Urgent help needed for extension confusion !!!!

[zimba]

There is no formula, however in each accounting period you should be able to see if the director salary was paid by the revenues or came from your investments.

[Mak9878]

There is no formula, however in each accounting period you should be able to see if the director salary was paid by the revenues or came from your investments.

Hi Zimba,

If the HO deduct director salary from revenue (sales), not from the profit then I have following revenue and director salary withdrawals, perhaps I am at safe side: If i take revenue approach as follows as mentioned by zimba.

1) From Jan 2014 to Jan 2015
Sales 4600 and Director Salary 5000 and Director Loan injected was 5000
Difference to add as director loan (400)

2) From Feb 2015 to Jan 2016
Sales 0000 and Director Salary 7800 and Director Loan injected was 22,000
Difference to add as director loan= 7800

3) From Feb 2016 to Jan 2017
Sales 36000 and Director Salary 8450 and Director Loan injected was 23000
No difference to add, already over

Total sales in 3 yrs= 40600 minus 21,330 (total director salaries in 3 yrs)
Net sales= 19,270 and director loan remain unaffected which is 50,000

Is this the way HO going to consider i.e. revenue approach for deducting director salaries?

Waiting for your reply anxiously.

Thanks

[Mak9878]

If your company was in loss so any directors salary you took is out of the directors loan .

£xxxxx (Director loan ) - £xxxx (Directors salary) = Investment as directors loan . if this is less than 50k or 200k you will need to reinvest this as directors loan or HO will not award any points for investment . Make sure to put all the money back during initial leave before you are due Ext . Money can just stay in company account don't need to spend if not needed by company .

Dear Kapoor,

I got your point but zimba was saying about revenue so i thought its better to confirm which approach HO follows i.e. Revenue or Profit approach towards deduction of director salaries taken while company was in loss.

I am due next month to submit application and now i think i would need management accounts as well because the excess director loan will be added obviously after annual accounting period i.e. end of Jan 2017.

But stupid accountant who does not have any idea lead you these silly mistakes and they convince you with logical reason that you can withdraw whatever you like because you can not work and business is only your survival.

Well, amount to add again is to big, lets c what i can do.

Thanks for your time and consideration..

God bless you..

[Mak9878]

Dear all,

I have found this from Tier 1 Entrepreneur Policy guidance from page 19 to page 20 with title "Access To Funds"[/b which i believe was the requirement of initial application or perhaps apply on extension as well.

[Access to funds
45.Where you are seeking to be awarded points on the basis of access to funds, we may ask you to
demonstrate that the funds you have used to apply remain available to you beyond the date of
your application. The funds must continue to be available to you until they are invested in a
business or businesses, or spent for the purposes of your business or businesses. ‘Available to
you’ means that the funds must be in one of the following:
1) in your own possession,
2) in the financial accounts of a UK incorporated business of which you are the director, or
3) available from the third party or parties named in your application (if applicable).
Tier 1(Entrepreneur) Policy Guidance version 11/2016 - Page 20
For the purposes of the above, ‘invested’ or ‘spent’ by your business’ excludes spending on all of the
following:
1) your own remuneration,
2) buying the business from a previous owner, where the money ultimately goes to
that previous owner (irrespective of whether it is received or held directly or
indirectly by that previous owner) rather than into the business you have bought.
This applies regardless of whether the money is channelled through the business
en route to the previous owner. For example, by means of you or your business
purchasing ‘goodwill’ or other assets which were previously part of the business
you have bought,
3) investing in businesses, other than those which you are running as self-employed or as
a director, and
4) any spending which is not directly for the purpose of establishing or running your
own business or businesses.
46.If the funds to which you have access are being made available to you by a third party, the
declaration from that third party must confirm that the funds will remain available to you until they
are transferred to you or to your business.
47.We may request further evidence or verify that the money will remain available and we will
refuse your application if this evidence is not provided or if we cannot satisfactorily verify it. If
your application is refused on other grounds we may not carry out the genuine entrepreneur
test assessment, but if we reconsider the decision we may do the assessment then.
48.If you already have leave as a Tier 1 (Entrepreneur) migrant we may curtail your leave if the
funds you have used to apply cease to be available to you (unless you have spent them in the
establishment or running of your business or businesses). ‘Invested’ or ‘Spent’ excludes
spending on your own remuneration
49.You will only be considered to have access to funds ]

[tier1in2014]

Agree with Zimba, He is Correct there is no formula to count that as it will all depend on your revenue on yearly basis . Count the way he explained above . check with your accountant to explain you more on this as he/she or made your accounts knowing your revenues profits and loans year to year .

[Mak9878]

Hi everyone,

I have noticed an interesting thing in my accounts that total expenditure including employee salary (excluding director salary) over 3 years is 44,000 and director loan invested over 3 years 50,000..

It is obvious that i had withdrawn director salaries of 21,330 but that is not counted here.

So isn't it clear that from 50,000 director loan, 44,000 was utilized by business expenses (including employee salary excluding director salary) and remaining 6000 of director loan should be available in business account?

I have nearly 25000 funds available in my business account despite from revenue or director loan.

Am I right or wrong to justify director salaries withdrawal explanation?

[shwetabhatia]

Hello Guys, going to apply for extension in few days, need to know few things please guide :

Actually we are 2 team members and we took out the £3500 each salary in second year and £6000 each in 3rd year while we had loss in second year about £5500 after deducting the directors salary of £7000 (£3500 each)
and in the 3rd year we had £1000 net profit after deducting the £12000 directors salary (£6000 each for whole year). My question are :-

1. Do we need to show extra £7000 director investment as we took out the salary in second year while we had loss in that year.

2. We both have 1 seprate client so we earned some income as self employed in same business. Do we need to send our self assessment return and mention about our self employment.

[Mak9878]

yes my friend,

if your company was in loss and you both were taking salary (whether there was good sales or revenue), those salaries are deducted from your injected director loan.

so if you have time just insert back director salary...thats it

whereas second question is concerned, I am not sure but I believe yes, you would need to show self employed documents...but wait for other members response on this question.

[Camel555]

Dear all,

I have found this from Tier 1 Entrepreneur Policy guidance from page 19 to page 20 with title "Access To Funds"[/b which i believe was the requirement of initial application or perhaps apply on extension as well.

48.If you already have leave as a Tier 1 (Entrepreneur) migrant we may curtail your leave if the
funds you have used to apply cease to be available to you (unless you have spent them in the
establishment or running of your business or businesses). ‘Invested’ or ‘Spent’ excludes
spending on your own remuneration
]

Can pls someone confirm , does the above point mean that during initial leave of 3.4 years, HO can check your accounts and cancel the leave if you have temporarily moved some funds away from your account?

[Mak9878]

Hi Zimba, Kapoorinusa, moderators and successful extension applicants,

I am in great confusion over my director loan as discussed above. I am topping up my director as said by all including solicitor but i have few questions below:

1) I am topping up director loan in the same month (march ) in which i am going to apply at the 3rd week of month. will that director loan be counted?

2) I have seen some posts regarding that when you apply whether first time extension or may be 2nd time fresh extension (after AR), you need to stop working as director and also stop operation (stop taking salary) or may be appoint someone from employees to act on your behalf...could you please explain that when i will apply 1st time extension, do i have to stop my business as director and stop taking salaries as well?

3) What actually i need to show for director loan going to be top up in march, is it management accounts for company OR management accounts for director only?

4)My annual accounts ended in January, now obviously i need to make management accounts in view of new director loan going to be added in march.. so how long management accounts can i show (from feb 2017 to 10 of march) and i will be applying 3rd week of march.

5) I have same personal account for maintenance funds from which i have transferred director loan to business accounts with reference as "investment funds then my name appears automatically next to it in business statements (is that ok)"

6) Shall i make copies of 90 days personal statement and get stamp and sign from bank...so that case worker do not get confused over same statements used for director loan and maintenance funds? please suggest.

waiting for your reply anxiously..

Thanks.

[tier1in2014]

Hi Zimba, Kapoorinusa, moderators and successful extension applicants,

I am in great confusion over my director loan as discussed above. I am topping up my director as said by all including solicitor but i have few questions below:

1) I am topping up director loan in the same month (march ) in which i am going to apply at the 3rd week of month. will that director loan be counted?

Yes

2) I have seen some posts regarding that when you apply whether first time extension or may be 2nd time fresh extension (after AR), you need to stop working as director and also stop operation (stop taking salary) or may be appoint someone from employees to act on your behalf...could you please explain that when i will apply 1st time extension, do i have to stop my business as director and stop taking salaries as well?

NO

3) What actually i need to show for director loan going to be top up in march, is it management accounts for company OR management accounts for director only?

Since you have your annual accounts up to Jan 17 so it has to be managements accounts for company and directors are the same .

4)My annual accounts ended in January, now obviously i need to make management accounts in view of new director loan going to be added in march.. so how long management accounts can i show (from feb 2017 to 10 of march) and i will be applying 3rd week of march.

its up to you any date before you application .

5) I have same personal account for maintenance funds from which i have transferred director loan to business accounts with reference as "investment funds then my name appears automatically next to it in business statements (is that ok)"

That will be fine

6) Shall i make copies of 90 days personal statement and get stamp and sign from bank...so that case worker do not get confused over same statements used for director loan and maintenance funds? please suggest.

That's fine you can use that and make sure it covers at least 90 days for maintenance .

waiting for your reply anxiously..

Thanks.

[Mak9878]

Hi Zimba, Kapoorinusa, moderators and successful extension applicants,

I am in great confusion again since I have seen a new post regarding calling funds from abroad through father and mother-in-law directly into business account (which is not going to be counted as director loan obviously)... I have few questions in the same regard and would definitely need your valuable suggestion from all members:

I have shown in initial application that i would be calling funds from my back home personal account to here (50,000)..But doing a bank transfer from there directly here was costing me too much..so i transferred money (from my back home personal account) to my father into same currency (back home father account). And my father used to buy pounds and sent me here in several transaction through his foreign sterling account to my personal account here...

Now the questions are:

1) As soon as my father payment arrived in my personal account here, i just transferred same day to business account, so in this regards if i send my personal statements to reflect the transaction were done by me to business account then obviously HO is going to see the funds were coming through third party rather than from my back home shown personal account for initial application.. Do i really need to send personal statements for showing the transfer from me to business as director loan? top of that my name does appear automatically in business statement reference that "investment funds xyz" (when i received investment funds into business account)

2)Unfortunately i have become failed to arrange money to top-up director salary amount taken from business account over 3 yrs.. So my accountant is saying that you have sales receivables (debtors or account receivable) amount is nearly same as director salary amount taken and your total accumulated 3 yrs turnover is enough to cover expenses,director salaries and previous yrs losses as well, then you should be fine as per accountant. whats your suggestion in this matter? and the payments of receivable (debtors) are counted by HO?

3)if sales receivable/debtors/account receivable of this current year (equivalent or above the withdrawn director salary in 3 yrs), will HO deduct salary from those receivable in this year sales? OR Will HO deduct director salaries from all accumulated 3 yrs sales including debtors/receivable/sales receivable? OR Will HO still deduct director salaries taken from director loan?

waiting for your replies anxiously....

Thanks

[zimba]

1) As soon as my father payment arrived in my personal account here, i just transferred same day to business account, so in this regards if i send my personal statements to reflect the transaction were done by me to business account then obviously HO is going to see the funds were coming through third party rather than from my back home shown personal account for initial application.. Do i really need to send personal statements for showing the transfer from me to business as director loan? top of that my name does appear automatically in business statement reference that "investment funds xyz" (when i received investment funds into business account)

You simply need to send the business bank accounts, showing money came from you.

2)Unfortunately i have become failed to arrange money to top-up director salary amount taken from business account over 3 yrs.. So my accountant is saying that you have sales receivables (debtors or account receivable) amount is nearly same as director salary amount taken and your total accumulated 3 yrs turnover is enough to cover expenses,director salaries and previous yrs losses as well, then you should be fine as per accountant. whats your suggestion in this matter? and the payments of receivable (debtors) are counted by HO?

Depends. Make sure that in each accounting period you did not have to use investments to pay salary

3)if sales receivable/debtors/account receivable of this current year (equivalent or above the withdrawn director salary in 3 yrs), will HO deduct salary from those receivable in this year sales? OR Will HO deduct director salaries from all accumulated 3 yrs sales including debtors/receivable/sales receivable? OR Will HO still deduct director salaries taken from director loan?

There is no guide on this, better to assume yearly as your accounts are prepared

[Mak9878]

Hi Zimba, Kapoorinusa, sm12, moderators and successful extension applicants,

My accountant is not giving me letter for "50k investment has been done letter" and he says you just need job creation letter from accountant as per guidance (which i know) but my solicitor is saying to get investment letter from accountant.

And accountant is forcing me to ask your solicitor to show me in guidance where does it say that accountant has to confirm client investment has been done.. Then he will be happy to write if solicitor or me show him from policy guidance otherwise no.

My question are as follows:

1) I can't see anything in policy guidance that accountant has to confirm investment has been done..but anyone of you have seen it somewhere in guidance please let me know so that i can show accountant for writing a letter to confirm investment.

2) if there is nothing like this exist as per accountant policy guidance... shall i go with job creation letter. what do you suggest.

Waiting for your valuable suggestion..thanks

[zimba]

1) I can't see anything in policy guidance that accountant has to confirm investment has been done..but anyone of you have seen it somewhere in guidance please let me know so that i can show accountant for writing a letter to confirm investment.

There is NO such requirement in the rules. An accountant's letter is not an acceptable evidence of investment

2) if there is nothing like this exist as per accountant policy guidance... shall i go with job creation letter. what do you suggest.

It is up to you. You can ask him to confirm the hourly rates for example however again there is no such requirement in the rules.

[Mak9878]

thanks zimba for your valuable reply...but most of the applicants have included investment letter from accountants..that looks bit funny that it looks like mandatory now....so its sometime make you worried...Thanks zimba alot

[Mak9878]

Hi Zimba and other seniors.

I have confusion in application form over following questions, if you guys can help me out. In initial application i have shown my own funds available back home. In this regards, what should i have to tick..

1) Section: K
K4. Were any of these investment funds shown as part of your successful application for your last grant of leave?
1.Yes all of the funds were shown in the previous application. Go to part L
2.Yes some of the funds were shown in the previous application. Go to K5
3. No none of the funds were shown in the previous application. Go to K6

Also

2) L1. Do you wish us to take your date of entry into the UK as your specified date?
1) Yes - go to question L2 (2) No - go to question L3

Also

3) N1. Real Time Information was introduced by HMRC in April 2013, and rolled out in fullfrom 6 Oct 2013. This requires employers to comply with PAYE regulations by sending FullPayment Submissions to HMRC in ‘Real Time’. What date did you begin submitting Real Time Information to HMRC?

I was having director salary on PAYE. do i have to give that date OR when my employees joined PAYE.

4)In table 3b1, do i have to list all 20 transactions from my personal account to business account?

Waiting for your answers anxiously.

Regards
Majid

[Mak9878]

Can we make banker's draft payable to "Home office" £1204 from Business Account and also IHS surcharge.

[zimba]

I have confusion in application form over following questions, if you guys can help me out. In initial application i have shown my own funds available back home. In this regards, what should i have to tick..

1) Section: K
K4. Were any of these investment funds shown as part of your successful application for your last grant of leave?
1.Yes all of the funds were shown in the previous application. Go to part L
2.Yes some of the funds were shown in the previous application. Go to K5
3. No none of the funds were shown in the previous application. Go to K6

Option 3 as you did not show money was INVESTED previously

2) L1. Do you wish us to take your date of entry into the UK as your specified date?
1) Yes - go to question L2 (2) No - go to question L3

If you did not switch in the UK then YES, as the date of entry is the specified date. Otherwise NO.

3) N1. Real Time Information was introduced by HMRC in April 2013, and rolled out in fullfrom 6 Oct 2013. This requires employers to comply with PAYE regulations by sending FullPayment Submissions to HMRC in ‘Real Time’. What date did you begin submitting Real Time Information to HMRC?
I was having director salary on PAYE. do i have to give that date OR when my employees joined PAYE.

That is the date where you made the first RTI payroll submission.

4)In table 3b1, do i have to list all 20 transactions from my personal account to business account?

Yes

Can we make banker's draft payable to "Home office" £1204 from Business Account and also IHS surcharge.

NO. IHS fee must be paid online and separately here: https://www.gov.uk/healthcare-immigrati ... cation/pay

[Mak9878]

Hi Zimba, seniors and other successful applicants.

I have submitted following documents, hope they are well.

A) Documentary evidence for Investment in UK Business (Section- K), 20 Points Claimed
1. Original HMRC welcome letter (CT41G)
2. Original HMRC Employer Registration and Account Office Reference Number Letter
3. Director Loan Agreement
4. Company House printout of Company Details
5. Company House printout of Personal Appointment
6. Company House printout of Filling History page
7. Current Appointment Report from Company House
8. Schedule of Director’s Investment funds transfer into Company Business Account.
9. Business Bank Statement highlighting the investment funds transfers from Director personal account into Company Business Account.
10. Unaudited Accounts from 2016 to 2017 (also reflecting un-audited accounts from 2015 to 2016) with compilation report and two CT600.
11. Unaudited Accounts from 2016 to 2017 with compilation report and two CT600
12. Unaudited Accounts from 2015 to 2016 and one CT600
13. Old and amended Un-audited Accounts from 2014 to with compilation report and CT600.

B) Documentary evidence for Register as a Director within Six months (Section- L), 20 Points Claimed
1. Original Company House Letter congratulating on recent appointment as Company Director
2. Current Appointment Report from Company House
3. Company House printout of Filling History page
4. Incorporation Certificate
5. Copy of HMRC welcome letter (CT41G) (original already supplied in Section-K documents)

C) Documentary evidence for engaged in Business Activity at the time of application (Section- M), 15 Points Claimed
1. Company House printout of Company Details
2. Company House printout of Personal Appointment
3. Company House printout of Filling History page
4. Copy of HMRC welcome letter (CT41G) (original already supplied in Section-K documents)
5. Stamped and Signed photocopy of latest Barclays Business Bank Statement showing payments, receipts, HMRC PAYE payment, salaries payments etc.
6. Original Barclays Business Bank Statement already supplied in Section-K.

D) Documentary evidence for created two full time equivalent posts (Section-N), 20 Points Claimed.
1. 12 Months RTI Full Payment Submissions of Employees of Advance Business Tips Ltd.
2. P45 for Job-1
3. P60 for Job-1 and Job-2
4. 12 Months Payslips from 2016 to 2017 for both Job-1 and Job-2
5. Job Creation Letter from certified accountant including Investment note and Employees hours work sheet.
6. Copy of Accountant’s Practicing Certificate
7. Document of Settled Employees including
a. Copy of Passports
b. Copy of ILR BRP Cards

E) Documentary evidence for English language (Section-P), 10 Points Claimed
1. Original Bank Statement
2. Also stamped copy of recent Bank Statement.

F) Documentary evidence for Maintenance Funds (Section-Q), 10 Points Claimed
1. MBA Original Degree
2. MBA Original Transcript

G) Extra Documents for Support of Application
1. Recent Certificate of Employers’ Liability Insurance
2. Recent Director Self-Assessment with S302 calculation at the back
3. HMRC Employer Registration and Reference Number.
4. Business Bank Account welcome letter from Barclays.

H) General Documents
1. Cover Letter
2. Immigration Health Surcharge paid printout
3. Passport
4. BRP Card
5. Banker’s Draft
6. Application Form version 11/2016

unfortunately i have placed wrong yellow chits on Section-P and Section-Q but documents inside were fine in the plastic cover and also in the form documents submission sheet and document points claiming sheets were filled correct. Will it matter?

are the documents ok?

[jafersadeq]

1. Company House printout of Company Details
2. Company House printout of Personal Appointment
3. Company House printout of Filling History page

Dear Mak9878,

You stated three documents instead of one document (Current Appointment Report). Why?

Thanks,

[Mak9878]

1. Company House printout of Company Details
2. Company House printout of Personal Appointment
3. Company House printout of Filling History page

Dear Mak9878,

You stated three documents instead of one document (Current Appointment Report). Why?

Thanks,

I have added atleast three current appointment reports. but looks bit mix and match either in the yellow chit on the front of documents inside in transparent cover for each section-k, section-l, section-m, section-n, section-p and section-o.

I needed to ask about following question,

N2. Please state which specified documents have been provided to demonstrate your job
creation (please tick as appropriate)
a)Documentation to prove the employee was a settled worker;
b)For directors - a printout from Companies House of the company’s filing history page and of
a Current Appointment Report to show that the applicant is/was a director of each business
for the period;
c)Employee Payment Records, original HM Revenue & Customs P45 or P46 (if applicable);
d)Real Time-Full Payment Submissions;
e)Pay or wage slips to cover total period of employment created for each worker.

I have added payslips, fps-Rti, documentation to prove settle worker, p45, p60..... what i might have missed to add is employee payment records...could you please let me know that what document i needed to show for employee payment record

Can i send with cover letter missed document to be included.

[schahzeb]

do we really have to send Director Self-Assessment or is it just optional.

[Mak9878]

do we really have to send Director Self-Assessment or is it just optional.

not required...but i have just added as extra..

[jafersadeq]

P11