back that far.

Surely I'm not the only one who has struggled with this. Has anybody had any clever ideas on how to compile this list? Does anybody have any experience on whether the odd missed trip will impact a successful application? I'm worried I'll miss the odd trip just through not finding receipts / remembering in the first instance.

Many thanks

Martin

[noajthan]

Dear all,

I moved to the UK in 2007 from Germany and I still hold German Citizenship. I married my wife (a BC) in 2010.
...

I take it that to apply for British Citizenship through Naturalisation I'll have to to apply for Permanent Residence first. I am also led to believe from various source that I should be able to start the process of Naturalisation immediately after receiving Permanent Residence and that the 12 month period that one must hold Permanent Residence Status doesn't apply in this case as I've implicitly already got Permanent Residence after 5 qualifying years in the UK.

Either way it does sound that Permanent Residence is step number one so I'm currently leafing through the 85 pages of form EEA(PR).

...

Martin

Your understanding is almost correct.

Its not about implicit PR.
The one benefit of a BC spouse (in migration terms) is it avoids needing to have been free of immigration time restrictions for a further 12 months before shooting for the privilege of citizenship.

Do what you can with the absences. Month/year if nothing else.

You can also try a SAR from UKVI; worth a punt for £10;
that will show how much big brother was monitoring you over past years as you crossed the border; (yes, even for Union citizens).

Pro tip: the monster form is not a legal requirement. use an earlier (simpler) version if you wish.
(Examples in forum & in Gov UK archives website).

[mart1711]

That is great info, thanks very much. I'll try the SAR route and see where I get to.

There is one more thing that is really unclear to me and that is whether I need a sponsor or not. On reviewing the form I would have thought yes, but there are multiple posts that seem to indicate that a BC cannot be sponsor (my wife is a BC).

Again - I've been in the UK since 2007 and have been employed full time since. I qualify on the 5 yrs required - do I still need a sponsor though?

Many thanks!

Martin

[noajthan]

That is great info, thanks very much. I'll try the SAR route and see where I get to.

There is one more thing that is really unclear to me and that is whether I need a sponsor or not. On reviewing the form I would have thought yes, but there are multiple posts that seem to indicate that a BC cannot be sponsor (my wife is a BC).

Again - I've been in the UK since 2007 and have been employed full time since. I qualify on the 5 yrs required - do I still need a sponsor though?

Many thanks!

Martin

No, your wife is not your sponsor; under UK law (in the context of immigration) she is not even recognised as an EEA national (and that is even before Brexit).

As you are a Union citizen you apply in your own right as the main applicant and you do not have a sponsor.
(Its a poorly-designed and generic form used for many different scenarios).

[mart1711]

And again - many thanks. I could not work that one out.

[noajthan]

And again - many thanks. I could not work that one out.

I would certainly be out of my comfort zone if attempting to complete any sort of form in German.

Practising believing impossible things may help a little too.

"Alice laughed: "There's no use trying," she said; "one can't believe impossible things."
"I daresay you haven't had much practice," said the Queen. "When I was younger, I always did it for half an hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."

Alice in Wonderland

[mart1711]

So I finally managed to get my SAR posted off and have received a prompt reply, which is great.

However it says: "Unfortunately we have been unable to trace any records of the above subject on our systems. The reason may be....[]...or if you are an EU citizen you are not subject to UK Immigration Control.

Shame - I was really hoping this would make it a little easier for myself to trace back my departures / return dates from/into the UK for the last 5 years

I'm surprised there are no records at all, but wasn't too sure what too expect in the first instance. It was worth a go...

[ohara]

So I finally managed to get my SAR posted off and have received a prompt reply, which is great.

However it says: "Unfortunately we have been unable to trace any records of the above subject on our systems. The reason may be....[]...or if you are an EU citizen you are not subject to UK Immigration Control.

Shame - I was really hoping this would make it a little easier for myself to trace back my departures / return dates from/into the UK for the last 5 years

I'm surprised there are no records at all, but wasn't too sure what too expect in the first instance. It was worth a go...

Unsurprising to be honest. One of the core principles of the EU is to not impede free movement of citizens between member states. Immigration control on EU citizens is minimal and entries are not routinely logged (although a few EU states are now doing so, and sharing information between each other for crime prevention purposes).

The UK did not routinely conduct exit checks until recently, and even now it's mainly for the purposes of ensuring third country nationals have not overstayed their visas.

On my application, I just gave approximate dates of my absences. As long as you have not been out of the UK for hundreds of days each year, you will be fine. HO won't even care about a 2 week holiday here or there. They just want to see that you have not broken continuity of residence by leaving for 2 years or more.