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EU national studies abroad and wants to return to the UK

Use this section for any queries concerning the EU Settlement Scheme, for applicants holding pre-settled and settled status.

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noajthan
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Re: EU national studies abroad and wants to return to the UK

Post by noajthan » Thu Jul 28, 2016 9:02 am

Blueinch wrote:
Blueinch wrote: 1) evidence of living in the same household
To show that we were living in the same accommodation, I found two documents: my rent contract for the flat, where we lived (son's name is not mentioned there), and son's Council Tax Exemption Certificate issued by the university stating his "term address". Both of them have the same address.

Dear forum residents, what is your opinion, would these evidence be enough to prove that we lived in the same household?

Cheers :)
Its a start but doesn't seem enough for 2 years.
You need lots of paper, each to corroborate each other.

Eg:
Driver's license, MOT, various types of insurance (including car?), medical records, doctor/dentist/optician/clinic letters/bills, university-related paperwork/letters, voter registration & etc etc.
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

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Re: EU national studies abroad and wants to return to the UK

Post by Blueinch » Thu Jul 28, 2016 10:26 am

noajthan wrote: Eg:
Driver's license, MOT, various types of insurance (including car?), medical records, doctor/dentist/optician/clinic letters/bills, university-related paperwork/letters, voter registration & etc etc.
nojathan, thank you for the reply.

Does it mean that if any of the quoted above documents came to my address, they are counted as "evidence" of my son living in "the same household" with me?

We got most of the above.

Ta

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Re: EU national studies abroad and wants to return to the UK

Post by noajthan » Thu Jul 28, 2016 11:41 am

Blueinch wrote:
noajthan wrote: Eg:
Driver's license, MOT, various types of insurance (including car?), medical records, doctor/dentist/optician/clinic letters/bills, university-related paperwork/letters, voter registration & etc etc.
nojathan, thank you for the reply.

Does it mean that if any of the quoted above documents came to my address, they are counted as "evidence" of my son living in "the same household" with me?

We got most of the above.

Ta
In HO terms they want to see paper - lots of it.
Ofcourse son may not have been there at all - he could have been in a dorm or staying with friends. But HIO believes in documentary evidence.

Something else has struck me.
The living in sponsor's household type of dependency relates particularly to extended family members (EFM) not direct family members (FM).
EFMs require a RC; FMs do not (its optional).

If son is submitting household information (instead of financial information) then HO may be looking for sight of a RC; perhaps not an EFM RC (as would be required for a 'proper' EFM) but possibly a FM RC.

The guidance is not very clear on this vital point but something to be aware of.
See HO guidance on EFMs:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... _clean.pdf
- ref page 19+

And also page 29:
If the applicant has been issued a residence card, registration certificate, or EEA family permit and they are now switching into the extended family member category, you do not have to consider whether it is appropriate to issue in all circumstances unless the EEA national sponsor is exercising free movement rights as a student.
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

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Re: EU national studies abroad and wants to return to the UK

Post by Blueinch » Fri Jul 29, 2016 5:15 pm

I went through the DCPR application form, and got few questions:

1. I got my son's National Identity Card and all his evidence documents. Would it be fine, if apply for him (us being family members) as a part of my own DCPR application?
1.1. Does he need to be present in the UK, if I want to send DCPR application for both of us?

2. In Section 13 (question 13.5, page 65), they are asking "Are you currently working in the UK?". Considering the section is about the dependent family member (my son), are they asking whether he was working during the dependent period (5 years ago) or right now?

3. Does anybody know examples and ideas of evidence for dependence based on emotional and physical support (question 13.10)?

4. Can anybody advice what is good to write (or avoid writing) in question 17.9 - What ties you have with the country you were born?

Thanks to everyone, who is able to contribute to the answers of the above questions.

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Re: EU national studies abroad and wants to return to the UK

Post by noajthan » Fri Jul 29, 2016 6:55 pm

Blueinch wrote:I went through the DCPR application form, and got few questions:

1. I got my son's National Identity Card and all his evidence documents. Would it be fine, if apply for him (us being family members) as a part of my own DCPR application?
1.1. Does he need to be present in the UK, if I want to send DCPR application for both of us?

2. In Section 13 (question 13.5, page 65), they are asking "Are you currently working in the UK?". Considering the section is about the dependent family member (my son), are they asking whether he was working during the dependent period (5 years ago) or right now?

3. Does anybody know examples and ideas of evidence for dependence based on emotional and physical support (question 13.10)?

4. Can anybody advice what is good to write (or avoid writing) in question 17.9 - What ties you have with the country you were born?

Thanks to everyone, who is able to contribute to the answers of the above questions.
1) Yes.
May be tricky if time periods do not overlap. (You may have acquired PR in a different timeslot).

1.1) No.
But how will son submit evidence to prove his identity? If he uses passport, how will he travel (as and when required) without it?

But as cautioned don't let son stay out of UK over 6 months in any 12 month period without a one-off exceptional reason (with evidence).

2) Its a poorly designed and illogical form; it is also used in all sorts of circumstances.
The question does say "currently".

4) Be honest.
Such questions/answers are not required under EU law in any case. That's a UK-sponsored fishing expedition.

Worth noting its not a mandatory, legal requirement to use the current 'monster' PR form.
Earlier (simpler) versions are available.
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

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Re: EU national studies abroad and wants to return to the UK

Post by Blueinch » Sat Jul 30, 2016 6:25 pm

Thank you, noajthan,
noajthan wrote:But how will son submit evidence to prove his identity? If he uses passport, how will he travel (as and when required) without it?
As I see in the form, his National Identity Card (ID card) can be ok to be used for the application. Section 18 (p.79) states:
Proof of identity and nationality (sections 1-2) – e.g. valid passport, travel document or national identity card for you, any family members applying with you, and your sponsor (if applicable).
Therefore, for application he can use his ID, and keep his passport for traveling, right?
noajthan wrote:But as cautioned don't let son stay out of UK over 6 months in any 12 month period without a one-off exceptional reason (with evidence).
He has already spent nearly 6 months in China studying Chinese language. As I see in the form (p.29), important reasons to go over 6 months include "study". So is it right that if he goes over 6 months and provides a confirmation letter from the school and semester completion certificate, it will put him on safe side?

Would you suggest to use this "simpler" form - https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/128 ... ple_v2.pdf ?

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Re: EU national studies abroad and wants to return to the UK

Post by noajthan » Sat Jul 30, 2016 6:53 pm

Blueinch wrote:Thank you, noajthan,
noajthan wrote:But how will son submit evidence to prove his identity? If he uses passport, how will he travel (as and when required) without it?
As I see in the form, his National Identity Card (ID card) can be ok to be used for the application. Section 18 (p.79) states:
Proof of identity and nationality (sections 1-2) – e.g. valid passport, travel document or national identity card for you, any family members applying with you, and your sponsor (if applicable).
Therefore, for application he can use his ID, and keep his passport for traveling, right?
noajthan wrote:But as cautioned don't let son stay out of UK over 6 months in any 12 month period without a one-off exceptional reason (with evidence).
He has already spent nearly 6 months in China studying Chinese language. As I see in the form (p.29), important reasons to go over 6 months include "study". So is it right that if he goes over 6 months and provides a confirmation letter from the school and semester completion certificate, it will put him on safe side?

Would you suggest to use this "simpler" form - https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/128 ... ple_v2.pdf ?
Yes, id card or passport.

Son needs to justify a one-off exceptional absence with appropriate and good supporting evidence.
I can't comment on whether son's rationale for being abroad will be accepted by a caseworker as falling into a category such as 'work placement' or 'study leave'. If its seen simply as gap year-type activity it may not be accepted.
With all the uncertainty around Brexit I've already suggested son comes back (within a 6 months out of 12 timeslot) to try to secure his position here.

The simpler form is acceptable to HO.
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

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Re: EU national studies abroad and wants to return to the UK

Post by Blueinch » Sun Jul 31, 2016 3:55 pm

Summing up again:

My son can't use me as a sponsor before May 2011, because I didn't have WRS form back then. Thus his new time period, when he (hopefully) exercised his rights looks like that:

1. May 2010 - Oct 2011: full-time job based in the UK during the gap year. He got WRS, thus this period can be counted towards qualifying period.

Actually, he started to work in the company in the end of 2008 as a part-time staff during his A-levels, thus his WRS was issued in Feb 2009. Question:
1.1. Can we argue that he was exercising his treaty of rights from Feb 2009, considering he was working only as a part-time worker (2-3 days per week) until May 2010?

2. Oct 2011 - May 2014: full-time studies in the university (BA degree). He was dependent on me and sponsored by me. We lived in the same households, which were paid by me. The first household was registered on my name (son was not mentioned in the contract), and the second one was registered on his name (I was a guarantor). Both were paid from my bank account. Questions:
2.1. Does it really matter which name was stated in the contract agreement, as long as we can provide a lot of letters (evidence) received at those two addresses showing that we lived in the same household?
2.2. Would the fact that son lived in the same household be enough to prove that he was financially dependent on me during his university years?

3. May 2014 - Mar 2016: two full time jobs. All p45/p60 and payslips are there, so this period should be counted no problem.

Considering everything written above, does DCPR look doable with the new time period? Did I miss anything? Do I need to add anything else?

Thank you.

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Re: EU national studies abroad and wants to return to the UK

Post by noajthan » Sun Jul 31, 2016 6:57 pm

Blueinch wrote:Summing up again:

My son can't use me as a sponsor before May 2011, because I didn't have WRS form back then. Thus his new time period, when he (hopefully) exercised his rights looks like that:

1. May 2010 - Oct 2011: full-time job based in the UK during the gap year. He got WRS, thus this period can be counted towards qualifying period.

Actually, he started to work in the company in the end of 2008 as a part-time staff during his A-levels, thus his WRS was issued in Feb 2009. Question:
1.1. Can we argue that he was exercising his treaty of rights from Feb 2009, considering he was working only as a part-time worker (2-3 days per week) until May 2010?

2. Oct 2011 - May 2014: full-time studies in the university (BA degree). He was dependent on me and sponsored by me. We lived in the same households, which were paid by me. The first household was registered on my name (son was not mentioned in the contract), and the second one was registered on his name (I was a guarantor). Both were paid from my bank account. Questions:
2.1. Does it really matter which name was stated in the contract agreement, as long as we can provide a lot of letters (evidence) received at those two addresses showing that we lived in the same household?
2.2. Would the fact that son lived in the same household be enough to prove that he was financially dependent on me during his university years?

3. May 2014 - Mar 2016: two full time jobs. All p45/p60 and payslips are there, so this period should be counted no problem.

Considering everything written above, does DCPR look doable with the new time period? Did I miss anything? Do I need to add anything else?

Thank you.
1.1) Maybe.
Its all about satisfying the genuine/effective test and showing any such work was not marginal and supplementary to any other activity (eg 6th form studies).

The HO may apply its PET/MET test too, to see if they agree son was a worker at this time; (its unclear how far back they apply it).

2.1) No.
Yes, other supporting evidence (as quoted) should help make the case.

2.2) No, cohabitation does not prove financial dependency.
Son could have been working as a live-at-home investment banker or premier league footballer or in a boyband.

However it shows membership of household which is a category applicable to extended family members.
Can you show you are head of household :?:

3) Yes, but what about absence/s from UK :?:
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

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Re: EU national studies abroad and wants to return to the UK

Post by Blueinch » Sun Jul 31, 2016 7:25 pm

noajthan wrote: Can you show you are head of household :?:
How can we prove it? There were only two of us living at those two rented flats. I was paying all the rent and bills - banks statements will show it. Would it be enough?
noajthan wrote: Yes, but what about absence/s from UK :?:
Between 2009 - 2015 son was traveling very occasionally. Only to see the family and or friends for about 2 weeks/year.

In 2015 he was working as an event manager and had many flights. About 1 week away per month.

This year he only traveled away for studies, March - now.

Do we need to find all the flights details and calculate son's time away? Do you feel like there might be a problem? Any suggestion is very appreciated.

Thank you.

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Re: EU national studies abroad and wants to return to the UK

Post by noajthan » Sun Jul 31, 2016 11:03 pm

Blueinch wrote:Between 2009 - 2015 son was traveling very occasionally. Only to see the family and or friends for about 2 weeks/year.

In 2015 he was working as an event manager and had many flights. About 1 week away per month.

This year he only traveled away for studies, March - now.

Do we need to find all the flights details and calculate son's time away? Do you feel like there might be a problem? Any suggestion is very appreciated.

Thank you.
Yes you do!
Count up all the absences, itemise them.

See if son complies with EEA Regulation 3.
http://www.eearegulations.co.uk/Latest/ByPage/part1_3

If an absence is not demonstrably exceptional then return within 6 months as cautioned before.
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

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Re: EU national studies abroad and wants to return to the UK

Post by Blueinch » Mon Aug 01, 2016 9:55 pm

noajthan wrote: Yes you do!
Count up all the absences, itemise them.

See if son complies with EEA Regulation 3.
http://www.eearegulations.co.uk/Latest/ByPage/part1_3

If an absence is not demonstrably exceptional then return within 6 months as cautioned before.
My son calculated his days away, and it seems that since the beginning of 2009 he was out from the UK for 330 days. It was a mix of family visits back in his home country, holidays and business trips for his previous employer. He has been away for studies for 143 days (4 months, 21 days) since March 2016 - this is the longest stay away in the last 7 years.

Does it sound good? Do I need to present more detailed information?

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Re: EU national studies abroad and wants to return to the UK

Post by noajthan » Mon Aug 01, 2016 11:10 pm

Blueinch wrote:My son calculated his days away, and it seems that since the beginning of 2009 he was out from the UK for 330 days. It was a mix of family visits back in his home country, holidays and business trips for his previous employer. He has been away for studies for 143 days (4 months, 21 days) since March 2016 - this is the longest stay away in the last 7 years.

Does it sound good? Do I need to present more detailed information?
To check compliance with EEA Regulations, it needs to be itemised and analysed based on 12 month periods;
(based on anniversary of entry into UK).

The rules are different for naturalisation. Worry about them later.
But probably worth your while reading up on them in the guidance.
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

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Re: EU national studies abroad and wants to return to the UK

Post by Blueinch » Wed Aug 03, 2016 5:11 am

noajthan wrote: To check compliance with EEA Regulations, it needs to be itemised and analysed based on 12 month periods;
(based on anniversary of entry into UK).

The rules are different for naturalisation. Worry about them later.
But probably worth your while reading up on them in the guidance.
Glad to see the forum back online.

My son arrived to the UK in June 2008.

Amount of days he was out:
2008/9 - 4 days (visit of father in the home country)
2009/10 - 65 days (visit of relatives in the country of birth)
2010/11 - 34 days (visit of father and dealing with inheritable property)
2011/12 - 11 days (visit of father and travels for tourism)
2012/13 - 16 days (visit of father and travels for tourism)
2013/14 - 14 days (university summer camp)
2014/15 - 27 days (business trips for the job)
2015/16 - 146 days (business trips for the job, travel for sightseeing, travel to study abroad)
2016/17 - 41 day (studies abroad)

Hopefully, we found all the trips. Unfortunately, nobody thought of keeping a track of all the trips since we moved to the UK. What if couple of trips were unintentionally missed?
noajthan wrote: Can you show you are head of household :?:
According to my research, head of household is the person who "paid more than half the cost of keeping up your home". Is it the right definition? I have fully paid for the rent, thus am I considered as the head of household?

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Re: EU national studies abroad and wants to return to the UK

Post by noajthan » Wed Aug 03, 2016 9:04 am

Blueinch wrote:Glad to see the forum back online.

My son arrived to the UK in June 2008.

Amount of days he was out:
...

Hopefully, we found all the trips. Unfortunately, nobody thought of keeping a track of all the trips since we moved to the UK. What if couple of trips were unintentionally missed?
noajthan wrote: Can you show you are head of household :?:
According to my research, head of household is the person who "paid more than half the cost of keeping up your home". Is it the right definition? I have fully paid for the rent, thus am I considered as the head of household?
If those are absences based on a year June-June then all look with prescribed limits.

Where did you find that definition of head of household?

Guesstimate (month/year) if you don't have specific dates.
Honest mistakes should be accepted. Add a cover note to explain if you wish.

Pro tip: always look ahead to the next immigration-related application (and the one after that);
check requirements upfront;
manage life in order to generate necessary papertrail to meet requirements;
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

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Re: EU national studies abroad and wants to return to the UK

Post by Blueinch » Wed Aug 03, 2016 7:16 pm

noajthan wrote:
Blueinch wrote:
noajthan wrote: Can you show you are head of household :?:
According to my research, head of household is the person who "paid more than half the cost of keeping up your home". Is it the right definition? I have fully paid for the rent, thus am I considered as the head of household?
Where did you find that definition of head of household?
The source I used is not the most reputable, but it was the first sensible I came across - http://blog.taxaudit.com/what-do-you-me ... the-bacon/

Since, you asked about the definition, I did more research on gov.uk website:

Household – The definition of a house hold in the 2011 Census was: ‘one person living alone; or a group of people (not necessarily related) living at the same address who share cooking facilities and share a living room or sitting room or dining area’

The definition of ‘head of household’ (HOH) which has been used by the Social Survey Division (SSD) of OPCS for many years, and by other organisations carrying out government household surveys, is as follows1.
The member of the household in whose name the accommodation is owned or rented except in the case of a married or cohabiting couple where the male partner takes precedence over the female.
If two people who are not a couple are jointly responsible for the accommodation, the oldest is taken if they are of the same sex, but the male is taken if they are of different sex.

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Re: EU national studies abroad and wants to return to the UK

Post by noajthan » Wed Aug 03, 2016 7:25 pm

Blueinch wrote:The source I used is not the most reputable, but it was the first sensible I came across - http://blog.taxaudit.com/what-do-you-me ... the-bacon/

Since, you asked about the definition, I did more research on gov.uk website:

Household – The definition of a house hold in the 2011 Census was: ‘one person living alone; or a group of people (not necessarily related) living at the same address who share cooking facilities and share a living room or sitting room or dining area’

The definition of ‘head of household’ (HOH) which has been used by the Social Survey Division (SSD) of OPCS for many years, and by other organisations carrying out government household surveys, is as follows1.
The member of the household in whose name the accommodation is owned or rented except in the case of a married or cohabiting couple where the male partner takes precedence over the female.
If two people who are not a couple are jointly responsible for the accommodation, the oldest is taken if they are of the same sex, but the male is taken if they are of different sex.
In this context it is EU law and the Directive that introduces the concept of head of household but (in a quick google) I haven't found a definition.
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

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Re: EU national studies abroad and wants to return to the UK

Post by Blueinch » Wed Aug 03, 2016 8:03 pm

Son started to fill in the simpler version of the application (EEA3):

In 1.10, they are asking for the "Date you last entered the UK". Does it literally mean, when was the last time son arrived to the UK? If yes, then it seems that first he has to return back to London, and then start to apply for the DCPR, right? Actually, in the Guidance Notes, in the first point it is mentioned that "You and any family members included in the application must be in the UK to apply", so looks like there is no way for me to apply instead of him, while he is in China.

In 3.2, he has to give details on the "support by funds of a family member". We have the following draft message, as an explanation: "Throughout my studies in the university (2011-2014), I was living with my mother, who was the head of household. I had no job, therefore my mom was supporting me by paying the rent, utilities bills and buying food. Agency contracts, letters from utility providers and and bank statements are available in the evidence section". Does it sound ok? Do we need to add anything else?

In 4.1, they are asking for criminal convictions, including "traffic offences". Once, my son broke the speed limit (by 7mph :roll: ) - he has to tick "Yes" in that question, right? Not sure, what is meant by traffic offences...

Other than that applications is pretty clear. As requested, son will support the application with the following evidence: p45, p60, wage slips, work contracts, university and college letters, rent agreements, letters by the utility companies (paid by me), his and my bank statements, speed awareness course completion certificate.

Do I need to provide my ID and his birth certificate to prove our relationship? If yes, can you please share, which place can officially translate his birth certificate?

Did I miss any of the evidence documents?

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Re: EU national studies abroad and wants to return to the UK

Post by noajthan » Wed Aug 03, 2016 10:57 pm

Blueinch wrote:Son started to fill in the simpler version of the application (EEA3):

In 1.10, they are asking for the "Date you last entered the UK". Does it literally mean, when was the last time son arrived to the UK? If yes, then it seems that first he has to return back to London, and then start to apply for the DCPR, right? Actually, in the Guidance Notes, in the first point it is mentioned that "You and any family members included in the application must be in the UK to apply", so looks like there is no way for me to apply instead of him, while he is in China.

In 3.2, he has to give details on the "support by funds of a family member". We have the following draft message, as an explanation: "Throughout my studies in the university (2011-2014), I was living with my mother, who was the head of household. I had no job, therefore my mom was supporting me by paying the rent, utilities bills and buying food. Agency contracts, letters from utility providers and and bank statements are available in the evidence section". Does it sound ok? Do we need to add anything else?

In 4.1, they are asking for criminal convictions, including "traffic offences". Once, my son broke the speed limit (by 7mph :roll: ) - he has to tick "Yes" in that question, right? Not sure, what is meant by traffic offences...

Other than that applications is pretty clear. As requested, son will support the application with the following evidence: p45, p60, wage slips, work contracts, university and college letters, rent agreements, letters by the utility companies (paid by me), his and my bank statements, speed awareness course completion certificate.

Do I need to provide my ID and his birth certificate to prove our relationship? If yes, can you please share, which place can officially translate his birth certificate?

Did I miss any of the evidence documents?
As already intimated, in these troublesome times it would be prudent for son to come home and sort this all out, (unless he perhaps has some surprise plan to stay out in China).

Son needs to prove identity, residence, absences, treaty rights. (Relationship if you are sponsor).
if you are a sponsor you need to prove, id, relationship, residence, absences, treaty rights.

3.2 sounds a bit woolly. I doubt assertions will cut it without hard evidence.
But you can only work with what you've got.

The fact son had a job/funds prior to your support at uni tends to undermine the case being made for your support.
It may rest on son being treated as a mere EFM who is member of household rather than the stronger connection of FM.
The question of a 'proxy EFM' needing a FM RC in lieu of the usual EFM RC is unclear.

Conviction questions is an example of where these forms go above and beyond what is required under EU law.
Answer as best you can.
No doubt any responses there will be held on file and crosschecked in any future naturalisation application if son has ambitions of citizenship;
(answers short of terrorism or similar should have no bearing on DCPR)..

Yes, documents needs translating if not in English (or Welsh). Follow the advisory in PR guidance on translators and translations.
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

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Re: EU national studies abroad and wants to return to the UK

Post by Blueinch » Thu Aug 04, 2016 9:50 am

noajthan wrote: 3.2 sounds a bit woolly. I doubt assertions will cut it without hard evidence.
But you can only work with what you've got.

The fact son had a job/funds prior to your support at uni tends to undermine the case being made for your support.
It may rest on son being treated as a mere EFM who is member of household rather than the stronger connection of FM.
The question of a 'proxy EFM' needing a FM RC in lieu of the usual EFM RC is unclear.
Any suggestions how to phrase it less "woolly" please?

Honestly speaking, the whole situation with EFM and FM is the the last part of the whole procedure, which I find fuzzy. If you can advice, which procedures shall I follow to make it in my son's favor, I will be very thankful.

So far it seems that my son will have to return to the UK as soon as possible, and start the whole DCPR application process, providing all possible evidence and try to convince officers that he was financially dependent on me (aka head of household). The rest lies on immigration staff that will review his application, right?

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Re: EU national studies abroad and wants to return to the UK

Post by noajthan » Thu Aug 04, 2016 7:03 pm

Blueinch wrote:Any suggestions how to phrase it less "woolly" please?

Honestly speaking, the whole situation with EFM and FM is the the last part of the whole procedure, which I find fuzzy. If you can advice, which procedures shall I follow to make it in my son's favor, I will be very thankful.

So far it seems that my son will have to return to the UK as soon as possible, and start the whole DCPR application process, providing all possible evidence and try to convince officers that he was financially dependent on me (aka head of household). The rest lies on immigration staff that will review his application, right?
Not really, no good ideas on how to firm this up;
ideally, the application is evidence-driven and you don't seem to have concrete evidence of son's financial dependency.

What I mean is financial dependency is what is looked for for direct family members.
If someone doesn't qualify as a direct family member then HO guidance instructs the caseworker to see if applicant qualifies as an extended family member.

An extended family member can be someone who is a member of the sponsor (head of household's) household.
However an EFM must hold an EFM RC in order to be able to apply for DCPR.

What I'm not clear about is whether any RC that son has (likely to be a FM RC, if any) will suffice in lieu of an EFM RC.
(He obviously won't have an EFM RC as he is not normally considered an EFM).

And yes, once you submit the bundle you are in the hands of the caseworkers.
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

Blueinch
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Re: EU national studies abroad and wants to return to the UK

Post by Blueinch » Wed Aug 10, 2016 9:36 am

noajthan wrote: What I mean is financial dependency is what is looked for for direct family members.
If someone doesn't qualify as a direct family member then HO guidance instructs the caseworker to see if applicant qualifies as an extended family member.

An extended family member can be someone who is a member of the sponsor (head of household's) household.
However an EFM must hold an EFM RC in order to be able to apply for DCPR.

What I'm not clear about is whether any RC that son has (likely to be a FM RC, if any) will suffice in lieu of an EFM RC.
(He obviously won't have an EFM RC as he is not normally considered an EFM).

And yes, once you submit the bundle you are in the hands of the caseworkers.
Well, right, those DirectFM and ExtrendedFM definitions and specifications look unclear indeed.

My son is returning next week, ane he will send the DCPR application asap.

What can you auggest as a plan B please, incase DCPR is unsuccessfull? Shall we apply for RC simultaneously with DCPR, or wait for HO feedback first? Any other suggestions to save his chances for the future citizenship? Thank you.

noajthan
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Re: EU national studies abroad and wants to return to the UK

Post by noajthan » Wed Aug 10, 2016 9:44 am

Blueinch wrote:Well, right, those DirectFM and ExtrendedFM definitions and specifications look unclear indeed.

My son is returning next week, ane he will send the DCPR application asap.

What can you auggest as a plan B please, incase DCPR is unsuccessfull? Shall we apply for RC simultaneously with DCPR, or wait for HO feedback first? Any other suggestions to save his chances for the future citizenship? Thank you.
Already suggested:
  • Try for DCPR first.
    If refused apply for RC, EEA (QP).
Wait and see what transitional arrangements may be put in place.
Hope son had appropriate documentation (at least RC if not DCPR) by whatever key date to be included.

Hope government will set up some sort of path to permanent settlement (that can still lead to citizenship) even if normal timelines are now impossible.
That's probably as good as it gets.
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

Blueinch
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Re: EU national studies abroad and wants to return to the UK

Post by Blueinch » Sat Aug 27, 2016 10:20 pm

Son arrived back to the UK, and we went to Guildhall to get some final assistance with application. There is a law community service with immigration section, where we talked to a pretty helpful lady. Few points learned out of the conversation:

1) It's safer to use the newer ("monster") application. According to the advisor HO can refuse the old form of application, if anything is missing (e.g. some kind of evidence that they require in the latest version of DCRP application);
2) It's better to send a joint application, rather than separate ones. It makes sense, as both me and my son need DCPR;
3) It's better to send application, when my son finds a job. Seems obvious, but we are rushing to send it before UK and EU leaders implement any changes;
4) It's suggested to write a letter that my son was financially dependent on me. Basically, lady suggested to explain everything in writing from both sides (son and me) and use it as an additional evidence supporting his financial dependence.
5) It's better to avoid saying that son was studying in the university for three years, as they will go the CSI route and won't look into his financial dependence on me.

What is your opinion on her advises?

Thank you in advance.

noajthan
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Location: UK

Re: EU national studies abroad and wants to return to the UK

Post by noajthan » Sat Aug 27, 2016 11:00 pm

Blueinch wrote:Son arrived back to the UK, and we went to Guildhall to get some final assistance with application. There is a law community service with immigration section, where we talked to a pretty helpful lady. Few points learned out of the conversation:

1) It's safer to use the newer ("monster") application. According to the advisor HO can refuse the old form of application, if anything is missing (e.g. some kind of evidence that they require in the latest version of DCRP application);
2) It's better to send a joint application, rather than separate ones. It makes sense, as both me and my son need DCPR;
3) It's better to send application, when my son finds a job. Seems obvious, but we are rushing to send it before UK and EU leaders implement any changes;
4) It's suggested to write a letter that my son was financially dependent on me. Basically, lady suggested to explain everything in writing from both sides (son and me) and use it as an additional evidence supporting his financial dependence.
5) It's better to avoid saying that son was studying in the university for three years, as they will go the CSI route and won't look into his financial dependence on me.

What is your opinion on her advises?

Thank you in advance.
1) Members are using other forms or even applying by letter.
Yes, applications without adequate evidence are refused; that is the case whichever form is used.

2) Makes sense if son is being sponsored over same period of time.

3) Misleading.
You are applying for confirmation of PR acquired in the past.
Once someone has PR no need to exercise treaty rights.
And if sponsored the dependent's activity is immaterial; that's the point if a sponsor.

4) Not sure it carries much weight.

5) Inadvisable to suppress material facts to make a good story.
Read the Declaration on form.

Caseworker is capable of sifting relevant qualifying timeline from mass of evidence; that's why they ask for detail of all activity since entry to UK.

And any absence over 6 months can probably only be justified in connection with studies. So don't hide them.
If not relevant they will be ignored if another category of qp or another period supersedes it.
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

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