Past-Deception-effect on ILR

[skyer]

Hello Dancing guy,

It is kind of good that there is someone else who has similar issue.

You should be fine as HO as has been granting you visa, are you going with a solicitor?

What was reason of your Entrepreneur refusal? If it was deception, on what basis judge granted you visa?


Please could you contact me via PM as well.

Thank you.

[dancingguy05]

Hello Dancing guy,

It is kind of good that there is someone else who has similar issue.

You should be fine as HO as has been granting you visa, are you going with a solicitor?

What was reason of your Entrepreneur refusal? If it was deception, on what basis judge granted you visa?


Please could you contact me via PM as well.

Thank you.

Hi Skyer thanks for the reply

I am going with a solicitor

The judge said it was unlawful to refuse the tier 1 Entreprenuer visa in 2012 when PSW was issued in 2010 using a descretion despite of knowing previous deception in 2008

But worried a lot now

Tx

[skyer]

You really stand a very strong chance. HO has used discretion and there is no reason they will not.

Please could you tell me which solicitor?

Please can you PM me as well.

I can understand why you are worried.

[dancingguy05]

You really stand a very strong chance. HO has used discretion and there is no reason they will not.

Please could you tell me which solicitor?

Please can you PM me as well.

I can understand why you are worried.

Hopefully fingers cross
It was unfortunate before. But doing business well now

xxxxxx. but pls do ur basic ground work

Stressed n worried

Moderator edit: Solicitor name removed.

[Casa]

You really stand a very strong chance. HO has used discretion and there is no reason they will not.

Please could you tell me which solicitor?

Please can you PM me as well.

I can understand why you are worried.

Members only have the PM facility after they have contributed 30 posts.

[dancingguy05]

Sorry moderator.. Thought it was pm and mentioned the solicitors name..will keep in mind
Tx

[skyer]

Are you going to Sheffield or which center for same day appointment?

Business will add positive point. Family can be another plus if you have.

[dancingguy05]

Are you going to Sheffield or which center for same day appointment?



Business will add positive point. Family can be another plus if you have.

I am going Croydon
I have family but I am applying later.
Fingers cross

[skyer]

I would not have advised Croydon as they seem to be stricter than others.

Which Entrepreneur visa you have? £50 or £200k?

[dancingguy05]

Hi Skyer
I was granted PSW in 2010 at Croydon after deception issue. Fingers cross.
Mine was 50k route.

[skyer]

Hello Dancinguy,

Any update?

How did your appointment?

Thank you.

[dancingguy05]

Hi Everyone and Skyer

It all went well

I was asked to submit my business bank statements, HMRC tax returns of my businesses which was never told by my solicitor. Thankfully I went through few posts and made them ready to be on safe side which weren't in my solicitors bundle.

The case worker seems satisfied with these and was granted ILR.

Thank you all for your help
Best wishes Skyer

[skyer]

Hello Dancingguy,

Big Congratulations and thank you for sharing.

How did you came across deception?

Was it Entrepreneur extension application? Or ILR based on long residence?


Please could you share some details as you have been very lucky to get this even though you also have deception.

[monty87]

I need someone to shed light on this please.

If someone had visa refused in past for using forged document, then switched on another visas and successfully been granted, what effects this can have on ILR application?

Can Home Office go back to past?

Deception in previous applications which has not been discharged in court is very likely to fall under general grounds of refusal for Indefinite Leave to Remain applications.

General Grounds of Refusal Policy Published for Home Office staff on 19 April 2016

When an applicant has used deception either in their current or previous application, for
example, made a false representation, submitted false documents or information or not
disclosed material facts, you:
- must refuse their application under paragraph 322(1A), when deception has been used
in a current application
- should refuse their application under paragraph 322(2),when deception was used in a
previous application
- should refuse their application under paragraph 322(2A), when deception was used in
a current or previous application to get a document from the Secretary of State that
shows the applicant has a right to reside in the UK.

You should refuse leave to remain for these reasons, where there is satisfactory evidence to
show that the applicant or their appointed representative has deliberately provided
representations or documents which they know to be false. You should also refuse leave to
remain if a previous use of deception was unsuccessful. The successful and unsuccessful
use of deception are equally serious in the Immigration Rules.

Before you refuse leave to remain under paragraph 322(1A), 322(2) or 322(2A), you must
first refer your decision to your senior caseworker.

Standard of evidence

To refuse under paragraph 322(1A), 322(2) or 322(2A), you must have positive evidence to
prove that the applicant has lied or submitted a false document. The burden of proof is
balance of probabilities’, which means it is more likely than not that the applicant has made
false representations or given forged documents to get leave.

It is not appropriate to refuse a current application under paragraph 322(1A) simply because
you are not satisfied that the applicant is telling the truth.

To refuse under paragraph 322(2), you must show that:
- the applicant deceived the entry clearance officer, Home Office officer or caseworker
when they made a previous application, and that
- the deception was used to get, or attempt to get, leave to enter or remain

To refuse under paragraph 322(2A), you must show:
- the applicant deceived the entry clearance officer, Home Office officer or caseworker
when they made a previous application
- that deception was used to get, or an attempt to get, a document from the Secretary of
State to show the applicant has a right to reside in the UK

[skyer]

Monty,

Thank you.

You can see in Dancing guy case he even got ILR despite having deception. I have few visa application approval, the link Vinny shared a court case is another example.

What is your view on the cases where Home Office subsequently grants visas despite deception in the past? How can we challenge if all in sudden they bring back that deception?


I am waiting for information from Dancing Guy on his case.

[monty87]

You can see in Dancing guy case he even got ILR despite having deception. I have few visa application approval, the link Vinny shared a court case is another example.

What is your view on the cases where Home Office subsequently grants visas despite deception in the past? How can we challenge if all in sudden they bring back that deception?


I am waiting for information from Dancing Guy on his case.

Thats what I said, unless court rules out no deception in previous applications or Home Office withdraw their deception decision, applicant may not fall for general grounds of refusal for ILR applications.

322(1) – 322(1C) are mandatory refusals whereas 322(2) to 322(12) are discretionary and Home Office has discretionary powers to refuse or grant ILR.

[skyer]

Monty

Court case was dismissed so deception was not removed.

HO refused on the basis of deception in the past and then started granting visas so does it mean deception is removed? If so how? If not why not?

Should there not be expectation for ILR after getting all those visas and thinking deception has been removed as visas are being granted?

These were terms in refusals letters, you can tell what they are and you seem to have good understanding?

245Z, 320(7B), 322 (1A), 322 (1A), 322 (2)

[monty87]

No, deception is not automatically removed. ILR applications will go through previous immigration history checks. Immigration rules states that applicant must not fall for general grounds of refusals for leave to remain applications which I have stated already.

322(1a) and 322(2) is false representation and deception. It will be hard to argue your case if ILR is refused because home office has refused your leave to remain application previously on deception following their standard evidence policy.

[skyer]

Monty,

Thank you. HO refused my application because of deception but they then have been granting visas even once I ticked Yes to deception still they granted visa. Later I ticked No to deception as assumed it is clear as in last application they granted me leave when ticked Yes to deception so when later I ticked No they still granted visas.

Please tell me what I can do? How I can fight and challenge?

Please advise something which I can use to get ILR?

Thank you again for your time.

[skyer]

Dear Moderators and members,

I hope you can help in this very difficult time of life. I desperately need your views, advice.

I was refused on deception in 2010 . I went for appeal up to Court of Appeal and it was dismissed as evidence for deception was too strong.

Following that I applied several visas which were granted without refusal, in first one I even ticked Yes to deception, visa granted. Following that I was advised by solicitors that it cannot be possible that with deception you get a PBS visa. So later I started ticking No to deception as believe it was cleared now based on outcome of previous application, still got visas.

Now worried about ILR application based on Long Residence due to past deception.

1-Below is text from Home Office refusal letter, I have highlighted below text in Red, it does not say about Leave to Remain. I find some hope with this for my future ILR application, please can you advise?

2-It further says below listed bans will apply to me when I leave the UK, I had valid leave for all those years and never asked to leave, does it mean ban does not apply to me?

3-Finally, on end it says I should regularize my stay when current leave expires which I have been doing, HO letter says 10 years ban will apply if they have to remove me from UK which never happened as I regularized my stay in UK following deception. Does this mean ban does not apply to me?

4-Following deception, HO granted all visas that I applied for, which support above points, what are your thoughts?


For the above reasons, I am satisfied that you have used deception in this application.
This means any future applications for Entry Clearance or Leave to Enter the United Kingdom will be refused under Paragraph 320 (7B) of the immigration rules unless it would breach your rights under the Human Rights Act 1998 or the Refugee Convention) for the following period starting on the date on which you leave the United Kingdom following this refusal:
• One Year if you leave voluntarily at your expense
• 5 Years if you leave at Government expense
• Ten Years if we remove or deport you

Two paragraphs quoted in letter 322 (1A) and 320 (7B)
There is also reference of this 245Z(d).

In the same letter it says I still have valid visa so at the end I should regularize my stay or leave the country at my own expense. If we have to remove you then any application for Entry Clearance or Leave to Enter that you make will be refused for 10 years under immigration rules subject to the exceptions listed in this letter.


Thank you very much for your time and assistance.

[skyer]

Any input, advice on this please?

Thank you.

[skyer]

Going through immigration rules, unable to understand difference between Entry Clearance and Leave to Enter, please could someone interpret, explain the difference as what is Leave to Enter and what is Entry Clearance?

I thought they both were same but don't think they are.

Refusal of entry clearance or leave to enter the United Kingdom


https://www.gov.uk/guidance/immigration ... 9clearance

Thank you.

[skyer]

Dear Moderators and members,

I hope you can help in this very difficult time of life. I desperately need your views, advice.

I was refused on deception in 2010 . I went for appeal up to Court of Appeal and it was dismissed as evidence for deception was too strong.

Following that I applied several visas which were granted without refusal, in first one I even ticked Yes to deception, visa granted. Following that I was advised by solicitors that it cannot be possible that with deception you get a PBS visa. So later I started ticking No to deception as believe it was cleared now based on outcome of previous application, still got visas.

Now worried about ILR application based on Long Residence due to past deception.

1-Below is text from Home Office refusal letter, I have highlighted below text in Red, it does not say about Leave to Remain. I find some hope with this for my future ILR application, please can you advise?

2-It further says below listed bans will apply to me when I leave the UK, I had valid leave for all those years and never asked to leave, does it mean ban does not apply to me?

3-Finally, on end it says I should regularize my stay when current leave expires which I have been doing, HO letter says 10 years ban will apply if they have to remove me from UK which never happened as I regularized my stay in UK following deception. Does this mean ban does not apply to me?

4-Following deception, HO granted all visas that I applied for, which support above points, what are your thoughts?


For the above reasons, I am satisfied that you have used deception in this application.
This means any future applications for Entry Clearance or Leave to Enter the United Kingdom will be refused under Paragraph 320 (7B) of the immigration rules unless it would breach your rights under the Human Rights Act 1998 or the Refugee Convention) for the following period starting on the date on which you leave the United Kingdom following this refusal:
• One Year if you leave voluntarily at your expense
• 5 Years if you leave at Government expense
• Ten Years if we remove or deport you

Two paragraphs quoted in letter 322 (1A) and 320 (7B)
There is also reference of this 245Z(d).

In the same letter it says I still have valid visa so at the end I should regularize my stay or leave the country at my own expense. If we have to remove you then any application for Entry Clearance or Leave to Enter that you make will be refused for 10 years under immigration rules subject to the exceptions listed in this letter.


Thank you very much for your time and assistance.

Please could anyone advise on above points?

[vinny]

Going through immigration rules, unable to understand difference between Entry Clearance and Leave to Enter, please could someone interpret, explain the difference as what is Leave to Enter and what is Entry Clearance?

I thought they both were same but don't think they are.

Refusal of entry clearance or leave to enter the United Kingdom


https://www.gov.uk/guidance/immigration ... 9clearance

Thank you.

Simply,"Leave to enter" is granted to applicants from outside the UK, by an ECO (Entry Clearance Officer) issuing an entry clearance/visa or by an IO (Immigration Officer) at a port of entry. "Leave to remain" is granted to applicants inside the UK.

[skyer]

Vinny,

Thank you for clarifying on this and once again helping here.

Please could you share your views on below couple of points:

1-As I declared deception, ticked Yes, Home Office still granted visa, is 320 (7B) removed and no longer applies to me according to below?

Paragraph 320(7B) does not apply, page 37, General Grounds for refusal:

after a person has breached UK immigration laws, the Home Office have given a visa or leave to enter or remain in the knowledge of that breach – for example, a student who has overstayed but was granted leave to enter following an out of time application



https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... 20#header4

2-


The refusal letter states the immigrations rules 320 7b,Two paragraphs quoted in letter 322 (1A) and 320 (7B),there is also reference of this 245Z(d).

While searching on the web I have found in

"IMMIGRATION RULES PART-9: GROUNDS FOR REFUSAL

General grounds for the refusal of entry clearance, leave to enter or variation of leave to enter or remain in the United Kingdom (paragraphs A320 to 324)

REFUSAL OF ENTRY CLEARANCE OR LEAVE TO ENTER THE UK
applicable only for IMMIGRATION RULES 320

REFUSAL OF LEAVE TO REMAIN, VARIATION OF LEAVE TO ENTER OR REMAIN OR CURTAILMENT OF LEAVE
applicable only for IMMIGRATION RULES 322".

In my case I have refusal under 320 7b (false document used, further visa applications will be refused for ten years) that means this will not effect my ILR LR application under the general grounds of refusal, where in the guidance of general grounds of refusal for ILR did not mentioned about the 320 at all. It is all about 322.

can anyone please advise on this?