travelling to Dublin

[jorge]

Hi all,
My friend come visit me. he lives in spain.
He got eu family member permanent residence
in spain ( no eu ).
can he travel to Dublin without visa?

Thanks

[payet88]

how did he get to UK?

[jorge]

he got UK Visa. When he arrived here then he thought maybe he could go to visit his family member to Dublin

[CR001]

He will likely need a visa for Dublin.

[ohara]

Interestingly, Indian and Chinese nationals with certain UK visas CAN travel to Ireland without an additional visa for short periods.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... isa-scheme

However this does not apply to those here under EEA free movement.

[jorge]

some friends suggested that he could flight to Belfast and then take train to Dublin. that there is no border check. is it true?

[noajthan]

Hi all,
My friend come visit me. he lives in spain.
He got eu family member permanent residence
in spain ( no eu ).
can he travel to Dublin without visa?

Thanks

.
UK and Eire form the CTA; the question is whether that applies to non-EEA non-resident aliens.

Article 20 card?

Travelling alone?

[jorge]

he has EU permenent residence card.
yeah he is travelling alone

[noajthan]

he has EU permenent residence card.
yeah he is travelling alone

Suggest wave that at the guards.

[Wanderer]

There are no checks on the Holyhead-Port Dublin or Holyhead-Dun Laorghaire (spel) ferries either generally.

[Richard W]

some friends suggested that he could flight to Belfast and then take train to Dublin. that there is no border check. is it true?

Hardly ever, it's probably criminal to cross without a visa if one is required, and if he's caught he's likely to be sent straight back to Spain. There are 'intelligence-driven' patrols, and I've a feeling there have been checks on the train, but they're rare.

An Article 10 card, a 'non-permanent' residence card as defined by Directive 2004/38/EC Article 10 is good enough to enter in Irish law (it counts as a visa), apparently even when travelling alone. (I'm not sure that Irish law actually applies to Irish officials.) Unfortunately, there is no such concession for foreign permanent residence cards.

For entry to the UK from Ireland, the CTA does not apply to visa nationals who don't have Irish visas. Similarly, a British visa may in some cases allow entry to Ireland for citizens of Bahrain, Montenegro, Serbia, Belarus, Oman, Thailand, Bosnia and Herzegovina, People’s Republic of China, Turkey, India, Qatar, Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Russia, UAE, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Uzbekistan or India. See Visa Requirements for entering Ireland and follow the links to the statutory instruments.

[Richard W]

There are no checks on the Holyhead-Port Dublin or Holyhead-Dun Laorghaire (spel) ferries either generally.

Jorge's friend would probably make it to Dublin; the issue is whether he would make it there lawfully.

Sp.: Dunleary

[jorge]

he is scare and he will be there only for 3 days in Dublin.

[jorge]

he is scare and he will be there only for 3 days in Dublin.

[noajthan]

he is scare and he will be there only for 3 days in Dublin.

So don't go. Or get a visa.

Noone here is going to endorse sneaking into another country.

[jorge]

Hi guys,
I received a reply from Irish Naturalisation and Immigration Service enquire if my friend needed visa to travel in Dublin. I am just confused litte bit if he need visa or not. Please read below their reply and let me know. thanks

Thank you for your email of 25/07/2016.

Non-nationals who are family members of a European Union citizen and
holders of a document called “Residence card of a family member of a Union
citizen” as referred to in Article 10 of Directive 2004/38/EC of the
European Parliament and of the Council of 29 April 2004, are not subject to
an Irish visa requirement.

Please contact the issuing authority for advice/guidance as to whether the
document/card you have comes within the definition of the Directive, as
implemented by that particular Member State.

[The Immigration Act 2004 (Visas) Order (S.I. No. 473 of 2014), Section 3
(c) states that non-nationals who are family members of a Union citizen and
holders of a document called 'residence card of a family member of a Union
citizen', as referred to in Article 10 of Directive 2004/38/EC of the
European Parliament and of the Council of 29 April 2004, are not subject to
an Irish visa requirement.

The quoted text is directly transcribed from the Directive itself. The
reason we refer you to the issuing authority is because there is no
uniformity in the wording of residence cards pertaining to the Directive
across member states. Therefore, it is for the issuing authority of each
member state to determine whether or not it falls under the terms of the
aforementioned Directive.]

Kind regards,

Visa Customer Services
Visa Office, Dublin
Irish Naturalisation and Immigration Service

[noajthan]

If no Article 10 RC get a visa.

[jorge]

I can't understand. If someone got RC by
married an eu citizen. Is it article 10 or not?
I am married with eu citizen. In my permanent
Card.
that issued by HO. On top is written " Residence
card" and below is written " residence card of a family
member of a union citizens.
Someone can explain to me. Thanks

[Richard W]

I can't understand. If someone got RC by
married an eu citizen. Is it article 10 or not?

The problem is the difference between the initial residence card (RC) and the permanent residence card (PRC) obtained by residing in the country for 5 years in accordance the local transposition of Directive 2004/38/EC. (In the UK, the 'local transposition' is the Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2006, variously referred to as the 'EEA Regulations' and the '2006 Regulations'.

The RC is defined by Article 10; the PRC is defined by Article 20. Thus, usually the spouse of an EU national living in another EU country would progress from an RC to a PRC.

A foreign RC (e.g. German), defined by Article 10, can be used to move about the EEA. There is no such provision for the PRC! Now, a foreign PRC can be used to move about the Schengen area, and the UKVI website says it can be used to enter the UK (in association with the EEA sponsor), but the EEA Regulations do not say that a foreign PRC can be used. Similarly, the Irish regulations say a foreign RC (the Article 10 object) can be used, but say nothing about a foreign PRC (the Article 20 object).

It seems that as one progresses from an RC to a PRC, one actually loses travel rights! Part of the problem is that an RC is required to say 'family member of a Union citizen', but there is no such requirement for a PRC. The Schengen area has removed the anomaly, the UK says it has, but Ireland seems not to have removed it.

[jorge]

Hi Richard,
If I understood right. With my PRC. I can travel
to Ireland without visa because it said residence
card on top and
below residence card of a family member of union citizen.
Only when you check all details in residence
card then someone can see permanent residence.

[Richard W]

With my PRC. I can travel to Ireland without visa because it said residence card on top and below residence card of a family member of union citizen.

The wording seems to have changed.

There seems to be nothing in Irish law that says you can enter on an Article 20 card, which is what you have. I don't know whether showing that card would work. It might even vary from immigration officer to officer!

We were surprised to see that the UK has started accepting Article 20 cards, without changing its laws; conceivably that was an EU-wide change.