VAF4A Spouse and Child Dependant

[Londoner007]

Obie glad to hear from you again. This is another piece of puzzle I need to solve. I suppose the certificate that I ordered may provide some clues.

In terms of what happened after arriving in UK, I have made brief call to HO to check my citizenship but they were adamant I must be BC by descent because born abroad. I need to find a way to get someone from HO to confirm this. So far I've been told to apply for duplicate certificate, but I don't know if such certificate on my records even exists!

[Obie]

Interesting how many puzzle are in your case.

What year were you born. Surely it must be after the 1January 1983 right?

[Londoner007]

I was born 1987. I will not give up will keep trying to fix the puzzles together. Even though I was very confused at first, at the same time I am learning a lot from these researches.

[Londoner007]

Manage to see the Citizenship registration certificated and below is the fine details from them:

Father:
Certificate title - British Nationality Act 1948 Confirmation of Registration as a Citizen of The United Kingdom and Colonies
Registered as Citizen of the United Kingdom and colonies under section 6 (1) of British Nationality Act 1948 as amended by section 12 (2) of the Commonwealth Immigrants Act 1962
Date: 1970

Grandfather:
Certificate title - British Nationality Act 1948, Section 6 (1)
5.I am citizen of the following countries - Pakistan
6 (a) (i). I am ordinarily resident of The United Kingdom
The above names applicant has been registered as a Citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies
Date: 1959

These are the only records available.

What does this all mean? It appears both were just registered and not naturalized.

[Obie]

Did they provide you with copies of these certificate showing under which legal provision they wereally issued.

[secret.simon]

It appears both were just registered and not naturalized.

That is absolutely fine. Before 1983, Commonwealth citizens acquired British citizenship by registration, not by naturalisation (which was reserved for non-Commonwealth citizens). After 1983, children acquire British citizenship by registration, while adults naturalise. The language changes, but the effect remains the same.

Father: Certificate title - British Nationality Act 1948 Confirmation of Registration as a Citizen of The United Kingdom and Colonies
Registered as Citizen of the United Kingdom and colonies under section 6 (1) of British Nationality Act 1948 as amended by section 12 (2) of the Commonwealth Immigrants Act 1962
Date: 1970

Given that your father was born in 1936 and was registered in 1970, that means that he acquired British citizenship by registration as an adult. Based on the provisions, it looks like he was registered in his own right, i.e. not by descent.

So, you are, as you mentioned before, British by descent.

To make the Section 3(2) application, apart from your father's registration certificate copy (your grandfather's registration is irrelevant and may muddy the waters), you would need
a) Your parents' marriage certificate
b) Your birth certificate
c) Your marriage certificate
d) Your child's birth certificate
e) The usual (application form, fee payment form, photographs, etc)

Wish you the best of British.

[Londoner007]

Thank you both, I will try upload both certificates and let you guys have a look at the specific legal terms. I will link the certificates here soon.

[Obie]

Please don't upload personal details on this forum.

[Londoner007]

My Fathers Certificate is worded exactly as follows:

BRITISH NATIONALITY ACT 1948
CONFIRMATION OF REGISTRATION AS A CITIZEN OF THE UNITED KINGDOM AND COLONIES
This certificate confirms that the person named below, being a British subject or Commonwealth citizen or a citizen of the Republic of Ireland, has been registered as a Citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies under section 6 (1) of the British Nationality Act 1948 as amended by section 12 (2) of the Commonwealth Immigrants Act 1962.
NOTE (1) this certificate is valid only if it bears the embossed stamp of Home office
Name
Address
Place and country of birth
Father’s name
Wife’s name

My Grandfathers Certificate is worded exactly as follows:

FORM R.1 BRITISH NATIONALITY ACT, 1948, SECTION 6 (1)
APPLICATION FOR REGISTRATION AS A CITIZEN OF THE UNITED KINGDOM AND COLONIES UNDER SECTION 6 (1) OF THE ACT MADE BY AN ADULT BRITISH SUBJECT OR CITIZEN OF THE REPUBLIC OF IRELAND, ON THE GROUND OF ORDINARY RESIDENCE IN THE UNITED KINGDOM OR IN ANY OF THE CHANNEL ISLANDS, THE ISLE OF MAN, A COLONY, A PROTECTORATE, A PROTECTED STATE TO WHICH SECTION 8 (I) OF THE ACT HAS BEEN APPLIED OR A UNITED KINGDOM TRUST TERRITORY OR ON THE GROUND OF CROWN SERVICE UNDER HER MAJESTY'S GOVERNMENT IN THE UNITED KINGDOM
I am a person of full age and capacity and was born at……
I am a citizen of the following countries mentioned subsection (3) of section one of the British Nationality Act 1948, that is to say Pakistan.
By reason of the fact that 6 (a) (i) I am ordinarily resident in The United Kingdom
I have been so ordinary for the past twelve month as follows:…..
THE ABOVE NAMED APPLICANT HAS BEEN REGISTERED AS A CITIZEN OF THE UNITED KINGDOM AND COLONIES
NATIONAL DIVISION HOME OFFICE LONDON 1959

[Londoner007]

Hi, quick question that I keep hearing others ask me.

If you have a spouse and a child abroad and you as the sponsor meet all financial requirements etc to sponsor their applications, Is it worth registering the child as a BC first and then sponsor the wife via VAF4A form.

Provided that to register a child from abroad as a British Citizen and then Apply for a British passport or ROA certificate to enter into uk can take over an year altogether, Is it really worth? Would this make the application for the spouse more stronger?

Would you recommend that, instead both should be sponsored jointly for settlement visa?

[vinny]

Posts merged.

[vinny]

There are also some subtle differences for child, depending on which section child registers under.

[Londoner007]

Yeah different categories have different requirements. What am asking is; does making a Child BC have any influence on mothers settlement application (VAF4A form) i.e being BC will it help?

[CR001]

No. The applicant for a spouse visa must still meet the requirements, although the financial requirement will be less if the child is BC.

[Londoner007]

Thanks CR001. The situation is that the sponsor meets all requirements to apply for both child and wife (financial, housing etc).

He can either:

submit 2 x VAF4A with Appendix 2 now

or

register child as BC, then apply for British Passport for child so that child can enter UK, or even ROA can be used. And then do 1 x VAF4A with Appendix 2 for the wife

If the child is registered as British, apart from needing to show less financial requirement, can argument be used that now child is BC and will be entering UK then the mother needs to be given Entry clearance too because child cannot cope without mother.

The husband and wife have been married for 5 years so they are trying to look for any avenues such as registering child as BC to help make her case to ECO stronger?

Thanks

[CR001]

If the child is registered as British, apart from needing to show less financial requirement, can argument be used that now child is BC and will be entering UK then the mother needs to be given Entry clearance too because child cannot cope without mother.

Not really, because the child is not in the UK but living in the same country as the mother. Even if the child was in the UK, your wife will still have to meet all the requirements for entry clearance spouse visa.

How old is the child?

[Londoner007]

Child is 4. Can be registered using MN1 but the whole process of registering and then getting a British passport for someone located abroad together can take at least 8 months and then similar time for a British passport due to all correspondence from home office etc taking ages to get there ie theres delays in communication due to the geographics. MN1 category is fully met too and can be done when child enters UK anyway. The real decision to make is should just go settlement route for both or register child first

[CR001]

The real decision to make is should just go settlement route for both or register child first

Either and only you can make that decision.

[Londoner007]

I appreciate that. Juggling the pros and cons is baffling me. Am trying to weight out if there is really any real notable benefit in this case to register child as BC first, provided that been married for 5 years and now applying for settlement for the wife we need to make this case stronger by any means.

I am leaning towards just going for settlement route for both, as the whole process of MN1 especially doing it from abroad is just so long winded.

Initially BC route was looked into because there was a shortfall in sponsors salary (£20,144 pa, same job 2 years.. required £22,400 for), but didn't realise that you can use savings combined with salary to make the shortfall and satisfy the financial requirement?. (Savings are £22,552, which have been held in an accessible account for 9 months).

[Londoner007]

Hi everyone, I have started quest in getting documents required for a spouse visa + child settlement visa to submit in June 2017.

Background:
• Married 7 years ago in Bangladesh, 4 Year old child
• Main issue will be the subsisting relationship due to period of time apart
• Will b submit VAF4A and Appendix 2 x 2 for spouse and child dependent in June
• Decided against registering child as British Citizen due to time it will take to come through

My main issues which will be picked up by ECO are:
Subsisting relationship – Why didn’t I apply after marriage. Cover letter will explain pre-2012 had very low paid job and overcrowded house, did not want to put burden on third party support or rely on public funds myself. Then could not apply post 2012 rule because financial requirement wasn’t met. I could have met is with a second job but this was not possible because I am also a carer for a disabled person at evenings at dedicate a lot of time caring. Will provide proof and letter confirming this. However, I did continuously apply for jobs to get better salary, will provide proof of this.

I am not making excuses and everyone can have their judgement on why it took so long, but it is how it is right now and I am looking for satisfy this requirement.

Financial Requirement:
Will apply under CAT A + D Cash savings. Salary £21,000 P/A, same employer past 14 months. I believe I require (22400-21000 x 2.5 +16000) £19,500 in cash savings to meet financial requirements
Cash Savings: £20,000. Cash saving reached £20,000 on 9th December 2016

Questions for you:
Can I add that if this wasn’t a subsisting relationship then there would have been no plan for a kid. Solicitor says adding child as proof of subsisting relationship can add weight?

When is the earliest that I can submit the VAF4A and Appendix 2 forms? Provided Savings reached threshold in 9/12/16. Which months payslips do I add, paid end of each month. So: Dec-May?

Will a visit before submission of VAF4A add weight to subsiding relationship? Last visit to Bangladesh was in 2014, will explain on cover letter this was due to being a carer to a disabled person and also due to me wanting to save money to apply for Spouse and Child.

Is there anything else I can do to strengthen this case?

Thank you

[seagul]

I think it will be unwise to tell the reasons that why you hadn't applied spouse visa after marriage and regarding subsisting relationship your worries are valid because you may have to provide an extensive range of evidences. Usually whatsapp chats/cells, Facebook, Skype record, emails, gifts exchanges, money transfer receipts, personal visits etc can serve the purpose. But you haven't visited your wife & kid from 2014 may be asked for.

[Londoner007]

Thanks

I have the following that cover past 7 years:

• Mostly used phone calls for communication
• Applicant and Sponsor WhatsApp chat and call logs very recent
• Sponsor O2 call logs, Applicant Call logs matching each other
• Travel itineraries / boarding passes link it with passport (entry and exit stamps)
• Proposed Travel booking to Bangladesh whilst application being processed
• Photographs during sponsor’s visit – maximum 25 photos showing throughout relationship
• Hotel Bookings together
• Train/transport Bookings
• Gift exchanges receipts
• Money sent receipts
• Gift Sent to Applicant from UK receipts
• Letters sent to each other

Will a visit before application submitted be of benefit?
What is the earliest I can submit application provided savings met threshold in December 9th 2016?

[vinny]

Posts merged.

[Londoner007]

Will a visit before application submitted be of benefit?
What is the earliest I can submit application provided savings met threshold in December 9th 2016?

[Londoner007]

???