SALA OVERTURNED BY COURT OF APPEAL NO LONGER GOOD LAW

[Obie]

There are many genuine couples aswell that are called scam.

I know a couple with a beautiful daughter. At the time of the application they had just lost their second child through still birth. Notwithstanding that, the fine couple were accuses of being in a marriage of convenience.

[avjones]

Sadly, I've come across that too. In fact, I've even heard the phrase "a child of convenience" used. Which is just disgusting.

[mohsin1]

Frank001 i have efm my unlce supporting me with that case we fought with HO and when the times come to give him my All the remaing dcoumnets actuslly first i won FTT tthen set aside from UP then they sent me again to FTT WHwhic is denovo hearing my denovo hearing was july 2016 unfortunalty my uncle had not on this country due to his operation judge postpone my denovo hearing now my next date was coming november..but suddenly no right of appeal last attemp from FTT judge ask HO to if they need any other docmunets then tell him to bring on next hearing or his documnets are complte? then HO said we dont need more documents because his documnets are now been complted both judge and HO agreed to postone hesring..
but now there is no right of appeal and my all documnets are compte i dont know what is the best option for me to do either go for fresh appliction or JR.

[Frank001]

Sala case comes in different shapes and size.

It all depends on the case.

My Upper Tribunal was relationship of convenience , which the UT said was non-sense, as the evidence does not support the FTT decision to side with the Home Office.

It depends on the nature of your case. If it was lack of treaty rights or supporting documents, then perhaps a new application.

Hi Obie today I got appeal result, it is dismissed because of salary. Given right to appeal UTT. Go for it or make fresh application?
One point is this

" This matter was always going to have to go back to the respondent for the exercise under Regulation 17(4) to be performed. Under the new dispensation, the only route by which this can happen is through the appellant making a fresh application. If I had jurisdiction to do so, I would find the appellant and the sponsor to be credible witnesses whose account of a genuine and durable relationship is supported by a mass of documentary evidence, much of it new from the respondent's perspective. The asserted discrepancies largely melt away when considered in the context of the interviews as a whole and/or in the context of the surrounding evidence, and any that remain are not of such import or significance as to sustain the suspicion that the relationship is a sham"

What does it mean? Make fresh applications or UTT

[Frank001]

Sala case comes in different shapes and size.

It all depends on the case.

My Upper Tribunal was relationship of convenience , which the UT said was non-sense, as the evidence does not support the FTT decision to side with the Home Office.

It depends on the nature of your case. If it was lack of treaty rights or supporting documents, then perhaps a new application.

Hi Obie today I got appeal result, it is dismissed because of sala


. Given right to appeal UTT. Go for it or make fresh application?
One point is this

" This matter was always going to have to go back to the respondent for the exercise under Regulation 17(4) to be performed. Under the new dispensation, the only route by which this can happen is through the appellant making a fresh application. If I had jurisdiction to do so, I would find the appellant and the sponsor to be credible witnesses whose account of a genuine and durable relationship is supported by a mass of documentary evidence, much of it new from the respondent's perspective. The asserted discrepancies largely melt away when considered in the context of the interviews as a whole and/or in the context of the surrounding evidence, and any that remain are not of such import or significance as to sustain the suspicion that the relationship is a sham"

What does it mean? Make fresh applications or UTT

[Obie]

Why did judge complain about salary?

[Frank001]

Why did judge complain about salary?

Hi Obie sorry it was auto correct salary=sala

[Obie]

What does your lawyer suggest?

[Frank001]

What does your lawyer suggest?

Except sala one point was this

. So sitting as a judge of the First-tier Tribunal I am constrained to find that the appellant does not have a valid right of appeal. 17. This matter was always going to have to go back to the respondent for the exercise under Regulation 17(4) to be performed. Under the new dispensation, the only route by which this can happen is through the appellant making a fresh application. If I had jurisdiction to do so, I would find the appellant and the sponsor to be credible witnesses whose account of a genuine and durable relationship is supported by a mass of documentary evidence, much of it new from the respondent's perspective. The asserted discrepancies largely melt away when considered in the context of the interviews as a whole and/or in the context of the surrounding evidence, and any that remain are not of such import or significance as to sustain the suspicion that the relationship is a sham.

[Obie]

You were giving the right of appeal to the Upper Tribunal.

[Frank001]

You were giving the right of appeal to the Upper Tribunal.

Yes . And last paragraph from judge I wrote it already in my last message. So what do u think about that? on paragraph he has mentioned about fresh application, I didn't understand much.

[avjones]

I wouldn't want to give any definite view without seeing the whole case in context.

But it looks as if you had a nice judge, who made comments which would certainly help in any fresh application.

[Frank001]

I wouldn't want to give any definite view without seeing the whole case in context.

But it looks as if you had a nice judge, who made comments which would certainly help in any fresh application.

Except that comment rest of them was only about sala that he need to follow. I have given as much as documents I could give.but don't understand one thing that if I don't have appeal right how I can win /appeal from UT. Which one is more better option fresh applications /UT

[Obie]

Quite a good finding, similar to mind.

I spoke to a senior presenting officer, who is a good friend of man.

He told me that in case where a court made a positive finding, the Secretary of State will object in future proceeding to it being used as the tribunal who made it, did not have jurisdictions. He said the Secretary of state will not seek to use finding to refuse in cases were an appellants appeal was dismissed.

He has a point, as well as you. I will see how Home office address the point of postive finding in their response to my PAP.

A friend of mine received a response to his today, was told they will consider taking account of the views expressed within 2 months.

[avjones]

He told me that in case where a court made a positive finding, the Secretary of State will object in future proceeding to it being used as the tribunal who made it, did not have jurisdictions. He said the Secretary of state will not seek to use finding to refuse in cases were an appellants appeal was dismissed.

He has a point, as well as you. I will see how Home office address the point of postive finding in their response to my PAP.

I think that would be quite hard to justify as a public authority. Can't imagine wanting to make that argument myself!

I think it would be hard for the SSHD to completely ignore it, jurisdiction or otherwise.

I've had similar ETS-style cases which have sneaked into the FTT where they shouldn't have done, and had positive findings of fact with no jurisdiction. That can be used as a (good) argument against out-of-country-only appeal rights against a s10 decision.

[Obie]

It may be persuasive, but clearly not binding. I think Sala was decided poorly and is not good law. Assuming it was correctly decided, then the judge has no jurisdiction , any comments made could be treated as obiter, as the primary issue was whether or not their was jurisdiction.

Assuming a judge without jurisdiction made a finding which was clearly wrong and unfavourable to the Secretary of state, in circumstances where she will have no basis to challenge it.

Justice cannot require that such finding be binding on her, in circumstances where she had no basis for challenging them due to the jurisdiction issue.

I don't tend to agree with presenting officers a lot, but is one of the fairest of them, I respect him immensely and when my grounds are made up, he always concede before we go in for a hearing.

[avjones]

I don't think they are completely binding, but nor do I think they are irrelevant. We'll have to wait and see, I suppose.

Some of the Senior HOPOs are extremely pleasant and reasonable people, I agree.

[Obie]

I personally feel the findings will be beneficial to OP, if he threatens the Home Office to reconsider the present application and refusal, than a new application.

I have had terrible experience of Home Office, especially in OFM cases, they always find new reasons to refuse everytime.

[avjones]

I agree with you on both points.

[mohsin1]

hi obie if judge give postive finding did you know anyone who already have postive finding reciently? and home office reconsidering his case and got any decision?
kindly update me because my hesring is on after 2 weeks.

[Obie]

hi obie if judge give postive finding did you know anyone who already have postive finding reciently? and home office reconsidering his case and got any decision?
kindly update me because my hesring is on after 2 weeks.

I don't knw anyone as the decision of Sala came out about a month ago,,so it is unlikely that decisions would have been made on affected applicants or appellant.

[avjones]

same here, I'm not aware of any, and it is a bit to soon to be sure

[Obie]

Just to update ..

Over the past few days an issue arose as to whether or not there was a jurisdiction for the Upper Tribunal to look at my application for permission to appeal to the Court of Appeal.

I submitted argument that the power exist, and today I gathered that it has been recorded as a lawful application for permission to appeal.

Also gathered from a senior HOPO, that the Home Office have recorded on their system that they will reconsider case having regards to the views expressed by the UT withing 8 weeks, subject to any further evidence they will require being submitted.

So all in all, things seem to be shaping for the best. One can only hope that they will start acting in a pragmatic manner and prevent further stress and waste of money for poor applicant and appellant.

Will still try and pursue Sala even if he succeeds. Will see if COA will enteretain it, giving the fact that it is an issue of general importance.

[avjones]

Thanks for the update

[avjones]

Quite possible the Home Office will appeal to the Upper Tribunal and say no jurisdiction.