Applying for EEA PR outside the UK on WHV in Canada?

[cascade23]

Hi everyone, this is my first post and it is about my situation and it is not a simple one, but I will try to keep it to the point.

Basically, I am a dual EU/Australian citizen and I live in the UK obviously on the EU passport and have been here 9 years.
Now, due to my age I need to take the working holiday visa to Canada and this is my last chance to do it.
The timing is bad since I had not applied for my EEA PR card yet, and now with Brexit a reality, I have a 2 year work permit to Canada starting in November this year.
I intend to return to the UK after as my life is here now.

Problems are that I do have 2 passports (1 from each country) so I will use the Aussie one in Canada as the visa was approved to this, but I am not sure if I should file for the EEA PR now as they want to keep my EU passport while this happens.
I asked and they said I can request documents back, but I phoned the Home Office 5 times and got a different answer almost each time in regard to how early I can request my documents back (I am also not sure if I should trust this since I am pretty sure I need the EU passport to leave the UK for the flight to Canada).

Basically I was thinking, since I want to travel before I go to Canada (which I need the EU passport for since the Aussie one has no entry stamp) and also the risk of the airline wondering why there is no UK entry stamp in my Aussie passport when I depart for Canada and the chance they could stop me from departing for Canada which would make me miss my visa entry deadline to enter the Canadian border, which I can't risk (as the EU passport will be at the Home Office), then can I just fly to Canada and mail my EU passport back to my sister in the UK and have her send the documents and forms I have signed and all and put her address as my address in the UK for them to post the card back to and then when she gets this to have her post it to me in Canada?

I will be in Canada for 2 years so this is plenty of time for them to process this and then send it to my sister in the UK.

The period of time for the 5 years I am using will be 2007-2012 so my logic tells me that if I do depart the UK before I file for PR, it should not matter since the application is to simply certify permanent residence and not to grant it to me yes?

Also if I simply put an international redirect on my mail to my address in Canada (I would have to do this once I arrived in Canada and got a stable address as I am staying with a friend first), but would that work?
Could I apply at the UK High Commission actually or would they look at me funny for trying to apply for UK PR when I am in Canada? haha

The fact is that I can be out of the country up to 2 years as a permanent resident, and the visa is for 2 years to Canada and there is no chance to extend this type of visa in my situation with my age and circumstances etc.
So I do not see why the Home Office should have an issue with it...

What is everyones take on the situation?
Any comments are welcome, thanks for your time reading

[Casa]

PR is lost after 2 years of absence outside of the UK.

[cascade23]

PR is lost after 2 years of absence outside of the UK.

Hi Casa, yes I know the 2 year rule, but I would obviously return to the UK about 1 week short of being 2 years outside the UK, so I would not lose it.

[noajthan]

This is most ill-advised and appears to be based on some complete misunderstanding of the situation in UK;
even if you have acquired PR (which is not yet confirmed) your PR status will be lost by 2 years absence from UK.

What you are doing makes no sense whatsoever unless you have given up on UK and plan to stay in Canada.
Based on what Government ministers are now starting to say, you can probably forget about any viable return to UK and any hopes of the privilege of citizenship in the forseeable future.

You are not safely out of the woods until you are British.
PR status is not cast in stone and nor (in current climate) is it guaranteed to last for ever.
Your best bet would be to apply for the privilege of citizenship asap after obtaining a DCPR. However, two years (or even 1 year 51 weeks) out of the country will blow that out of the water due to the absence rules for naturalisation.
You could also fall foul of the 'future intentions based on past behaviour'-type analysis that will be done on your application.

You need to be sure you want to do this.

[ohara]

This reminds me of the member who wrote he intended to live in Australia on his AN form.

Also I do not believe the UK conducts the sort of exit checks you are worried about.

[CR001]

This reminds me of the member who wrote he intended to live in Australia on his AN form.

Yes, I remember that user/post and his was surprised he got a refusal

[cascade23]

You are not safely out of the woods until you are British.
PR status is not cast in stone and nor (in current climate) is it guaranteed to last for ever.
Your best bet would be to apply for the privilege of citizenship asap after obtaining a DCPR. However, two years (or even 1 year 51 weeks) out of the country will blow that out of the water due to the absence rules for naturalisation.
You could also fall foul of the 'future intentions based on past behaviour'-type analysis that will be done on your application.

You need to be sure you want to do this.

Well, I understand that there is a risk with getting EEA PR and not going through with getting the British citizenship.
However, due to the fact that I have always wanted to go on a working holiday to Canada since I was young, this is something that is non-negotiable for me as I would regret not going to Canada on the Working Holiday Visa that I have already been granted, and for which if I do not make it this year, I can never get it again due to my age being now over the age limit for this visa.

The Working Holiday Visa is (as you can tell from it's name) not a path to permanent residence in Canada, it is for experience and such, that's all, cultural exchange etc.

I do not feel it is a fair choice for me to make to throw away this opportunity of what I have always wanted to do, but have not been able to do due to personal circumstances that made me unable to go in the years running up to this year.
I see myself as British resident.
If the UK chooses to not allow me back in, then my view is that I would not want to be in such a regressive and backwards society that Britain would be in such a situation anyway.
However I doubt they will take this approach, since if I am a permanent resident, then they should respect that I have lived in the UK for nearly a decade and paid my taxes.

What you hear on TV is all about the UK government now wanting to say that EU migrants can stay simply (and rightfully so) as they want to hear from the other EU countries that British citizens living in other EU member states are protected also (it should be reciprocal as most international policies are between nations etc).

I was simply asking if there is anything stopping me applying for the confirmation of Permanent Residency when outside the UK?
This was all.

I do not have the time to apply for Citizenship now anyway, and I do not intend to apply for citizenship, regardless of what anyone says. If it is a risk, then so be it. I will take that chance since I believe that Permanent residents will not be kicked out that are already here for many years since this would cause retaliatory action for British citizens in a similar situation in other EU states and the British government will not want this to deal with.

Under EU law I am already classified as a permanent resident, the EEA PR form as far as I can understand from reading all about it, is simply a form to get the Home Office to verify that I am indeed a permanent resident (I will be using period 2007-2012 as I can chose the 5 year period I wish to, which is something most people do not know as most people think it has to be the most recent 5 years, which is not true when applying for PR, but it is true when applying for Citizenship however).

I respect that people wish to apply for British citizenship, and you have a cast iron guarantee then in regard to being able to stay in the UK.
However for me, given the time I need to depart for Canada, I will not be getting citizenship as I would indeed have too many days outside the UK when I came back that it would take several more years before I would be eligible again for citizenship.

At the end of the day, I am not willing to give up the working holiday visa I wanted to do for over a decade and have been looking for ward to doing, even if it means risking my ability to live in the UK long term.
If the UK don't want me because of this, then in my view I am not missing anything, as if this happens, then it would show the UK is backwards and regressive in every regard, and I would not wish to be part of a society as discriminatory as that.

[Wanderer]

Have you been to Canada? It's pretty boring.

[noajthan]

Fairness does not apply in terms of immigration matters, its all about the regulations.
So what you may be referring to is opportunity cost.

Ten years worth of taxes buys you no Brownie points; I've been rendering tax to 'Caesar' for 40+ years and still find myself wondering what have the 'Romans' ever done for us.

You have certainly bought no rights with your tax £££.
Permanent residence is hardly permanent and is simply on a par with ILR which is definitely just as indefinite.

The country can hardly be deemed regressive for revoking your PR if you overstay your welcome in Canada as you know in full well and in advance what the regulations are.
And they are EEA regulations based on and transposed from EU law and the Directive - UK is not responsible for them (and won't be at all, period, very soon).

Almost everyone on this forum knows (or should know) PR is not all about the "last 5 years" and that DCPR is merely an optional confirmatory document - certainly no misunderstandings when on my watch;
last 5 years indeed - what a quaint idea.

You don't 'choose' PR either; it is acquired automatically whether you like it or not (or know it or not) after 5 years continuous ...yadda yadda.

As you seem so disengaged and non-committal about UK then by all means give it a whirl; easy come easy go.

[cascade23]

The country can hardly be deemed regressive for revoking your PR if you overstay your welcome in Canada as you know in full well and in advance what the regulations are.
And they are EEA regulations based on and transposed from EU law and the Directive - UK is not responsible for them (and won't be at all, period, very soon).

Your entire post was informative, but with regard to what i've quoted, well as far as I see it, I would accept them revoking my Permanent Residence if I was 2 years or over outside the UK, since this is the regulation and actually there is no option for me to extend the Canadian visa at all so it wouldn't happen anyway.
I also understand if they revoked it if I was on a path to Permanent Residence in Canada since clearly being a Permanent resident of 2 countries at the same time is not really something that they would see as me being committed to the UK.

I like this country, and I have many friends here and have networked here well for business etc, but I have passports and am a citizen of both Malta (EU) and Australia, and I would not dream of giving either of those up as I am a proud citizen of both of those countries.
If I was able to get British Citizenship without it preventing me going to Canada on the WHV then I would, but you are right that I have to make a choice and I can't have everything here (due to circumstance and timing of the Brexit vote).
I've already paid my health insurance for Canada and have the flight etc a fair while ago, so there is no going back anyway as those were pricey and non-refundable.

I like how you say it is "opportunity cost", this is quite accurate.
All I can say is that I love the UK, but as long as I do not stay outside the UK for 2 consecutive years or more, then I would find it really difficult to believe that I would not be allowed back in as I would not be breaching the terms and rules of my continuous right of residence.
I think I read something about the Vienna convention on this.

In any case, if I can't come back in I am sure I will be of use to Australia, Malta or (if the EU is still going) another EU nation, and I will pay my taxes and contribute my mind and labour to that countries economy instead of the UK if I have no option to come back to the UK, such is life.

[cascade23]

Have you been to Canada? It's pretty boring.

I have been to the USA, but not Canada, but I have many Canadian friends there who i've met on my travels and backpacking etc and also in London when they were living here. Also, given I have always wanted to go there to live for a while it's an easy choice. Considering living 1 year in Toronto and 1 year in Vancouver to get the experience of both. Most of my friends are in Toronto though, so I am going there first.

What parts of Canada have you seen or lived in?