British citizenship, French National

[Emma1981]

Hello All,

I am looking into the possibility of British registration of my French born and adopted son (3 years old).

The MN1 form under section 3(1) of the british nationality act 1981 seems the way to go about it, under the discretion of the Home Secretary (applying under the "Other Adoptions" heading as we live in France and were living in France at the time of the adoption. And we will continue to live here.)

I am British by birth, my husband French. We have all the necessary documents, however, after having read several posts of applicants (EU nationals, non adopted cases) being rejected on the basis of the British citizenship not being "necessary", I am looking for some advice if this is feasible for us at all.

I would appreciate any advice.

Thank you

Emma

[ohara]

Have a look at this guidance on British citizenship through adoption: https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... itizenship

Depending on the circumstances, the child may already be British.

If none apply, then yes registration at discretion under section 3(1) is the way to go. I've never heard of British citizenship being refused "because it's not necessary". Do you have a link to some examples?

[Emma1981]

thanks for the links. That is what I have read and we come under the "3. Other adoptions" category.

sorry, it was my wording and not an official reason why those people were rejected. i saw a post about a Swiss national being rejected and the "repliers" suggesting it was perhaps due to the fact the citizenship was not deemed necessary as the person in question was swiss but I think i just presumed. the reason I worry about is the fact we are french residents and have no plans to move back to England, would we be considered as not having spent enough time in England (we come back to visit family for short periods of time), or the fact that my son is already a French national so would he be less likely to get it.

I just need some clarification regarding section 3(1) for adopted and living abroad children.

[CR001]

If you are British born, your son would be British automatically if the adoption was per the UK guidelines and in terms of the Hague Convention.

Did you register your son at the Registry or British embassy once the adoption was complete and a new birth certificate was issued?

There is no 'British citizenship is not necessary' refusal from HO. Unless this was many years. ALL citizenship applicants, regardless of EU or non-EU have to meet the same requirements to register as British if they do not have an entitlement to BC.

[Emma1981]

Thanks for that.

What you state (automatic citizenship) is correct had we been habitually resident in the UK at the time of the adoption but we were not, so the only avenue is section 3(1) 'other adoptions', as we were (and are) habitually resident in France. We did not try to register his birth back then but even if we had, it would not have worked as he would not have been considered British.

Thanks for the info on that, I have looked into it further (regarding adopting and living abroad (hague convention country) and it appears a lot of cases (people on forums) are approved even if the child stays living abroad but of course each case is individual.

What I need to know is, even if we remain abroad, does this affect our chances of being approved? (because for me, British citizenship is given if we can prove we are willing to integrate into British society etc. so living abroad does not really do that) I'm probably confusing different types of applications and scenarios here and just winding myself up

[ohara]

The Home Office does not discriminate against certain nationalities when it comes to citizenship applications. The requirements for registration/naturalisation are clearly published and anyone who meets the requirements will not normally be refused (except on public safety grounds).

I believe section 3(1) registration will only be granted if the child's future clearly lies in the UK although this requirement may be waived in cases where the child is adopted. Have a look at the MN1 Guide.

[noajthan]

Chapter and verse on this vital question here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... structions

[Emma1981]

Thank you ohara. I don't quite understand what you mean by "The Home Office does not discriminate against certain nationalities when it comes to citizenship applications."? what makes you think that being adopted waives the need to fullfil the criteria of "the childs future clearly lies in the Uk"? this is exactly what i need confirmation/clarification on, so i would really appreciate your reasoning.

I have looked at the guide but it does not clearly state if a child adopted and living abroad can get the citizenship but I have had this response from someone on another forum. "No, your son can become a British citizen without your family needing to move to the UK, but this is at discretion rather than automatically as would be the case if he was adopted through the UK courts. 'Integrating into British society' is not a requirement."

Thank you noathan, I have read the info on your link and section 9.8 is what applies to us. However, as mentioned to ohara, there is no clear indication if it makes a difference if we live abroad or not. 9.8.4 (f.) is what I need clarifying

"f. we are satisfied that all relevant adoption laws have been
adhered to. This includes the laws of the country in which the
adoption has taken place, the country of origin of the child and
the country in which the adoptive parents are habitually
resident; and "

Does living abroad (France) give us a less of a chance of getting the citizenship, or does it not make a difference?

Anyone have any idea, would be much appreciated.

Thank you,
Emma

[ohara]

My point about the Home Office not discriminating against certain nationalities was in response to the part where you said

the fact that my son is already a French national so would he be less likely to get it

The reason why I say I am not sure whether the child's future needs to lie in the UK for registration in adoption cases is because it doesn't state it in the guidance:

an application will normally be approved if each of the following criteria is satisfied:

at least one of the adoptive parents is a British citizen otherwise than by descent (i.e. by virtue of his or her birth, adoption, registration or naturalisation in the United Kingdom)

the adoptive parents have consented to the registration

there is no reason to refuse registration on grounds of the child’s character

the Home Secretary is satisfied that all relevant adoption laws have been complied with. This includes the laws of the country in which the adoption has taken place, the country of origin of the child and the country in which the adoptive parents are habitually resident

the Home Secretary is satisfied that the adoption is not one of convenience arranged to facilitate the child’s admission to the United Kingdom

Point 4 in that list suggests to me that the child does not need to live in the UK. Normally, registrations under section 3(1) would only be granted if the child's future clearly lies in the UK.

[Emma1981]

thank you for that, it makes more sense to me now (sorry i was a bit slow )

[ohara]

Well I finally got around to reading the MN1 guide myself and it does look good for you.

Children adopted abroad by British citizen parents.
Applications for registration of children adopted either under the terms of the Hague
Convention on Intercountry Adoptions or adopted before 3 January 2014 in territories
designated under the Adoption (Designation of Overseas Adoptions) Order 1973 or
after 3 January 2014 in territories listed in the Adoption (Recognition of Overseas
Adoptions) Order 2013 or the Adoption (Recognition of Overseas Adoptions) (Scotland)
13
Regulations 2013 and the Adoption (Recognition of Overseas Adoptions) (Scotland)
Amendment Regulations 2013 will be considered at the Home Secretary’s discretion if:
 at least one of the adoptive parents is a British citizen otherwise than by
descent (see page 6); and
 if necessary, both adoptive parents have signified their consent to the
registration; (and in surrogacy cases, a notarised statement of consent
from the surrogate mother); and
 there is no reason to refuse on character grounds (see pages 21-24); and
 we are satisfied that all relevant adoption laws have been adhered to. This
includes the laws of the country in which the adoption has taken place, the
country of origin of the child and the country in which the adoptive parents
are habitually resident; and
 we are satisfied the adoption is not one of convenience arranged to
facilitate the child’s admission to the United Kingdom.

Clearly it does not state there is any requirement to live in or intend to live in the UK, so it looks like you're good to go.

[noajthan]

Section 3(1) registrations are at discretion; for adoption cases it depends on the provenance of the adoption.

Get more of a handle on this here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... 150402.pdf

[Emma1981]

Thank you for looking into it for me ohara, that is reassuring to know about residency situation. I'm in the process of getting all the documents together and will send them for translating.

Thank you noajthan, I have had a look at this document and we seem to be ok (official adoption in France).

I have to say it's been a nightmare trying to get hold of the Home Office to find out if there is a biometric centre in paris. Does anyone know by any chance please?

[noajthan]

I have to say it's been a nightmare trying to get hold of the Home Office to find out if there is a biometric centre in paris. Does anyone know by any chance please?

Maybe here
https://uk.tlscontact.com/fr/par/news.php

[Emma1981]

Thank you noajthan. I did contact them last week but apparently they can't help me.

[ohara]

If there is no dedicated biometric centre, it'll almost certainly be done at the British embassy in Paris.

[Emma1981]

Thank you. I will contact them to confirm.

I appreciate everyone's help on this, thank you. Will keep you posted with the result.