Tier 1 Ent Ext - Refused, AR Refused and JR

[s_r_san]

Unfortunately home office refused my visa with excuse that my name doesn't appear on the accounts and also they said that it wasn't mentioned that capital was injected into the business by myself . My accountant clearly mentioned my name on the accounts and on capital ledger account.

Since shareholder is not mentioned in accounts as per current accounting practice or requirements for SME
my accountant did not mention my name in accounts as shareholder, but did as director

You both failed to read the guide and the rules and submit exactly what they need. I have said it many many times here that what is acceptable in the world of business as invested will NOT be necessarily enough for HO. Your name MUST appear opposite of the invested amount in the accounts, usually in your accounts notes.

You need to follow the immigration rules meticulously and provide the exact evidence required. You should be able to apply for a new application with correct documents with the required information

Are there possibilities for fresh application? more than 28 days from the expiry of the previous visa and HO keeps the documents

[s_r_san]

Are there possibilities for fresh application? more than 28 days from the expiry of the previous visa and HO keeps the documents

Yes, but it is 28 days from when your section 3C ends. That is if you apply for AR and get rejected or if you choose to not apply for AR within 14 days. Your documents should be returned to you after the AR refusal or after 14 days if you do not apply for AR.

Hi Zimba, Thanks for your points

I have another issue (?)
I have applied for visa after my visa expires (my visa was finished on 07/06/2016 and I applied on 09/06/2016)
Still I have opportunity for fresh application ?

Thanks

[zimba]

I am afraid not, as you have been an over stayer since your visa expired

[s_r_san]

I am afraid not, as you have been an over stayer since your visa expired

Ah ok, Thanks

Then I have only option to go for AR ..
If AR is refused, what is the next option ? Judicial review ena ?

IF JR also refused, what is the next option I have ?

Thanks

[zimba]

You can go for AR and then JR but the chances of getting any positive outcome is slim

[s_r_san]

hi,
my visa is also refused because of my name is not in accounts as a shareholder, all other points are awarded, so is there any chance so I can win the case in JR? thanks[/quote]

1. Did your accountant mention in his/her letter that you have invested 50k into your company ?

My accountant has mentioned that I have invested 50K into my company as share capital (i.e.8+2=10)
Same accountant (as per HO) will have to mention my name as shareholder in accounts (i.e.7+3=10)
I do not see any difference in outcome (8+2=10=7+3)
Because same accountant will certify/report both and only format/contents can be varied

Please elaborate this point in legal term

2. Another point - Accounts of the company are given
The name of the shareholder is missing in the accounts
Then it can be considered as missing information

So evidential flexibility should be applied ena (??)

Elias LJ held:
The exceptions in the evidential flexibility policy were “much broader” than the rules and that the policy
states that it applies “when an application has missing evidence or there is a minor error on an
application”.

3. I see another point but I do not know how to elaborate this point as an argument

in guidance under para 138(5), it was mentioned as follows

(5) The accounts must clearly show the name of the accountant, the date the accounts
were produced, and how much you have invested in the business. The accounts must be
prepared and signed off by the accountant in accordance with statutory requirements.

In 1st sentence, HO asks to put our name as shareholder. but in the 2nd sentence they mentioned that accounts should be prepared and signed as per statutory requirements.

As per statutory requirements, there is no need to put shareholder's name.
And standard Accounts format does not have space to put shareholder name

Any valid point in my claim???
...............................................................................
In my case, I have applied for AR with point 2 and point 1
Waiting for Reponses from HO

And talking to lawyers to find claims to succeed the case if it goes to next level

[b2buk]

ok, yes my accountant had submitted the letter as well, my AR is refused and HO is not willing to admit that it is a missing information, they said you haven't submitted the specified document. so I am going for JR.

[noajthan]

To avoid confusion & jumbled responses, I have moved your question to its own thread (this one).

Posts merged.

No need for multiple posts.

[s_r_san]

ok, yes my accountant had submitted the letter as well, my AR is refused and HO is not willing to admit that it is a missing information, they said you haven't submitted the specified document. so I am going for JR.

Hi
Thanks for your post

Did your accountant mention you as shareholder in that Accountant letter ?

[zimba]

The accountant letter has no value and is not one of the acceptable forms of evidence as it is not mentioned anywhere in the rules. This is what 46-SD(b)(4) says in the current rules:

If the applicant has invested by way of share capital the business accounts must show the shareholders, the amount and value of the shares (on the date of purchase) in the applicant’s name as it appears on his application. If the value of the applicant’s share capital is not shown in the accounts, then a copy of the company’s register of members must be provided,

[s_r_san]

The accountant letter has no value and is not one of the acceptable forms of evidence as it is not mentioned anywhere in the rules. This is what 46-SD(b)(4) says in the current rules:

If the applicant has invested by way of share capital the business accounts must show the shareholders, the amount and value of the shares (on the date of purchase) in the applicant’s name as it appears on his application. If the value of the applicant’s share capital is not shown in the accounts, then a copy of the company’s register of members must be provided,

I have found another point

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/immigration ... sed-system

245AA.Documents not submitted with applications
(d)If the applicant has submitted a specified document:
(i)in the wrong format; or
(ii)which is a copy and not an original document; or
(iii)which does not contain all of the specified information, but the missing information is verifiable from:
(1)other documents submitted with the application,
(2)the website of the organisation which issued the document, or
(3)the website of the appropriate regulatory body;
the application may be granted exceptionally, providing the Entry Clearance Officer, Immigration Officer or the Secretary of State is satisfied that the specified documents are genuine and the applicant meets all the other requirements. The Entry Clearance Officer, Immigration Officer or the Secretary of State reserves the right to request the specified original documents in the correct format in all cases where (b) applies, and to refuse applications if these documents are not provided as set out in (b).

For the Companies, they missed to mention the share holder of the company in company accounts
iii)which does not contain all of the specified information, but the missing information is verifiable from:
3)the website of the appropriate regulatory body;
the application may be granted exceptionally, providing the Entry Clearance Officer, Immigration Officer or the Secretary of State is satisfied that the specified documents are genuine and the applicant meets all the other requirements.

As per Companies Act 2006, the members list of companies should be updated with Companies House every year - that is called as Annual Return
It is governing body and it is also in www.gov.uk
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/
If we search a company here, we can get the company annual return and accounts filled free of charge
This is the official site of companies house (Beta service, in non beta service, they will charge £ 1.00 per document)

We can argue that the missed shareholder's name (in accounts) (can be interpreted as missing information) is available in appropriate regulatory body (245AA (d) 3)

then
the application may be granted exceptionally, providing the Entry Clearance Officer, Immigration Officer or the Secretary of State is satisfied that the specified documents are genuine and the applicant meets all the other requirements.

Mr zimba88, I welcome your comments on this and thanks for your other comments

[zimba]

It should be clear that evidential flexibility applies to the missing information from a document you submitted and not the missing document itself.
As you can see in the conditions when they ask you to submit X and you did not, the will NOT ask you to send that document unless they can verify such a information from other acceptable evidence (not some alternative unacceptable evidence you simply submitted).
This does NOT mean that you can omit required documents and hope that they will verify the information they are looking for on your behalf.

[b2buk]

The accountant letter has no value and is not one of the acceptable forms of evidence as it is not mentioned anywhere in the rules. This is what 46-SD(b)(4) says in the current rules:

If the applicant has invested by way of share capital the business accounts must show the shareholders, the amount and value of the shares (on the date of purchase) in the applicant’s name as it appears on his application. If the value of the applicant’s share capital is not shown in the accounts, then a copy of the company’s register of members must be provided,

I have found another point

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/immigration ... sed-system

245AA.Documents not submitted with applications
(d)If the applicant has submitted a specified document:
(i)in the wrong format; or
(ii)which is a copy and not an original document; or
(iii)which does not contain all of the specified information, but the missing information is verifiable from:
(1)other documents submitted with the application,
(2)the website of the organisation which issued the document, or
(3)the website of the appropriate regulatory body;
the application may be granted exceptionally, providing the Entry Clearance Officer, Immigration Officer or the Secretary of State is satisfied that the specified documents are genuine and the applicant meets all the other requirements. The Entry Clearance Officer, Immigration Officer or the Secretary of State reserves the right to request the specified original documents in the correct format in all cases where (b) applies, and to refuse applications if these documents are not provided as set out in (b).

For the Companies, they missed to mention the share holder of the company in company accounts
iii)which does not contain all of the specified information, but the missing information is verifiable from:
3)the website of the appropriate regulatory body;
the application may be granted exceptionally, providing the Entry Clearance Officer, Immigration Officer or the Secretary of State is satisfied that the specified documents are genuine and the applicant meets all the other requirements.

As per Companies Act 2006, the members list of companies should be updated with Companies House every year - that is called as Annual Return
It is governing body and it is also in http://www.gov.uk
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/
If we search a company here, we can get the company annual return and accounts filled free of charge
This is the official site of companies house (Beta service, in non beta service, they will charge £ 1.00 per document)

We can argue that the missed shareholder's name (in accounts) (can be interpreted as missing information) is available in appropriate regulatory body (245AA (d) 3)

then
the application may be granted exceptionally, providing the Entry Clearance Officer, Immigration Officer or the Secretary of State is satisfied that the specified documents are genuine and the applicant meets all the other requirements.

Mr zimba88, I welcome your comments on this and thanks for your other comments

Hi s_r_san!
My solictor told me the same point as you mentioned in your post, i am going for JR as my AR is refused, what are you planning to do? Because your case is identical to mine, can you please send me you email addres so i can contact with you, thanks

[s_r_san]

It should be clear that evidential flexibility applies to the missing information from a document you submitted and not the missing document itself.
As you can see in the conditions when they ask you to submit X and you did not, the will NOT ask you to send that document unless they can verify such a information from other acceptable evidence (not some alternative unacceptable evidence you simply submitted).
This does NOT mean that you can omit required documents and hope that they will verify the information they are looking for on your behalf.

Thanks for your comment

Let's accept your argument - 'Missing information not missing document' as interpretation to "evidential flexibility policy were “much broader” than the rules"
Sorry we need to get more views, that is why I am asking same question in deep

"If the applicant has invested by way of share capital the business accounts must show the shareholders, the amount and value of the shares (on the date of purchase) in the applicant’s name as it appears on his application."

This is major rule. If we mention me as shareholder in accounts then no need to worry about members list.

When shareholder's name is not shown in accounts only, we need to give the members list. This is alternative option by rule.

If we consider "major rule", this will be a missing information.
If we consider the "alternative option" as major rule only, this will be a missing document.

We need to find "supporting provisions in UK act" to fight above point

[s_r_san]

Hi s_r_san!
My solictor told me the same point as you mentioned in your post, i am going for JR as my AR is refused, what are you planning to do? Because your case is identical to mine, can you please send me you email addres so i can contact with you, thanks[/quote]

hi b2buk
In my case also, HO refused the AR

As next step, we are to send PRE letter

My solicitors said that mostly we can find the solution for this in hearing only (upper tribunal)
because HO will repeat whatever they have in rules, examples and their interpretations of policies
When we have correct interpretation for "evidential flexibility policy were “much broader” than the rules" only, our issues can be sort out

HO argues that we have not submitted "members list"
However they cannot argue that we have not invested 50k into business
"You have invested, or had invested on your behalf, not less than £50k " is the requirement

Sorry the author of this site may not prefer that we are communicating personally
Let's talk here and give the idea to others in similar situation

[noajthan]

Sorry the author of this site may not prefer that we are communicating personally
Let's talk here and give the idea to others in similar situation

Well said - in the true spirit of the community.

And staying in public also helps protect you from the ever present and circling scammers and spammers.

[s_r_san]

It should be clear that evidential flexibility applies to the missing information from a document you submitted and not the missing document itself.
As you can see in the conditions when they ask you to submit X and you did not, the will NOT ask you to send that document unless they can verify such a information from other acceptable evidence (not some alternative unacceptable evidence you simply submitted).
This does NOT mean that you can omit required documents and hope that they will verify the information they are looking for on your behalf.

Thanks for your comment

Let's accept your argument - 'Missing information not missing document' as interpretation to "evidential flexibility policy were “much broader” than the rules"
Sorry we need to get more views, that is why I am asking same question in deep

"If the applicant has invested by way of share capital the business accounts must show the shareholders, the amount and value of the shares (on the date of purchase) in the applicant’s name as it appears on his application."

This is major rule. If we mention me as shareholder in accounts then no need to worry about members list.

Accountants are mentioning what is share capital of business in accounts. Only they have not mentioned who is the shareholder holding those shares.
-------------------------------------------------------------
e.g.
Share capital

Authorised
50 000 Ordinary shares of £ 1 each 50,000
Allotted, called up and fully paid
50 000 Ordinary shares of £ 1 each 50,000
Equity Shares
50 000 Ordinary shares of £ 1 each 50,000
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HO may expect another line like

Shareholders
Mr s_r_san - 50,000 shares of £ 1 each 50,000
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My argument is that this is a missing information in given document.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When shareholder's name is not shown in accounts only, we need to give the members list. This is alternative option by rule.

If we consider "major rule", this will be a missing information.
If we consider the "alternative option" as major rule only, this will be a missing document.

We need to find "supporting provisions in UK act" to fight above point

[s_r_san]

Hi everyone

My application for extension was refused (04/08/2016) and admin review also
The reason for refusal was discussed earlier

Now I am in next level

I have sent a pre action letter to HO and they replied that they will reconsider the application and they will reply within 3 months

My question is about Judicial Review
The time limit for JR is 3 months from 04/08/2016 (Initial refusal) i.e. 04/11/2016

I see a risk here
If HO has maintained their refusal decision even in reconsideration also (say they inform me after 04/11/2016) I will lose eligibility for JR. Is it correct?

Is it better to apply for JR, even though HO does reconsideration ?
HO may not stop reconsideration since I apply for JR, am I correct?
I can withdraw JR if HO issue the VISA to me

After time limit for JR when HO refuses the VISA again, what will be the option available to me ?

I can see a positive sign but I cannot believe HO.

Anyone has experience in this area?
Longbattle (I think), pls give your experience

Thanks

[sm12]

Not sure if you can proceed with JR and also with reconsideration at once.
I will see if I can find info on gov.uk.

[dilse4srk]

HI S_r_san

Can you please tell me when did you file the PAP and when did you get the response from home office. I file PAP on 21 sep 2016 and got a fax from HO on 03 oct 2016 that they will reconsider my case. My case is different to you as i applied for FLR fp under private and family life married to british citizen.

I am also thinking the same thing that my 3 months will end in january 2017 , but my initial application was refused on 13 sep 2016

[s_r_san]

Not sure if you can proceed with JR and also with reconsideration at once.
I will see if I can find info on gov.uk.

Thanks for your comments

I have checked and got some points

The positive outcome of JR can be reconsideration and judge cannot order HO to issue visa in JR

So my situation is equal to a positive outcome in JR (If I am correct)

If HO refused after reconsideration, then I need to go to upper tribunal (if I am correct)

Regards

[s_r_san]

HI S_r_san

Can you please tell me when did you file the PAP and when did you get the response from home office. I file PAP on 21 sep 2016 and got a fax from HO on 03 oct 2016 that they will reconsider my case. My case is different to you as i applied for FLR fp under private and family life married to british citizen.

I am also thinking the same thing that my 3 months will end in january 2017 , but my initial application was refused on 13 sep 2016

Once I got refusal in AR, I sent a pre action letter on 19/09/2016
In 14 days time, they asked another 14 days time
then on 13/10/2016, they said that they would reconsider the application and HO would response within 3 months

particular 3 months will finish on 13/01/2017
but between 2nd week of dec and 2nd week of jan, HO people will be in holidays (?)

So will they answer before 14/12/2016 ??

Or as usual, a letter from HO with 'refusal' or 'since your case is more complicated, we need more time' ??

Regards

[dilse4srk]

Thanks for ur reply. We might wait till 10th dec before we file jr because 13 dec will be the date of 3 months since refusal and 3 jan 2017 will b 3 months for HO reconsideration time. So me and you are in same situation but with different case scenarios.please keep posted here if u do get a reply from HO.

[dilse4srk]

Aný updates?

[s_r_san]

HI S_r_san

Can you please tell me when did you file the PAP and when did you get the response from home office. I file PAP on 21 sep 2016 and got a fax from HO on 03 oct 2016 that they will reconsider my case. My case is different to you as i applied for FLR fp under private and family life married to british citizen.

I am also thinking the same thing that my 3 months will end in january 2017 , but my initial application was refused on 13 sep 2016

Once I got refusal in AR, I sent a pre action letter on 19/09/2016
In 14 days time, they asked another 14 days time
then on 13/10/2016, they said that they would reconsider the application and HO would response within 3 months

particular 3 months will finish on 13/01/2017
but between 2nd week of dec and 2nd week of jan, HO people will be in holidays (?)

So will they answer before 14/12/2016 ??

Or as usual, a letter from HO with 'refusal' or 'since your case is more complicated, we need more time' ??

Regards

As I expect HO has answered

HO approved my VISA and my lawyer received BR card today

Thanks GOD

Thanks for advises from members