Past-Deception-effect on ILR

[skyer]

Moderators, seniors, need help here. Please don't get upset on reading this deception case as human make mistakes.

I need someone to shed light on this please.

If someone had visa refused in past for using forged document, then switched on another visas and successfully been granted, what effects this can have on ILR application?

Can Home Office go back to past?

Having searched forum on for Deception cases, cannot find any thing to get some understanding, anyone knows any deception cases?

Any link/reference to law or court cases plz?



Found this but HO has not implemented this on this particular case so not sure.

1.2 RFL5.2 How long are applicants automatically refused for?
If an applicant falls to be refused under 320(7B), applications must be refused for the following periods:

12 months if they left the UK voluntarily, not at the expense (directly or indirectly) of the secretary of state;
2 years if they left the UK voluntarily, at the expense (directly or indirectly) of the secretary of state, more than 2 years ago; and the date the person left the UK was no more than 6 months after the date on which the person was given notice of the removal decision, or no more than 6 months after the date on which the person no longer had a pending appeal; whichever is the later
5 years if they left UK voluntarily, at public expense;
5 years if they were removed from the UK as a condition of a caution issued in accordance with s.134 legal aid, sentencing and punishment of offenders act 2012
10 years if they were removed or deported from the UK;
10 years if they practised deception (which includes using false documentation) in support of a previous visa application.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... 20#header2

[seasky]

Moderators, seniors, need help here. Please don't get upset on reading this deception case as human make mistakes.

I need someone to shed light on this please.

If someone had visa refused in past for using forged document, then switched on another visas and successfully been granted, what effects this can have on ILR application?

Can Home Office go back to past?

Having searched forum on for Deception cases, cannot find any thing to get some understanding, anyone knows any deception cases?

Any link/reference to law or court cases plz?



Found this but HO has not implemented this on this particular case so not sure.

1.2 RFL5.2 How long are applicants automatically refused for?
If an applicant falls to be refused under 320(7B), applications must be refused for the following periods:

12 months if they left the UK voluntarily, not at the expense (directly or indirectly) of the secretary of state;
2 years if they left the UK voluntarily, at the expense (directly or indirectly) of the secretary of state, more than 2 years ago; and the date the person left the UK was no more than 6 months after the date on which the person was given notice of the removal decision, or no more than 6 months after the date on which the person no longer had a pending appeal; whichever is the later
5 years if they left UK voluntarily, at public expense;
5 years if they were removed from the UK as a condition of a caution issued in accordance with s.134 legal aid, sentencing and punishment of offenders act 2012
10 years if they were removed or deported from the UK;
10 years if they practised deception (which includes using false documentation) in support of a previous visa application.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... 20#header2

If you share your story in more detail (how did you get a visa post deception? What was the deception?) higher chance the forum can help you out as obviously this is not a simple case

[skyer]

Thank you for response without any negative remarks.

Applied for visa with qualification, college got reported to UKBA, refused with deception due to alleged fake qualification along with many other applicants.

Applied to PBS visa, got it without mentioning of deception, was unexpected. Then extended PBS visa without issues.


Please can you respond to below and provide any comments to help in anyway about future ILR application.

If someone had visa refused in past for using forged document, then switched on another visas and successfully been granted, what effects this can have on ILR application?

Can Home Office go back to past?

Having searched forum on for Deception cases, cannot find any thing to get some understanding, anyone knows any deception cases?

Any link/reference to law or court cases plz?

[secret.simon]

Can Home Office go back to past?

Well, the Home Office will obviously have its own records on your past applications, including any refusals.

Apply for an SAR with the Home Office to see what they have on record for you.

If the deception was genuine (or the Home Office regards it as genuine), even assuming you get ILR (on which others will advise), it will of course result in refusals of any naturalisation applications (as you will have failed the good character requirement)

[skyer]

Thank you Secret Simon for your helpful post and the links you included in your response.


HO in fact knows about past deception as a result of bad quality qualification. But also the fact, they have not refused future applications since deception, only refused that visa application which had this bad quality qualification, since then they granted all visas with no reference to deception.

SAR is good idea which will be used in coming days just to see but it will highly likely show deception in the past.

Will they bring deception in ILR application?

To be honest, one step at a time due to current situation. Can they go back to past even though they did not follow rules themselves by not refusing PBS applications following deception?

Is there anyone on this forum who had deception in past and then ILR?

Your input on Naturalization is very good to know, does it mean that whoever has deception in the past, they are of not good character for ever or is there a time limit of this condition?

[secret.simon]

But also the fact, they have not refused future applications since deception, only refused that visa application which had this bad quality qualification, since then they granted all visas with no reference to deception.

Each application would be reviewed in its entirety, taking any past comments into account. Conversely, just because subsequent visas have been granted does not mean that a grant of ILR will not take any past records of deception into account. That is why you should find out, by an SAR, what comments Home Office caseworkers have made on your file.

Your input on Naturalization is very good to know, does it mean that whoever has deception in the past, they are of not good character for ever or is there a time limit of this condition?

I believe (I could be wrong) that there would be a ten year ban from the date of the purported deception.

[noajthan]

Thank you Secret Simon for your helpful post and the links you included in your response.


...

Your input on Naturalization is very good to know, does it mean that whoever has deception in the past, they are of not good character for ever or is there a time limit of this condition?

HO are not Philistines. It is recognised people may change. It takes time.
And it is assessed on a balance of probabilities.

You can get a steer on how a caseworker will weigh up and assess the merits of your case, here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... _D_v02.pdf

[skyer]

Thank you Secret Simon.

Are there any examples on this forum of similar cases and are these any court cases?

Sorry to be pain but having searched can not find anything related to this issue.

What law/rules say about this situation? Can Home Office bring deception issue anytime they like?

Should it not be that they have not followed rules as written so know they should ignore this for ILR application as they have done in PBS applications by granting them.

[skyer]

Hello Noajthan,

Thank you for your input.

The link you shared is for Naturalisation by the looks of it, which gives two positives, one deception is valid for 10 years then Naturalisation can be accepted, secondly they allow exceptions so might get luck there as have been getting so far.


One mistake/factor alone should not be only way to see someone's good character, specially when it was years back, here in reference to deception.

Are there no course cases or any other reference that you can share with your experience related to deception?

Here main aim is to get ILR, any input on ILR application and whether past deception will affect it?


https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... _D_v02.pdf


8.4 Deception in Previous Applications
The decision maker will normally refuse an application where there is evidence that a
person has employed deception either:
a. during the citizenship application process; or
b. in a previous immigration application.
It is irrelevant whether the deception was material to the grant of leave or not.
The decision maker will normally refuse an application if there has been any deception
in the 10 years prior to the application for citizenship. For these purposes, the
deception is regarded as continuing until the date on which it is discovered or
admitted. For example, if a person used deception in an application in 2008, but that
was discovered or admitted to in 2010, the 10 year period would start in 2010.



Section 10: Exceptional Grants
There may be exceptional cases where a person will be granted citizenship even
where they ordinarily would fall to be refused.
Exceptions will generally fall into one of the following categories:
a. the person’s conviction is for an offence which is not recognised in the UK and
there is no comparable offence. See section 2.4 - Non-UK Convictions; or
b. the person has one single non-custodial sentence, it occurred within the first 2
years of the 3 (i.e. the person has had no offences within the last 12 months),
there are strong countervailing factors which suggest the person is of good
character in all other regards and the decision to refuse would be
disproportionate.
All proposals to grant exceptionally must be approved by the Chief
Caseworker.
Any proposal to grant a person who has a sentence of 4 years or more
imprisonment must be approved by Ministers before the decision is
implemented.

[skyer]

Hello All,

Please could you kindly advise/comment on this case where in the past there was deception, then HO have been granting visas, question is what will happen to ILR application?

Request you to share any court cases, any examples on this forum which are relevant as cannot find any?

Please provide help in anyway.

Some solicitors are very harsh, but some are saying HO can not bring deception now when they have been granting visas since past.

Other factors to support are good character throughout 10 years, family life, having good job, etc.. Can they outweigh over deception?

Any ideas.

[skyer]

Dear Obie and other Seniors,

Please could you advise or share your views on this particular situation about deception in the past and future effects on ILR.

Thanks.

[skyer]

Hello all,

So many views and not even one to comment, suggestion on this issue.


Moderators, please could you kindly share your views, provide any help you can.


Seasky,

Any reason, you have not shared your views at all on this.

Thank you.

[CR001]

Seasky,

Any reason, you have not shared your views at all on this.

Thank you.

Members will offer advice if and when they wish to. Maybe user Seasky can't answer your question.

[noajthan]

Hello all,

So many views and not even one to comment, suggestion on this issue.


Moderators, please could you kindly share your views, provide any help you can.


Seasky,

Any reason, you have not shared your views at all on this.

Thank you.

You have already received guidance and advice.
Including from members seasky & secret.simon.

Have you acted on any of it yet?

[skyer]

Hello

Applied for SAR about couple of weeks ago, waiting for any update on it. This was advised by Secret.Simon..

Seasky,

Was just interested in more details which have been provided here on this thread but since then he has not come back with his views.



Does anyone know if someone else had similar experience on deception and then ILR?

Spoke to some people, they say this is unique situation as HO should have refused subsequent applications due to previous deception but they did not so they cannot bring past deception now for ILR when they have been granting visas.

Is there any rules or previous cases which can help with this case?

Thank you everyone for your time and patience.

[skyer]

Afternoon Moderators and other members,

Received SAR report, it has copies of all bad quality education documents which were used to get PSW. They have full record of deception, all court decisions related to deception.

Still Home Office have been approving visas based on point based system despite having deception information on system.


Requesting your advice and input on this whatever it is as what are chances for ILR success?

Is there any one who got ILR after deception?

Can HO go back to past while they have clearly not followed the rules in this case?

Any suggestions please.


A lot is on stake, please help.

[noajthan]

Afternoon Moderators and other members,

Received SAR report, it has copies of all bad quality education documents which were used to get PSW. They have full record of deception, all court decisions related to deception.

Still Home Office have been approving visas based on point based system despite having deception information on system.

Requesting your advice and input on this whatever it is as what are chances for ILR success?

Is there any one who got ILR after deception?

Can HO go back to past while they have clearly not followed the rules in this case?

Any suggestions please.

A lot is on stake, please help.

You may have been given benefit of doubt and/or an element of discretion may have been applied previously.
You cannot rely on this every time for every visa.

You cannot rely on any such consideration (if it was applied to a visa/ILR) if you have ambitions for citizenship because different legislation and requirements (and standards) will apply.

[skyer]

noajthan

Thank you for coming back on this.

It is not one application that they approved, they have approved several since deception committed.

Currently even to get ILR is big thing so focusing on that really, any suggestion, any advice on this please which can help in this situation?

Will having family, anything else can help to get ILR despite having deception on record?

Can not find any one else who had similar situation.

Have spoken to solicitors, paid consultation, then been told there is no way for ILR due to deception in the past. Really stressful time.

Please advise hopeful ideas.

[skyer]

Requesting members to share their opinions/suggestions on this case please?

[vinny]

Refusal under 322(2) would depend on the discretion of the caseworker.

Did you declare the past deception in your previous successful applications?

Some caselaws.

[skyer]

Vinny,

Thank you very much. This is really helpful but I will request some more help specific to this case.

I have gone through all case laws, I find no successful case where deception was involved but then they all are different and no one had situation like me.

I find below case some how little relevant.

IA466072014 [2015] UKAITUR IA466072014 (14 August 2015) (View without highlighting) [5%]
([2015] UKAITUR IA466072014; From United Kingdom Immigration and Asylum (AIT/IAC) Unreported Judgments; 59 KB)

Yes, I did declare deception in past applications on which they granted visas. Anyway they have full record of deception as it shows in SAR report.

Please could you advise on my case?

What you think of below points?

Deception was more than 6 years ago, HO granted my visas following deception, have family life with children, have good education following that deception, do these factors not have more weightage over deception?

[vinny]

Yes, I did declare deception in past applications on which they granted visas. Anyway they have full record of deception as it shows in SAR report.

That's good.

If refused ILR on the basis of a past deception, then perhaps you may also argue

In effect, therefore, it is contended that, having waived that refusal or potential refusal on three separate occasions, it is unreasonable and/or unlawful for the respondent now to seek to revisit that refusal.

...The issue was whether, having granted three successive periods of leave, it was reasonable, proper or fair or lawful for the respondent to have, in effect, resurrected the issue to refuse subsequently.

[skyer]

Vinny,

You have done a job of barrister here, seriously I have paid so much fees for consultation and not even once someone gave positive advice and came up with these relevant case law.

It will be absolutely fair if I can pay you any charges for this as one one can understand what this means to me and how much I have struggled to get professional advice.

The case you quoted is very good and very relevant to me. Mine is probably stronger as I am sure we declared deception in applications which HO still granted even ticked yes to deception and gave explanatory note.

This case mentions of 2nd hearing as it was not concluded as below.

27. In the circumstances, therefore, I shall set aside the decision to be remade in the light of arguments to be presented. Given the need for further evidence that re-hearing shall be before the First-tier Tribunal in accordance with the Senior President’s Practice Direction.

Would you be able to find that case to know what happened as what was final decision?



Thank you and much obliged.

[vinny]

Haven't found anything more on that case.

Good luck!

[dancingguy05]

Hi Skyer
Any luck with ur ilr
I am in similar situation now

I was on student visa
Visa hsmp application refused in 2008 under deception but was allowed to stay as I had a valid student visa at the time of refusal

Granted PSW in 2010 despite of disclosing deception

Later applied for tier 1 ntrprneur visa which was refused in May 2013. Won appeal in April 2014 as the judge at first tier tribunal squashed the decision and was granted tier 1 entrepreneur visa.

I am genuinely doing business now in fact expanded business as three branches.

I am going to one day service day after tomorrow for ILR under long residency (10years). Worried and concerned


Any advice would be very helpful and assuring