Marry her so she can stay?

[SeekingRest]

Hello all,
I am a German PhD student (scholarship with 15.7k Pound annually), living in London since 09/15. Met my partner in 12/15, who is Chinese and now finished her CSC-funded PhD (Tier 4 Study Visa I think), and this Visa runs out mid 01/17. After trying for months, we are stressed and desperate by now as it seems unbelievably hard to be eligible for any Visa in the UK.

She now found a company willing to employ her, but probably cannot get a one-year Doctorate Extension Scheme Visa because she received funding from a state institution in the last 12 months, and in that case has to have an approval letter of the Chinese government which she probably won't get (correct me if I am wrong about my assumption of being stuck on that route. It seems she is obliged to have a post-doc position at University to circumvent this requirement). The job pays at least 30k per year.

Now we consider marrying so we can stay together, but read about financial requirements and so on. Would she be eligible for a family-based Visa if we married now?

Many thanks to everyone
Daniel

[noajthan]

You are a Union citizen and may invoke free movement treaty rights!

Marry lovely fiance, take out CSI and you become sponsor to your direct family member dependent.
Such a dependent may reside, work even study to heart's content - at least until UK leaves EU.

No stringent financial requirements, no language test etc etc on EU route.

[CR001]

Although to marry, you have left it very late given her visa expires next month and you will be obliged to give 28 days notice to an HO approved Registry to marry who then inform HO of a non-EU wanting to marry and HO can extend this notice to 70 days to investigate and interview both of you (separately).

[SeekingRest]

Thanks people! We booked an appointment at the local registry office on the 18.01. for the marriage, however the Visa expires on 17.01. What steps should we take next? Can we already start with the Family Visa application before the 18.01., or at least prepare for it?

And what about Comprehensive Sickness Insurance? Do we both have to provide that, and if so, how? We were both working as PhDs until now and have just been covered by NHS, so I am afraid we are not sufficiently insured at the moment.

Finally, Is it a good idea to contact an immigration advisor to make sure both the marriage appointment and the Visa application will be accepted?

Thank you again!

[Casa]

One question. If your girlfriend's visa expires on the 17/01 and the marriage is taking place on 18/01, did the Registrar ask to see your passports.

You don't require CSI if you are working.

You won't be applying for a Family visa. Your wife will need to submit an application for an EEA Residence Permit.

What do you mean by 'the marriage appointment will be accepted' An Immigration Advisor has no influence on whether the marriage can take place.

[noajthan]

Thanks people! We booked an appointment at the local registry office on the 18.01. for the marriage, however the Visa expires on 17.01. What steps should we take next? Can we already start with the Family Visa application before the 18.01., or at least prepare for it?

And what about Comprehensive Sickness Insurance? Do we both have to provide that, and if so, how? We were both working as PhDs until now and have just been covered by NHS, so I am afraid we are not sufficiently insured at the moment.

Finally, Is it a good idea to contact an immigration advisor to make sure both the marriage appointment and the Visa application will be accepted?

Thank you again!

Have you decided on UK route and spouse visa or EU route and free movement;
ie direct family member sponsored by Union citizen qualified (in immigration context) person?

If reasonably intelligent, methodical and organised you should be able to manage this without a representative unless time-poor.
And a rep cannot sway the outcome or even add credibility.

[Casa]

If you choose the UK route and your fiancee's visa has expired by the time you marry, she will have to leave and submit a spouse visa application from outside of the UK.

[CR001]

OP and partner can't use the Spouse visa route if OP is EU citizen residence in UK since 2015.

[Casa]

OP and partner can't use the Spouse visa route if OP is EU citizen residence in UK since 2015.

Good point

[SeekingRest]

One question. If your girlfriend's visa expires on the 17/01 and the marriage is taking place on 18/01, did the Registrar ask to see your passports.

We booked an appointment online over a Government website (and paid a hefty fee) and had to put our nationalities, but nothing more immigration related. We cannot currently reach any Registrars/relevant Government people to clarify this, as it is closed now until 03.01. They do want to have a valid passport as document, but it doesn't explicitly list Visas/immigration documents.

So the UK route as a spouse (family Visa) does not work because I have only been working here since 2015, okay.
But if we go the EU route (EEA residence permit/card), will the marriage be allowed despite the fact that her Visa runs out one day before the marriage appointment?

I called an immigration advisor that just said it's fine because I am a European citizen, but my partner's immigration agency said we would have to marry somewhere else as they would not even allow us to marry on the 18th.

And am I right that as soon as we are actually married though, it is easy to immediately apply for an EEA residence permit, which is not associated with financial or other stringent restrictions?
We urgently need to know whether this route will work, as otherwise I guess we will have to book a last-minute trip to the US (the only country that we currently both have a Visa for) to get married there...

Finally, are you sure CSI is not a problem? Because I am a PhD student and get money tax-free. A PhD colleague of mine had problems with applying for permanent residence since apparently she didn't have one during her PhD time and CSI is not a condition to study at my University. She told us to get a European Health Insurance Card (EHIC), which I have now from the UK, and an old one from Germany which may not be valid at the moment because my insurance contracts there are put on hold for the time being. This document (https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... _clean.pdf page 44 onwards) describes what qualifies as comprehensive sickness insurance, and it can be either private medical insurance or an EHIC from your >>home<< country. But obviously I thought I didn't need to be covered by my home country... So what to do now? Get some private insurance in Germany, or in the UK?

Thank you all so much for this. It really helps a lot. Have a happy christmas and new year!

[noajthan]

If you can jump ship to EU migration route you will be in clover compared to hard-pressed Brits who have to bring non-EEA family in on crippling UK domestic route.

Yes, to be considered a student qualified person (in immigration context) you need CSI (for both parties).

Once married a FM RC is optional but may prove a wise investment with all this wild talk of Brexit.
And if planning to study make sure wife-to-be's uni are fully appraised and on-side.

[Casa]

Your post is unclear.

1. Which Government website did you register on?

2. The fees to marry aren't 'hefty'. How much did you pay?

3. Do you believe the marriage ceremony will take place on the 17th Jan or is this an appointment to register your intent to marry?

[SeekingRest]

Once married a FM RC is optional but may prove a wise investment with all this wild talk of Brexit.

Sorry, do you mind explaining to me what an FM RC is? Didn't find anything on the internet. Thanks!

[CR001]

FM RC = Family Member Residence Card

[Obie]

Thanks people! We booked an appointment at the local registry office on the 18.01. for the marriage, however the Visa expires on 17.01. What steps should we take next? Can we already start with the Family Visa application before the 18.01., or at least prepare for it?

The appointment does not mean that will be the date of the marriage, as a matter of law, the registry office will be required to notify the UKVI about your wife's intention to marry you, and the borders Agency or UKVI as they now call it, will have 70 days to investigate the marriage, only if they do not object or invite your wife for an interview, will the marriage be allowed to proceed.

You may have to consider a Durable partner application during this period, for her to be on the safe side.

[Casa]

A durable partnership (akin to marriage) may be difficult to prove as the relationship has only been in existence for 12 months and the Home Office generally take a hard line and expect to see a full 24 months of co-habitation, unless there are exceptional circumstances.

Have you lived together during these 12 months and have documented evidence to show co-habitation...shared tenancy and bills, joint finances etc.

[SeekingRest]

Your post is unclear.

1. Which Government website did you register on?

2. The fees to marry aren't 'hefty'. How much did you pay?

3. Do you believe the marriage ceremony will take place on the 17th Jan or is this an appointment to register your intent to marry?

1. Newham is our borough, therefore we used the Newham Government website's online booking: https://www.newham.gov.uk/Pages/OnlineF ... rship.aspx

2. Because a non-EU citizen is involved, I think the fee was over 90 pounds... So for me as PhD student this is not exactly a small sum. But I'll gladly pay it anyway.

3. (It's the 18th, the Visa expires 17th) - It's the latter - an appointment to register our intent to marry. So maybe that's why they didn't ask a lot of details for now, as they could reject our application later..?

A durable partnership (akin to marriage) may be difficult to prove as the relationship has only been in existence for 12 months and the Home Office generally take a hard line and expect to see a full 24 months of co-habitation, unless there are exceptional circumstances.

Have you lived together during these 12 months and have documented evidence to show co-habitation...shared tenancy and bills, joint finances etc.

Good point! Unfortunately we have only been living together for a few weeks, so it may be unlikely that we can prove a durable partnership. That leaves two main issues open:

1. Can we successfully register our intent to marry on the 18th although her Visa expired the day before? Does she have to leave the country for a short period of time until it is approved, but then return after successful marriage? Alternatively, is it better we quickly visit another country now to marry there instead of risking the marriage here to be rejected? After coming back to the UK, could we immediately start with the Visa applications or do we have to register/prove the marriage as well?

2. Do I (and my partner?) as a PhD student need private insurance in order to fulfil the CSI requirement and therefore be considered a "qualified" EEA resident that can be accompanied by family members so that her application is successful?

[Casa]

1. This will be referred by the Registrar to the Home Office. Be aware that if you are interviewed by the HO (which is probable) with no valid visa your fiancee risks being detained on the day.

2. You will also have to convince the HO that the relationship is genuine and the marriage isn't simply a means to remain in the UK

3. It remains to be seen whether you have time to marry outside of the UK and return before your fiancee's visa expires as she only has 19 days left. Otherwise, you'll have to wait until she has been issued with a Family Permit in order to enter as a family member of an EEA national. You won't be able to apply for this from a country where she is there as a visitor.

4. CSI is required to be held by you as your partner's EEA sponsor.

[wegiwegi]

why did you not consider to marry in Germany?
wouldn't be easier?

[ALKB]

why did you not consider to marry in Germany?
wouldn't be easier?

Marrying a non-EEA national in Germany is horribly complicated, takes ages to get permission for (often several months) and is very expensive (depending on country, often 500 Euro or more just to pay for the document verification process).

Denmark could be a good option but with a soon-to-expire visa it may not be easy getting a Schengen visa for that.

[Casa]

why did you not consider to marry in Germany?
wouldn't be easier?

Marrying a non-EEA national in Germany is horribly complicated, takes ages to get permission for (often several months) and is very expensive (depending on country, often 500 Euro or more just to pay for the document verification process).

Denmark could be a good option but with a soon-to-expire visa it may not be easy getting a Schengen visa for that.

Unfortunately Denmark isn't an option and there may be the same issue with the validity of the fiancee's visa with other Schengen States:

"If you live in the UK and are returning to the UK after your visit to Denmark you must hold a UK visa/residence/work permit valid for at least 3 months after your visit."

[SeekingRest]

So we went to an immigration lawyer, that advised us to do a delay tactic. Send in an EEA EFM or the T4 DES application a few days before the 17th and come to the marriage appointment on the 18th with a proof of having applied for a Visa. The processing of this application then likely takes longer than we need to get married in the meantime, and then we can change the application to an EEA FM one, for which we fulfil all requirements.
I purchased a private insurance for me and my partner now, as the lawyer said it is also required for my partner, to fulfill CSI.

My partner called the registrar today though, who said that we cannot get married on the 18th if she does not provide her original passport document - however, at that time we planned to have submitted a Visa application to HO which requires to send in the original passport! So even with proof of application and copy of passport, they supposedly wouldn't proceed with our intent to marry because of the passport document - which doesn't make much sense, since they would forward the application to HO anyway, which have the passport at that point in time at their disposal!!!

Called the lawyer again, and we came to the conclusion that we should do the DES with a premium service so she gets her passport back on the same day, and hopefully finish this before the 18th so she has her passport. However, we now don't know what to do in case they ask for further documents, in which case the lawyer told me they would keep her passport, or if it gets refused - Since apparently we cannot get married after the 17th because she needs to have a pending Visa application, but also have the original passport at both the HO and the registrar.
This is insane! This can't be right, can it? Any advice would be very appreciated, since we are getting quite desperate...

PS: Marriage in other EU states is no option unfortunately since she needs a Schengen Visa which she can't get since her current Visa is running out in fewer than three months.

[CR001]

So we went to an immigration lawyer, that advised us to do a delay tactic. Send in an EEA EFM or the T4 DES application a few days before the 17th and come to the marriage appointment on the 18th with a proof of having applied for a Visa. The processing of this application then likely takes longer than we need to get married in the meantime, and then we can change the application to an EEA FM one, for which we fulfil all requirements. What is T4 DES? I know what T4 is but what is DES??

I purchased a private insurance for me and my partner now, as the lawyer said it is also required for my partner, to fulfill CSI.

My partner called the registrar today though, who said that we cannot get married on the 18th if she does not provide her original passport document - however, at that time we planned to have submitted a Visa application to HO which requires to send in the original passport! So even with proof of application and copy of passport, they supposedly wouldn't proceed with our intent to marry because of the passport document - which doesn't make much sense, since they would forward the application to HO anyway, which have the passport at that point in time at their disposal!!! Don't confuse the numerous different departments of HO, which are located at numerous different address across the UK, as being a 'one size fits all' setup. Different departments and different locations deal with different application and different processes.

Called the lawyer again, and we came to the conclusion that we should do the DES with a premium service so she gets her passport back on the same day, and hopefully finish this before the 18th so she has her passport. However, we now don't know what to do in case they ask for further documents, in which case the lawyer told me they would keep her passport, or if it gets refused - Since apparently we cannot get married after the 17th because she needs to have a pending Visa application, but also have the original passport at both the HO and the registrar.
This is insane! This can't be right, can it? Any advice would be very appreciated, since we are getting quite desperate... This system has been tightened due to the huge amount of abuse and sham marriages for migrants (many T4 migrants) to remain in the UK by marrying an EU citizen. Unfortunately, genuine couples suffer.

PS: Marriage in other EU states is no option unfortunately since she needs a Schengen Visa which she can't get since her current Visa is running out in fewer than three months.

[noajthan]

@Char, T4 DES = Tier 4 Doctorate Extension Scheme

However OP started this whole thread on basis that

... cannot get a one-year Doctorate Extension Scheme Visa because she received funding from a state institution in the last 12 months, and in that case has to have an approval letter of the Chinese government which she probably won't get

and it seems only those with valid Tier 4 leave who have not yet completed their PhD/doctorate are eligible to apply.

[wegiwegi]

why did you not consider to marry in Germany?
wouldn't be easier?

Marrying a non-EEA national in Germany is horribly complicated, takes ages to get permission for (often several months) and is very expensive (depending on country, often 500 Euro or more just to pay for the document verification process).

Denmark could be a good option but with a soon-to-expire visa it may not be easy getting a Schengen visa for that.

Well, were you expecting a free ride, of course will cost you, I bet your lawyer is costing you as much. Marrying a non-EEA in the majority of eu countries is not easy, I did marry my Peruvian wife in one of my home countries, the easy one was Switzerland in this case, but cost me much more than 500 euros, and 3 months of paperwork, emails, phone calls, etc that was in August 2014, she is still here, second application sent, and waiting to see what happens. If your relationship is really genuine, then you should be ok. good luck, looks like you are going to need some.