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ILR for child after renew of non EEA family member refused

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happy4ever
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ILR for child after renew of non EEA family member refused

Post by happy4ever » Fri Sep 23, 2016 3:35 pm

My Son is 9 years old held a 5 year noon EEA family member visa. Before expiring I've tried to renew but it was denied on basis that now, me (his mother) became a British Citizen. Therefore UK Law applies.

Now I'd like to apply for ILR but the Home Office has kept his passport.

My son has lived here for 7 years. The whole family has got British citizenship apart from him.

Please help. Does he need a visa before applying for ILR? please?

noajthan
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Re: ILR for child after renew of non EEA family member refus

Post by noajthan » Fri Sep 23, 2016 3:56 pm

happy4ever wrote:My Son is 9 years old held a 5 year noon EEA family member visa. Before expiring I've tried to renew but it was denied on basis that now, me (his mother) became a British Citizen. Therefore UK Law applies.

Now I'd like to apply for ILR but the Home Office has kept his passport.

My son has lived here for 7 years. The whole family has got British citizenship apart from him.

Please help. Does he need a visa before applying for ILR? please?
Most unfortunate.

Being a BC now trumps any EEA nationality in UK and that's even before Brexit.

How long have you been naturalised?
Had your son been in UK with you for 5 years before you naturalised?

What is nationality of father?
- is he/was he in UK and a Union citizen/qualified person? (before naturalising?).
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

happy4ever
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Re: ILR for child after renew of non EEA family member refus

Post by happy4ever » Fri Sep 23, 2016 5:22 pm

thank you for your replay here are more information.

I've been naturalised for 3 years.
No, by the time I naturalised my son had been here for 4 years on noon EEA family member visa.
Also I've applied for his British Citizenship together with mine, but his was denied because he was out of the country at the time of the application.

He has no father on his birth certificate so his father nationality wouldn't make any difference.

Now do you think I can apply for a ILR and been successful?

noajthan
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Re: ILR for child after renew of non EEA family member refus

Post by noajthan » Fri Sep 23, 2016 5:37 pm

happy4ever wrote:thank you for your replay here are more information.

I've been naturalised for 3 years.
No, by the time I naturalised my son had been here for 4 years on noon EEA family member visa.
Also I've applied for his British Citizenship together with mine, but his was denied because he was out of the country at the time of the application.

He has no father on his birth certificate so his father nationality wouldn't make any difference.

Now do you think I can apply for a ILR and been successful?
Son will need to have been in UK on UK visa (5 years) before he can get ILR.
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

happy4ever
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Re: ILR for child after renew of non EEA family member refus

Post by happy4ever » Fri Sep 23, 2016 5:46 pm

noajthan wrote:
happy4ever wrote:thank you for your replay here are more information.

I've been naturalised for 3 years.
No, by the time I naturalised my son had been here for 4 years on noon EEA family member visa.
Also I've applied for his British Citizenship together with mine, but his was denied because he was out of the country at the time of the application.

He has no father on his birth certificate so his father nationality wouldn't make any difference.

Now do you think I can apply for a ILR and been successful?
Son will need to have been in UK on UK visa (5 years) before he can get ILR.
So do you know what visa should I apply for him please?

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Re: ILR for child after renew of non EEA family member refus

Post by noajthan » Fri Sep 23, 2016 7:17 pm

All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

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Re: ILR for child after renew of non EEA family member refus

Post by Richard W » Sat Sep 24, 2016 1:47 am

happy4ever wrote:My Son is 9 years old held a 5 year noon EEA family member visa. Before expiring I've tried to renew but it was denied on basis that now, me (his mother) became a British Citizen. Therefore UK Law applies.
<snip>
My son has lived here for 7 years. The whole family has got British citizenship apart from him.
Does anyone in the family still have an EEA nationality? If, on 16 October 2012, your son had a residence card, or had applied for one that he ultimately received, or had arrived in the UK using a 'family permit', and the EEA national whose family member he was is still alive and has remained an EEA national, then EEA free movement law still applies.

Unless you were that national, your becoming British should have had no effect on your son's application for a new residence card.

The relevant law, sometimes known as the 'McCarthy Transitional Arrangement', is Schedule 3 of the Immigration (European Economic Area) (Amendment) Regulations 2012, and confirmation that the law applies when an EEA national subsequently becomes British is identified in one of my posts.

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Re: ILR for child after renew of non EEA family member refus

Post by noajthan » Sat Sep 24, 2016 10:29 am

Richard W wrote:
happy4ever wrote:My Son is 9 years old held a 5 year noon EEA family member visa. Before expiring I've tried to renew but it was denied on basis that now, me (his mother) became a British Citizen. Therefore UK Law applies.
<snip>
My son has lived here for 7 years. The whole family has got British citizenship apart from him.
Does anyone in the family still have an EEA nationality? If, on 16 October 2012, your son had a residence card, or had applied for one that he ultimately received, or had arrived in the UK using a 'family permit', and the EEA national whose family member he was is still alive and has remained an EEA national, then EEA free movement law still applies.

Unless you were that national, your becoming British should have had no effect on your son's application for a new residence card.

...
Unfortunately...
  • No father.
    The whole family has got British citizenship apart from son;
    No mention of child having RC as EFM of anyone else (why would they have one);
McCarthy principles well established in forum over many moons.
It may be the case that it applies if the expiry of previous RC is immaterial.

You may be the first example of mother/son in this position (rather than spouses).
You will still have a fight on your hands so prepare for that.
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

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Re: ILR for child after renew of non EEA family member refus

Post by Richard W » Sat Sep 24, 2016 3:43 pm

noajthan wrote:
Richard W wrote: ....
Unless you were that national, your becoming British should have had no effect on your son's application for a new residence card.

...
Unfortunately...
  • No father.
    The whole family has got British citizenship apart from son;
    No mention of child having RC as EFM of anyone else (why would they have one);
The son had a "non-EEA family member visa" which seems to have recently expired. He holds a passport. Now, while it is possible that the mother had been an EEA dual national (but not British) but had not transmitted her EEA nationality to her son, I was wondering if he had been sponsored by a stepfather.

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Re: ILR for child after renew of non EEA family member refus

Post by happy4ever » Sat Sep 24, 2016 6:42 pm

Richard W wrote:
noajthan wrote:
Richard W wrote: ....
Unless you were that national, your becoming British should have had no effect on your son's application for a new residence card.

...
Unfortunately...
  • No father.
    The whole family has got British citizenship apart from son;
    No mention of child having RC as EFM of anyone else (why would they have one);
The son had a "non-EEA family member visa" which seems to have recently expired. He holds a passport. Now, while it is possible that the mother had been an EEA dual national (but not British) but had not transmitted her EEA nationality to her son, I was wondering if he had been sponsored by a stepfather.
Yes my son had a non EEA family member visa which expired. No I dont hold an EEA nationality. When I applied for my son's visa I was holding a PR visa at the time (after my divorce).

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Re: ILR for child after renew of non EEA family member refus

Post by noajthan » Sat Sep 24, 2016 6:48 pm

happy4ever wrote:Yes my son had a non EEA family member visa which expired. No I dont hold an EEA nationality. When I applied for my son's visa I was holding a PR visa at the time (after my divorce).
What was nationality of your joint sponsor? (ex-husband? / step-father?)
Was son dependent on this person when son's original RC was issued?

What is relation/connection of son to this person now?
What is nationality/immigration status and location of this person now?
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

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Re: ILR for child after renew of non EEA family member refus

Post by happy4ever » Sat Sep 24, 2016 7:05 pm

noajthan wrote:
happy4ever wrote:Yes my son had a non EEA family member visa which expired. No I dont hold an EEA nationality. When I applied for my son's visa I was holding a PR visa at the time (after my divorce).
What was nationality of your joint sponsor? (ex-husband? / step-father?)
Was son dependent on this person when son's original RC was issued?

What is relation/connection of son to this person now?
What is nationality/immigration status and location of this person now?
There was never a joint sponsor it was just me (mother) I acquitted my PR after my divorce. The time I've applied for my son non EEA family member visa.

After a divorce my ex nationality or his where abouts changes nothing.

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Re: ILR for child after renew of non EEA family member refus

Post by noajthan » Sat Sep 24, 2016 7:10 pm

happy4ever wrote:There was never a joint sponsor it was just me (mother) I acquitted my PR after my divorce. The time I've applied for my son non EEA family member visa.

After a divorce my ex nationality or his where abouts changes nothing.
So where is the Union citizen in all of this? There must have been one at some time.
The point is, if there is a Union citizen and he has any relationship to son then that's your last chance for son on EU route.

Otherwise you're back to switching son to UK visa route. Either from in-country or from some home country.
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

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Re: ILR for child after renew of non EEA family member refus

Post by happy4ever » Sat Sep 24, 2016 7:54 pm

noajthan wrote:
happy4ever wrote:There was never a joint sponsor it was just me (mother) I acquitted my PR after my divorce. The time I've applied for my son non EEA family member visa.

After a divorce my ex nationality or his where abouts changes nothing.
So where is the Union citizen in all of this? There must have been one at some time.
The point is, if there is a Union citizen and he has any relationship to son then that's your last chance for son on EU route.

Otherwise you're back to switching son to UK visa route. Either from in-country or from some home country.
My ex husband was EEA citizen which I've divorced more than 10 years ago. Like I mention before my son hasn't got a father on his birth certificate.
I remarried a British citizen which my other children are all British already.

Yes, I'm already aware that I need to apply under UK law. I was just wondering if I could apply for ILR or I have to start for a normal 2.5 years visa?

thanks

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Re: ILR for child after renew of non EEA family member refus

Post by Richard W » Sat Sep 24, 2016 10:06 pm

happy4ever wrote:There was never a joint sponsor it was just me (mother) I acquitted my PR after my divorce. The time I've applied for my son non EEA family member visa.
On what basis did you acquire your PR? Was it solely on the basis of your first husband being a qualified person, or was it partly on the basis of your being like a qualified person? For example, you may have got PR by working after the divorce.

On what basis was your son allowed into the UK seven years ago? If I understand you correctly, you had no evidence of PR at the time. Did he have a 'family permit'? Did he have a settlement visa? Did he have some other type of visa? Was he allowed in because the immigration office thought you were still married to your first husband?

Now, if your son had been born before your divorce, and living in the UK at the time, he would have had a 'retained right of residence', and so would have been allowed to enter without any stamp in his passport. However, I'm wondering if he might have been treated that way for some reason. If he did have a retained right of residence, and you have remained a 'worker' since the divorce, he may well have achieved PR.

Why did you think your son was entitled to renew his residence card? A non-EEA national's having permanent residence does not entitle his family members to reside in the UK.

If you must use the UK immigration route, the only way within the rules I can see for your son to stay in the UK requires him to temporarily leave the UK. From abroad, he can then apply for indefinite leave to enter (ILE) - this gives him ILR as soon as he is admitted to the UK.

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Re: ILR for child after renew of non EEA family member refus

Post by happy4ever » Sat Sep 24, 2016 11:54 pm

Richard W wrote:
happy4ever wrote:There was never a joint sponsor it was just me (mother) I acquitted my PR after my divorce. The time I've applied for my son non EEA family member visa.
On what basis did you acquire your PR? Was it solely on the basis of your first husband being a qualified person, or was it partly on the basis of your being like a qualified person? For example, you may have got PR by working after the divorce.

On what basis was your son allowed into the UK seven years ago? If I understand you correctly, you had no evidence of PR at the time. Did he have a 'family permit'? Did he have a settlement visa? Did he have some other type of visa? Was he allowed in because the immigration office thought you were still married to your first husband?

Now, if your son had been born before your divorce, and living in the UK at the time, he would have had a 'retained right of residence', and so would have been allowed to enter without any stamp in his passport. However, I'm wondering if he might have been treated that way for some reason. If he did have a retained right of residence, and you have remained a 'worker' since the divorce, he may well have achieved PR.

Why did you think your son was entitled to renew his residence card? A non-EEA national's having permanent residence does not entitle his family members to reside in the UK.

If you must use the UK immigration route, the only way within the rules I can see for your son to stay in the UK requires him to temporarily leave the UK. From abroad, he can then apply for indefinite leave to enter (ILE) - this gives him ILR as soon as he is admitted to the UK.
Well soon after I was married with ex I was on non EEA family member, then divorced, then right of residency, then I got my PR. I didnt know that my PR couldnt not pass to my son at all. Even though the Home Office issued him a non EEA family member visa. My son was born in 2006 and I got divorced in 2008, but by that time me and my ex were separated and my son stayed with my mom back home until I sorted this situation out.

My son entered UK when he was 2 years old in 2009 on a tourist visa. Unfortunately, after his RC visa, in 2012 he was out of the country for 13 months... where they declined his British citizenship. Also the possibility for a PR was nil.

Instead I thought I could renew his non EEA family member visa, but again the Home Office declined that because I became a British Citizen.

I can not take him out of the country, because the HO is holding his passport and also because of my son's school, etc.

I really dont know what to do next!

My son has been here most of his life,

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Re: ILR for child after renew of non EEA family member refus

Post by noajthan » Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:06 am

Unclear how son was issued with RC in the first place.
Its unclear who son's EEA sponsor was as you were already divorced when son came to UK.
Someone with ROR (eg you) retains residence on a personal basis. They cannot sponsor other family members.

In any case a RC is not a visa.
It seems likely son's RC was issued in error and son has been an overstayer since the initial visit visa expired.

Its unclear how you could apply with any real confidence to register son as a citizen without him having settled status, as for a foreign-born child, registration is at discretion of Home Secretary under s 3(1) of BNA;
child's future is expected to be in UK and settled status is normally required.
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

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Re: ILR for child after renew of non EEA family member refus

Post by happy4ever » Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:12 am

noajthan wrote:Unclear how son was issued with RC in the first place.
Its unclear who son's EEA sponsor was as you were already divorced when son came to UK.
Someone with ROR (eg you) retains residence on a personal basis. They cannot sponsor other family members.

In any case a RC is not a visa.
It seems likely son's RC was issued in error and son has been an overstayer since the initial visit visa expired.

It's unclear how you could apply with any real confidence to register son as a citizen without him having settled status, as for a foreign-born child, registration is at discretion of Home Secretary under s 3(1) of BNA;
child's future is expected to be in UK and settled status is normally required.
I've applied to renew his non EEA family member which was denied. It took 6 months to get a response, I entered with a appeal and just lost his appeal about 2 weeks ago.

So yes is overstaying for 2 weeks!

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Re: ILR for child after renew of non EEA family member refus

Post by noajthan » Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:34 am

happy4ever wrote:I've applied to renew his non EEA family member which was denied. It took 6 months to get a response, I entered with a appeal and just lost his appeal about 2 weeks ago.

So yes is overstaying for 2 weeks!
Did question of first RC come up?
Its hard to see on what basis it was issued to start son off on EU migration route.
Son may not have had any leave since visit visa expired.
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

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Re: ILR for child after renew of non EEA family member refus

Post by happy4ever » Sun Sep 25, 2016 1:19 am

noajthan wrote:
happy4ever wrote:I've applied to renew his non EEA family member which was denied. It took 6 months to get a response, I entered with a appeal and just lost his appeal about 2 weeks ago.

So yes is overstaying for 2 weeks!
Did question of first RC come up?
Its hard to see on what basis it was issued to start son off on EU migration route.
Son may not have had any leave since visit visa expired.
No. Not at all. My son did not leave as he is back to school.

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Re: ILR for child after renew of non EEA family member refus

Post by Richard W » Sun Sep 25, 2016 4:12 am

noajthan wrote:Unclear how son was issued with RC in the first place.
Its unclear who son's EEA sponsor was as you were already divorced when son came to UK.
Someone with ROR (eg you) retains residence on a personal basis. They cannot sponsor other family members.
It seems as though someone were following free-movement directive, Directive 2004/38/EC, rather than the (British) EEA Regulations! The son was born a family member of the OP's first husband, and all that's stopped him retaining a right of residence is that he wasn't residing in the UK when the divorce occurred (Regulation 10(5)(b)). Regulation 10(5)(b) has to be deduced from the general tenor of the directive; the requirement is not there explicitly in the directive (and I'm not sure it's there at all).

Alternatively, the caseworker simply didn't notice that the son was not resident at the time of the divorce. The current instructions (p23 of https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... _clean.pdf) call for evidence of the applicant's "residence in the UK for at least one year during the marriage". However, a whole year's residence is only required for the former spouse; the EEA Regulations do not require it for the former spouse's children.

The other issue is the son's paternity in law.

If we can trust the OP's arithmetic, the son was born on or after 1 July 2006. Consequently, if the OP's first husband had become British by the time the son was born, the son would be British. The identity of the biological father is irrelevant.

There is the possibility that in general law the son might be the first husband's, whatever the biological truth of the matter. (Foreign law may determine the legal position.) In that case, ROR might not be relevant; instead the first husband's status as a qualified person or permanent resident would be. By the Diatta judgement, it would be enough that legal father and son reside in the same member state. However, a birth certificate identifying the relevant parent (the first husband, in this case) is now required, and there is no such document.

Turning to the rejected 'renewal', I'm wondering if the caseworker applied the RoR criteria but misapplied Regulation 10(6). The evidence to be checked is specified as being that for a qualified person, but the regulations do not prohibit that person from being British. I'm not sure if it is worth reapplying claiming that the McCarthy traditional arrangement would apply if it were relevant that the the OP is now British, but adding that is not relevant as the OP is claiming to be a worker (or self-sufficient, or whatever), and that being British is irrelevant to whether one is such . The obvious problem is that the son does not meet the requirements of the British EEA Regulations as they stand, and any (permanent) residence card obtained now may be revoked in the future when it is realised that Regulation 10(5)(b) is not satisfied. There may also be a problem with any declarations required by the application form.

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Re: ILR for child after renew of non EEA family member refus

Post by Richard W » Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:22 pm

happy4ever wrote:No. Not at all. My son did not leave as he is back to school.
English is confusing here. The noun leave can also mean 'permission', and in this context it refers to permission to remain or permission to enter. EU immigration law generally works in terms of rights, while British immigration law generally works in terms of permissions.

If the relevant parts of the EEA Regulations do not disagree with EU law, your son's overstaying once he reaches the age of 10 may cause a problem later when he attempts to acquire British nationality.

It would be interesting to see copies of the initial refusal and the judgement in your son's case (remove names from the copies). I think, however, that there is the fundamental problem that he did not enter the UK until the divorce was finalised (i.e. decree absolute), so our identifying any faults in the appeal or judgement may not help.

I may have some good news. Because your son entered the UK on a tourist visa, he has had limited leave to remain in the UK, and appears to qualify for an application from within the UK for indefinite leave to remain under Immigration Rule 298 (Click on the section header 'Children' to see the rule.) However, I am not sure what effect the six (or is it two and a bit?) year overstay will have on the application, which would not be under Appendix FM. Can someone please advise?

There might seem to be the strong probability of getting limited leave to remain under the 7-year rule (Immigration Rule 276ADE(1)(iv). However, the 13-month absence in 2012 appears to disqualify him.

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Re: ILR for child after renew of non EEA family member refus

Post by noajthan » Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:44 pm

The way ahead is for OP to seek competent legal advice.
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

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Re: ILR for child after renew of non EEA family member refus

Post by Obie » Mon Sep 26, 2016 8:53 pm

noajthan wrote:Unclear how son was issued with RC in the first place.
Its unclear who son's EEA sponsor was as you were already divorced when son came to UK.
Someone with ROR (eg you) retains residence on a personal basis. They cannot sponsor other family members.
Regulation 10 can be availed by family member of a Non EEA national who qualifies for residence under Regulation 10.
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