Foreign Birth Registration?

[Michael123]

Probably best you didn't call Micheal, you would have only been more frustrated by the lack of information.

So looking at the timelines, it seems to me that it takes 4 months to just get anything to say that documents have been received and then the process starts taking at least 6 months - so that in itself takes it to 10. So another 2 months for me to get the first phase!

What I don't get is why it takes so long to return the documents, if they have added people to the register then what possible reason is there for them to keep hold of people's documents for any longer?

There are many reasons why their system fails.

To add to my journey I have possibly found a new property, trouble is that I don't want to put a spanner in the works by moving to a new address but I also don't want to let the property go because of the FBR application and the fact they seem so unequipped.

Are you aware that the requirement of the FBR is that the person which you are applying through (your grandmother) had to have been born within the last 99 years from the date of your application?










JOKING!! Welcome to the world of FBR disappointment!!

[Sulla]

First, let me say a warm welcome to all the new people that have stopped lurking and started posting on the board lately. It's great to have some fresh information and new perspectives.

Court

I agree that the DFA not printing certificates is the cause of some delays. For instance Richard, Brawn and myself have clearly been impacted by this. However, for others who did not yet make it on to the register or in some cases even get their applications acknowledged as received, this is not the primary cause of their wait. I don't know what is. Some other inefficiency, which will likely be excused on the basis of high application volume. In my view, the FBR department has not been doing a stellar job on multiple fronts. Customer service, for example, is certainly up there as one of their principal areas with massive room for improvement.

Edwards

I had expected my application to at least be in the process of getting approved but to find out it has only just arrived with the DFA, I am very disappointed.
I wondered if there was anyone else who submitted their application in person to the Edinburgh embassy who has experienced the same thing?

I understand and relate to your frustration and sense of disappointment. You are in the right place. This board is essentially Club Disappointment. George R. R. Martin probably feels that the DFA are taking a bit long to get my FBR certificate into print and posted.

On a more serious note, there are plenty of people in the same or very similar position to you who applied through the London embassy. For those that applied through the Edinburgh consulate, (Zippy / Richard) the situation has been a bit better. However, both of their applications took place well before yours and it may be that you got caught in an October surge.

Nydccub

The image of the overburdened, underpaid, toiling civil servant fails to resonate with me. In EU nations, it's far more like a job for life with good working conditions, decent salary and comfortable pension scheme. In order to sustain this and other frivolities, the tax burden across most of the western world is oppressive. I had to leave the UK and change my domicile and tax residence first to St. Kitts and then Malaysia in order to escape this. Even still, I pay plenty to both HMRC and the Irish Revenue each year on property income. In return, I do expect some level of service from the institutions of state - especially when it is a paid service like FBR.

[Richard74]

I wondered if there was anyone else who submitted their application in person to the Edinburgh embassy who has experienced the same thing?

edwards02, welcome

It is good to see another applicant through the Edinburgh consulate. You will see my story so far at the bottom of the previous page:

* Application submitted in person to Edinburgh Consulate: 31-Jul-18
* Additional documentation submitted via post to Edinburgh Consulate: 02-Aug-18
* Email confirming receipt in "Dublin" (/Balbriggan?) and "priority processing"; request for additional documentation (clerk at consulate had advised me that copies notarised by her were sufficient, which I was sceptical of... sure enough, they weren't!): 27-Nov-18
* Further supporting documentation submitted via post to Balbriggan: 28-Nov-18
* Email acknowledgement of documents received, "submitted to supervisor for approval": 04-Dec-18
* Entered onto FBR (unbeknownst to me): 12-Dec-18
* Email request submitted for progress update: 15-Jan-19
* Email reply received confirming FBR entry / "you are an Irish citizen as of 12-Dec-18": 17-Jan-19
* Email request submitted for update on return of certificate and documentation: 30-Jan-18
* Email reply received: "Our system indicates that the documents have yet to be dispatched to you. Unfortunately, we cannot provide a definite date for dispatch at present.": 31-Jan-19

Since then... nothing.

Finally phoned up on 26-Feb-19. Very rushed and nervous call handler, seemingly couldn't wait to get me off the line. After going around in circles for several minutes, finally got out of them that no certificates had been printed since DECEMBER!! Advised that test new certificates had finally arrived the previous day (Mon 25-Feb-19). Advised that my certificate would be printed and dispatched to me "any day now" (or words to similar effect). Again... since then, nothing.

I too was disheartened upon my visit to Randolph Crescent, to be told that they anticipated an 9-10 month lead time (some such as michael123 are now being told North of 12...), when the website (at the time) said 6 months. In fairness, the process since then wasn't too bad - my point of entry onto the register came within 5 months of my visit to the consulate. But, like Sulla and a few others, it appears the very final hurdle of my application, the printing and dispatch of the certificate, is now proving a massive snag. And more generally, things seem to have slowed a lot since the July and August applicants.

Please keep us posted how you get on - I am curious to see the progress of a fellow Edinburgh applicant. I think I am away to contact Balbriggan again in the coming days - it is now 1 month since their last update, and this printing debacle is really starting to drag. If they yield little, I might then get back in touch with Edinburgh, and see if they are any more helpful...

[Sulla]

Richard

It just occurred to me after re-reading your timeline that my application did not actually progress behind yours as I previously assumed. I was informed that my application had been submitted for approval on November 29th 2018. I was also told on January 10th 2019 that I had been added to the FBR. However, both of these communications just indicated the status at the time of inquiry. I do not actually know when my application was put forward for approval and when I was entered on to the FBR. Merely that these events took place before November 29th and January 10th respectively.

I always thought I had been waiting for the certificate for 2 months 12 days. Actually, it could be closer to 3 months.

[Sulla]

Today, I received several communications from the DFA, all within half an hour.

1) Initially, a confirmation of a freedom of Information request I submitted. This relates to statistical information pertinent to incomplete applications and what is done with them.

2) Next, a response to my complaint from the head of the FBR department. The content did not attempt to address, far less deny, the subject of my original complaint. This, you may recall was that delays to my application (and others of course) had been caused by inappropriate handling of incomplete applications. No mention of that whatsoever. This is despite the fact that it took up 95% of the text in my complaint submission.

I did however, get a firm date for FBR certificate printing. That occurred on March 8th 2019, according to this person and has already been sent to China. I should, therefore, be days away from receipt. The rest of the reply consisted of the usual generic stuff you would expect - FBR is complex, every case is unique, our processes are rigorous. Somewhat questionably, she also referenced their pride in delivering high levels of customer service.

It closed by referencing my FOI request stating that they are aware it exists and is ongoing.

I would categorize it as a hopeful riposte. Essentially, the cause of the grievance (the lack of the FBRC) has been removed. Therefore, don't contest the issues raised and hope the individual is mollified enough to let it slide now he has what he wants. This is standard practice for many organisations. In the majority of cases (yes, I have some experience of this with other large public bodies) this bodes well and is a positive sign that if you continue to push, a settlement will probably be forthcoming.

I am not going to post the full text of the reply here, as I have not decided how to proceed yet.

3) Lastly, I heard from the embassy, asking when I could accept courier delivery. Finally, glimmers of hope.


Court

When I read the line about the pride they take in their customer service, I could not help but thinking what your answer to that would be. Did you receive any response to your own complaint yet?

[Jaxx22]

Are you aware that the requirement of the FBR is that the person which you are applying through (your grandmother) had to have been born within the last 99 years from the date of your application?










JOKING!! Welcome to the world of FBR disappointment!!

At least you are laughing about it. I hope that you hear something positive about your application soon.

I wonder if applications just sit in their envelopes for the time it takes to say 'we have it and are now [going to sit on it for months and months] going to process it.

I hope those waiting for the certificates receive them soon.

I have seen other citizenship processes and they are not as complicated or as long as this one. Just apply, take documents to office - they copy them and hand them back to you and viola... it is all in process! It can be so easy.

I am sure that Brexit hasn't helped but it should really have been anticipated.

[Chloe2019]

Another long-term lurker! Just to add my timeline...

29 Aug - online application submitted. Sent docs to London embassy
13 Sept - confirmed docs were received in Ireland and the six months processing time supposedly started

That made 13 March 2019 my 'due date' although having followed this board since December-ish my hopes were low. I haven't tried to contact them as I'm not particularly in a rush but feeling guilty because my mum would now like to apply for a passport (I'm applying through my maternal grandmother) and it probably would have been quicker for her to apply for the passport first had I known they were prioritising passport applications.

[spelga51]

Hello everyone!

I have been following this thread for a number of months now since submitting my FBR Irish Citizenship application on the 1st of October 2018. I submitted my application along with all the required documents in person to the Edinburgh embassy where it was checked by a member of staff who told me I would not hear anything until I received my certificate of citizenship. Today (Thursday 21st March 2019) almost 6 months after submitting my application I received an email from the DFA stating that my "application and supporting documentation has now been received" and that applications can take "up to 6 months to process". As with many other people on this thread I am very frustrated that it has taken so long just for my application to be received and to be quite honest I don't understand why. I am aware that there is a very long wait time but surely not to be received? I had expected my application to at least be in the process of getting approved but to find out it has only just arrived with the DFA, I am very disappointed.
I wondered if there was anyone else who submitted their application in person to the Edinburgh embassy who has experienced the same thing?

Hello! I submitted my docs at the end of November via Edinburgh and received a similar email this week.

I called the DFA for further clarification and they said it would probably be another 6 months before I have the FBR certificate due to Brexit backlog. I'm happy to wait as long as I get my passport before Christmas...

[jpauls]

"The estimated* issue date for your Passport is: 20/03/2019."

Sean, any update on your passport? My estimated date was 15/3 and as of today it's printing, so only a few days later than they claimed. Hopefully yours isn't far behind!

[Court2]

Today, I received several communications from the DFA, all within half an hour.

1) Initially, a confirmation of a freedom of Information request I submitted. This relates to statistical information pertinent to incomplete applications and what is done with them.

2) Next, a response to my complaint from the head of the FBR department. The content did not attempt to address, far less deny, the subject of my original complaint. This, you may recall was that delays to my application (and others of course) had been caused by inappropriate handling of incomplete applications. No mention of that whatsoever. This is despite the fact that it took up 95% of the text in my complaint submission.

I did however, get a firm date for FBR certificate printing. That occurred on March 8th 2019, according to this person and has already been sent to China. I should, therefore, be days away from receipt. The rest of the reply consisted of the usual generic stuff you would expect - FBR is complex, every case is unique, our processes are rigorous. Somewhat questionably, she also referenced their pride in delivering high levels of customer service.

It closed by referencing my FOI request stating that they are aware it exists and is ongoing.

I would categorize it as a hopeful riposte. Essentially, the cause of the grievance (the lack of the FBRC) has been removed. Therefore, don't contest the issues raised and hope the individual is mollified enough to let it slide now he has what he wants. This is standard practice for many organisations. In the majority of cases (yes, I have some experience of this with other large public bodies) this bodes well and is a positive sign that if you continue to push, a settlement will probably be forthcoming.

I am not going to post the full text of the reply here, as I have not decided how to proceed yet.

3) Lastly, I heard from the embassy, asking when I could accept courier delivery. Finally, glimmers of hope.


Court

When I read the line about the pride they take in their customer service, I could not help but thinking what your answer to that would be. Did you receive any response to your own complaint yet?

Sounds like today has been a decent day for you then! You hearing from the embassy I assume means the certificate has now reached your country?

I have had no replies to anything further as of yet. Were your replies to the FOI and complaint via email?

It would be interesting if you could share more about what the DFA said about incomplete applications as throughout their application process for FBR it states any missing items will mean returning all documents and a refund. I guess that must happen very infrequently!

[nydccub]

Just to be clear, I haven't applied to FBR as a means of dodging my taxes.

I sympathize with everyone in this forum who are stressed and anxious over Brexit.

[Richard74]

Phoned Balbriggan today. About 40mins over 3 attempts, but got through in the end. Handler a bit less jittery than the lad I spoke to last, albeit still a bit rushed, understandably. Some good news.

Sulla - my certificate was printed on 10-Mar-19. Apparently printing of certs has only recommended as of the start of this month. Handler apologised that he did not have visibility on the system of the status of dispatch - says he is going to report back for process improvement that it would be good to have postal tracking number on system. Still doesn't much excuse 10+ days from print to dispatch, but there we are - am sure all in this thread have grown accustomed to such timescales.

Apparently I was the third person he had spoken to today, whose cert has been printed, and not yet received. After a (semi-)flippant remark from me that perhaps I would call back if I hadn't received anything in the next month, he actually told me to call back if nothing had been received in post by end of next week (29th March, i.e. Brexit Day). Which in fairness was good of him, and reassures me somewhat.

Light slowly peeping at end of tunnel...

[Court2]

Phoned Balbriggan today. About 40mins over 3 attempts, but got through in the end. Handler a bit less jittery than the lad I spoke to last, albeit still a bit rushed, understandably. Some good news.

Sulla - my certificate was printed on 10-Mar-19. Apparently printing of certs has only recommended as of the start of this month. Handler apologised that he did not have visibility on the system of the status of dispatch - says he is going to report back for process improvement that it would be good to have postal tracking number on system. Still doesn't much excuse 10+ days from print to dispatch, but there we are - am sure all in this thread have grown accustomed to such timescales.

Apparently I was the third person he had spoken to today, whose cert has been printed, and not yet received. After a (semi-)flippant remark from me that perhaps I would call back if I hadn't received anything in the next month, he actually told me to call back if nothing had been received in post by end of next week (29th March, i.e. Brexit Day). Which in fairness was good of him, and reassures me somewhat.

Light slowly peeping at end of tunnel...

Congrats!

You said in an earlier post, you had to submit further documents directly to the new FBR office. Please can you provide the address?

If anyone else has sent additional documents please can you also confirm the address? I do not wish to use the London embassy as they seem to have quite literally been cut out of the process now!

[BrexitEscapee]

Just to be clear, I haven't applied to FBR as a means of dodging my taxes.

Your comment has become a non-sequitur because it relates to a series of posts where I remonstrated with a poster in this thread who is seeking citizenship for tax reasons. The mods have now deleted these posts thanks to the non-diplomatic language I used - I apologise for that.

However, there were a couple of important points raised in that discussion and I wouldn't want them to be lost just because of my pathetic keyboard warrior antics:

1. DFA is a publicly-funded department. It relies on taxes raised from Irish citizens and it ultimately answers to its citizens. No 'man in the street' in any country will welcome a prospective citizen whose sole objective is to avoid paying their fair share of taxes. If they then find out that person is strongly criticising their country's under-funded immigration department, they're inevitably going to questions their country's generous immigration policy. A bit of patience won't kill you.

2. A key piece of data that was brought to light in the now-deleted discussion is that a DFA clerical officer earns around 23 thousand Euros. Whatever your reason for applying, and your frustrations at having to wait a few extra months while the UK slits its own throat, let's at least be nice to the DFA staff - they're not the pampered bureaucrats that some people will have you believe.

[Court2]

Their salaries are irrelevant, we all would like them to just do their job!

And in doing so, 1 automated email to all applicants currently in the queue, apologising, giving a reason for the delay and a rough estimate of when to receive their certificates would help.

That's basic customer service, constantly lacking from the DFA and what is driving their phone calls through the roof! It's a self defeating system

[nic123]

9 months on Monday but patiently waiting for that email. Went for approval November 2018.

[upliam]

7 Months Today. Also waiting for that E-Mail!

[Sulla]

Court

I could not agree more. The salary of a person is not a relevant piece of information. They elected to do that job and should perform it to a reasonable standard. Your customer service remarks are also spot on. A series of emails to applicants would have dialed things down considerably and cut their communications burden substantially.

The embassy did not say in their E-mail if the certificate had arrived. They merely asked for advice on the time I would be available to take receipt.

The other two communications from the DFA were both also via E-Mail. I would love to share more information with you regarding their response to the complaint about the impact of incomplete applications. However, no part of her response even touched on that issue. It was, in essence, the entire body of complaint. Instead of answering that, she opted to talk about why FBR could be delayed in general terms. Most of these stock phrases I already posted. When I hear more from the FOI request - due April 4th - I will let you know.

BerxitEscapee

I am truly sorry that your remarks were censored. I am against all forms of restrictions on freedom of expression. I would, however, respectfully request that you don't misrepresent me. I have not said that I seek Irish citizenship for tax reasons. It would be ridiculous to do so. Citizenships don't bestow tax advantages. That is determined by tax residence and domicile. The only people who might consider a citizenship as part of a tax reduction strategy would be U.S. citizens who aimed to renounce. I am not in that category. I have acquired Irish citizenship in order to remain an EU citizen. It brings me no benefits (even for travel) over what I already have with my British and St. Kitts passports.

Richard

Yes, at last it appears things are well and truly coming to a conclusion for us. Probably for Brawn as well. I assume since my printing took place 2 days before yours, that I was correct to assume that I have been on the FBR since sometime in December and thus the wait time has been in excess of three months, rather than two. We will know for sure when it finally arrives.

[sean015]

Sean, any update on your passport? My estimated date was 15/3 and as of today it's printing, so only a few days later than they claimed. Hopefully yours isn't far behind!

As of today (22/3), the passport tracker still says that my application is being processed. Last Wednesday (20/3) was the estimated date for it to be issued. Hopefully, this means that my passport will be issued next week if you just got yours issued. I think that I read somewhere that it takes up to 10 business days for the passport to arrive back at the consulate after being issued in Dublin. I would assume that they send it on via courier after that point.

[BrexitEscapee]

BerxitEscapeeI am truly sorry that your remarks were censored. I am against all forms of restrictions on freedom of expression. I would, however, respectfully request that you don't misrepresent me.

I bent over backwards not to identify you in my last post as you had every right to report the undiplomatic language I'd used in earlier posts. However, now you've chosen to identify yourself as the tax exile who's apoplectic with rage about an underfunded Irish government department, it's fair to ask: what's your motivation for wishing to become an Irish citizen? In your now-deleted posts, you stated that you limit your time in countries to less than 180 days to avoid paying your fair share of taxes, and you've moved to the Caribbean and South East Asia to avoid contributing to the funding of your home country - the UK. So, given that Irish tax laws are comparable to the UK's, why are you so keen to become Irish? Are you a big Ceilidh fan? Or do you have an obsessive interest in the folklore of Ireland (obviously excluding anything that involves the lazy feckless Irish peasants that have been deliberately delaying your FBR certificate delivery)?

You're obviously a very principled pillar of the community so I'm sure you wouldn't just be adding an extra passport to your collection so you can easily stay away from any particular country long enough to avoid paying their taxes...

[Richard74]

Congrats!

You said in an earlier post, you had to submit further documents directly to the new FBR office. Please can you provide the address?

If anyone else has sent additional documents please can you also confirm the address? I do not wish to use the London embassy as they seem to have quite literally been cut out of the process now!

Hopefully this is OK to post. As it may prove of use to others also. And I would imagine it's probably out there online somewhere anyway. But if not, admins feel free to delate, and will send via PM.

FBR Section
Department of Foreign Affairs & Trade
PO Box 9718
Balbriggan
Co Dublin
Ireland

[Michael123]

7 Months Today. Also waiting for that E-Mail!

7 yesterday

[Michael123]

7 Months Today. Also waiting for that E-Mail!

7 yesterday, maybe I should have told them that In am Pregnant!

[PasadenaTom]

BerxitEscapeeI am truly sorry that your remarks were censored. I am against all forms of restrictions on freedom of expression. I would, however, respectfully request that you don't misrepresent me.

I bent over backwards not to identify you in my last post as you had every right to report the undiplomatic language I'd used in earlier posts.

I am sorry I missed some of your posts. I've been away from this forum for a couple of weeks, because I have been disgusted with the ridiculous chest-thumping and outrage at the Irish government, and the idle threats about baseless lawsuits. I thought it was we US citizens who had a reputation for expecting the whole world would bow down to our expectations for service. But obviously we Americans are not alone. Why apply for citizenship in a country you despise, unless all you want is an EU passport?

I have always tried to help people on this forum. And you are someone that I think has done the same. I couldn't possibly count the number of times I have quoted your experience on late civil registation of a a grandparent's birth. I have to believe that is enormously helpful to many. It has been a service to this community. But complaints are not.

Like you, I am am now Irish citizen. I am proud of it. And I am grateful to the Irish government for granting me that privilege. There is no other country that would accept me so easily.

I feel sorry for people like Michael, who has asked for my advice in the past, and is patiently waiting for news. I look forward to hearing that his citizenship has being granted. But for those who really don't care about being a citizen of the Irish Republic and simply want an EU passport - especially if it means suing the Irish government in the process? You can go ***** yourselves. Ireland doesn't need people like you.

If I get censored or banned for this, so be it.

Éirinn go Brách

[Sulla]

BrexitEscapee

The term tax exile is a bit of a misnomer, but I'm fine with the label. I can live in the U.K. for 182 days a year without liability. Actually, I have spent exactly 14 days there in the last decade. The underfunded public services are not exactly groaning under the weight of my usage. I do not return because I prefer other places, not because of anything to do with taxation. If I really wanted to, I could become a non-domiciled British resident, which would allow me to live in the U.K. on an unlimited basis and be exempt from U.K. income & capital gains taxes except on remittances into the U.K or money actually earned there. You may disagree with that in principle, but it is nonetheless the legal situation.

I pay taxes on property income in both the U.K. and Ireland. In both instances 20% minus some deductibles. The average U.K. worker pays circa GBP 6000 in income tax and NI to the government annually. I pay almost double that to HMRC and just over that to the Irish revenue. This is despite not living in either country. I think that's my fair share. Certainly, it's what I am legally obligated to pay.

The Irish passport confers no tax advantages on me whatsoever. It you think it does, please enlighten me as to what they are. A person with one passport (preferably Tier A) can enjoy the same opportunity to relocate to a tax friendly location and reduce or eliminate their tax liability as a person with 5-6 passports. Tax (except for U.S. citizens or PR holders) is determined by residence, not citizenship. Check up on it if you disbelieve me.

My motivation for acquisition of Irish citizenship has already been plainly stated. I wish to remain an EU citizen. I think this is not an unusual motive among British applicants. In addition to remaining an EU citizen, I like the fact that Ireland is a traditionally neutral country which is a non NATO member. Since I spend time in China and Russia every year, I will use the Irish passport to enter both of those states in the future. Coming from Scotland originally, I have precisely no affection for Ceilidh.

I did not and would not make any remarks about peasants. I am not quite so medieval in my mindset. That is purely a product of your imagination. Also, please note, I did not flag any post to the moderators. In my view, as long as you don't use excessive profanity, it's all good. I suggest from now on we just agree to differ and stick to discussing the FBR process. You can PM me if you really want to continue the discussion.

All the best