Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

[silverman123]

Hi @salu
Thanks for your ask man.
I submitted my application couple weeks ago.
Hopefully i will hear good news soon.
And hopefully kam999
Will receive his PR soon.
Best of luck to those still waiting.

[kam999]

Hi Guys,

I was occupied with work and didn't get a chance to visit this saviour site.

First of all thank you everyone, Silver, Salu and all others who have been through or planning or are in the process of obtaining their PRC for your help, knowledge and experience. Yes, I received my permanent BRP a few days ago.

I just wanted to give some insight which may help others who are feeling a surge of anxiety after sending their application. I asked for return of documents last month and when they returned it, guess what? they returned the whole case including a letter saying my PR was issued since June, like almost 3 months after i sent my application. and if I haven't asked them for return of documents they might take full 6 month before replying to any of my query. nonetheless, I am happy and getting ready for the next battle with HO as i have a little history with them so they are not going to give me nationality that easy, neither I am in rush, I would rather wait for couple of years prior to sending my application to become a British citizen. For now permanent residence is enough security to be here and work towards my/our future. Also, you know the explanation letter they sent when they return the documents, they said as per the dates I told them I obtained PRC in the beginning of last year, which is not true as I only completed my 5 years this year, didn't really get this part..

SladeW - We need more info in regards to your application otherwise anything we say is not going to make sense. However, I would recommend that check the caseworkers guidance notes at:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... .0-EXT.PDF
start reading from page 35, you know better if you have a history with HO, if not, submit a fresh application and try to give as much evidences as you can while proving that you guys are living together and obviously marriage certificates, on the above link it also says:
An applicant must show they are the family member of an EEA national. This would
usually come from a valid marriage certificate. If you suspect the marriage or civil
partnership is one of convenience, it is for the Secretary of State to prove this.
which means they should explain to you that why they think ur relationship is not genuine. Let us know your next move so we can shed our humble opinions.

Salu - Whats up mate, are you ready for British citizenship? also I am wondering should i take life in UK and English test now of wait as they might change rules when I plan to apply for citizenship, what do you think?

Silver - You were the most optimistic among all of us, and this hard time of urs will be over very soon, I pray for you. did u mention in ur cover letter that why you should be issued PRC and not another RC? and I hope u did not pay enormous amount to ur solicitor for this app. keep us posted.

All other users, all the best!

[CR001]

Salu - Whats up mate, are you ready for British citizenship? also I am wondering should i take life in UK and English test now of wait as they might change rules when I plan to apply for citizenship, what do you think?

Kindly post any citizenship question in the British citizenship sub forum.

Unlikely anything will change for citizenship though.

[kam999]

Sorry CR001, the group shared the stress with me was here, hence the above message, will move to citizenship form from now on for the relevant queries. But thanks for your help with the answer.

[SladeW]

Hi @ salu
Thank you for your reply
End of November we submitted an EEA fm application March we been married July we submitted as well another application as a direct family memeber so two applications pending
After the submitting of the second application they sent the refusal letter with a not clear reasons
1- showing dependency on my wife so they want to see bank transfers from her account to my account prior entering the UK ( I can’t have a bank account until I will get my PR what it is really impossible ) My Wife is paying for everything bills rent food and it is clear on her bank statement ( HO got like 2 years of her bank statement)
2- they are saying that our marriage is one of the convenience and what is it working too as they saying that the officer from the interview was suspecting that and as well it’s a lie because we passed it our officer was a senior officer he tried his best without their stupid inappropriate questions like lying to my wife and telling her that I got a red alert with Police like I’m a criminal etc ... anyway the officer look that day to me was like he couldn’t do nothing to stop us !!!
He didn’t give us the letter for the town hall but still we went to town hall for information and they said you have green light to get marry . If something was wrong as they stating they would arrest me on the day of the interview or on the day of marriage.
Here why it’s so stressful to me and my wife and son bcause they are lying and make the life hard and difficult.
Now the the second application is still pending and my all file was sent back to our solicitor.
My solicitor sent a letter to HO asking for right of appeal and get access to our interview as urgent and if we don’t hear from them within the 14 days we will take the case to court without further notice . And in my point of view this is too much exaggerated from the HO
Bcause they wrong and they making lots of trouble and even not clear division without any prove provided .

[salu]

Hello ,

@SladeW, I really don't know what to say. It seems that your struggle goes way further than Lounes. I hope your solicitor gets an answer soon and that they give you an opportunity to appeal. I'm sorry I cannot offer any advice.

@Silverman, keep us posted re your second application, I hope second time goes better and faster!

@kam999, your history with the HO sounds intriguing. I am glad you got your PR too! congrats!
Re naturalisation, my initial thought was to wait until having 1 year of PR (October in my case, 6th anniversary of marriage). Though in theory in our cases (dual EU?UK sponsor), my understanding is that we don't have to wait to have PR for one year as the sponsors are UK citizens. It says so in the letter confirming PR.
In the end, I booked the test (it doesn't expire), and I passed it last week. Maybe got too excited, and in the same day I booked an appointment to have my documents checked at the council so I don't have to send them with an online application for naturalisation. My main motivation to do it asap is to use this service (thinking that u never know how long it will be available for in the same format). I will add the timeline in the relevant topic once I send the application. How about you?

Good luck everyone!

[SladeW]

@Salu
Seriously HO look like they don’t know what they are doing they making crimes against humanity and family life especially when kids are involved . They seems didn’t follow the rules and they are incompetent as they only have a contradicting evidence as asking for proof of cohabitation and we already gave them ( council tax , bills etc...) they are incompetent bcause if we fail the marriage interview we would be stopped and they won’t let us get married bcause they have all the right to do so ( they did send the confirmation to town hall for letting us getting married ) ( contradiction ).... we didn’t hear about anything the only reason we were on hold it’s bcause of lounes case 9 months of wait even my solicitor received a short certificate without no right of work of course and then suddenly lounes case was in force they changed their statement to other issue like bank transfers and of course false and wrong allegation of marriage of convenience as nothing they can mention to refuse our application.... what it is very wrong and false accusations that we will make the HO pay for the pain and stress caused and waste of time when we have all the proofs and evidence especially we have a 2 year old son ....
Ho fail to sent a record of the marriage interview as we still waiting for it as we have all the right to get access.
We gonna go to media and news paper we will show the world our pain caused by HO we want to show that there are people they don’t deserve to work for HO there are people who don’t care and incompetent representing the HO and they don’t know what they are doing making families suffer and making you spend lots of money to go to court ( court procedures take time as well ) instead to look at the case properly or investigate properly the matter rather than accusing people without no proof .
At the end we gonna sue the HO ; it’s an abuse of human right the of forming a family .
My wife is a dual National exercising her treaty rights we are married officially and we have right of appeal ,they makde a big mistake to refuse our application and Stop is from the right of appeal this is against the law .

[silverman123]

Dear moderator@ Richard w
@Vinny @Obie @CR001
and friends please need your advice.
Today we received and email from HO says they made a mistake and i should got my permanent residence and they admitted it but because i applied for new application they can't correct my residence card.
Now my question is shall i send this email as update to my application???
My solicitor told me they got all records any way on their system.
What am I suppose to do now??
I'm to worried that they may do another mistake.
However they already know that i applied for my permanent residence.
Greatly appreciate with your response by today
Many thanks in advance

[eubritish]

Dear moderator@ Richard w
@Vinny @Obie @CR001
and friends please need your advice.
Today we received and email from HO says they made a mistake and i should got my permanent residence and they admitted it but because i applied for new application they can't correct my residence card.
Now my question is shall i send this email as update to my application???
My solicitor told me they got all records any way on their system.
What am I suppose to do now??
I'm to worried that they may do another mistake.
However they already know that i applied for my permanent residence.
Greatly appreciate with your response by today
Many thanks in advance

Didn't they say anything in the email as to what you should do?

If I were you, I would reply to the email or call them to ask what you should do next.

[kam999]

Hello ,

@SladeW, I really don't know what to say. It seems that your struggle goes way further than Lounes. I hope your solicitor gets an answer soon and that they give you an opportunity to appeal. I'm sorry I cannot offer any advice.

@Silverman, keep us posted re your second application, I hope second time goes better and faster!

@kam999, your history with the HO sounds intriguing. I am glad you got your PR too! congrats!
Re naturalisation, my initial thought was to wait until having 1 year of PR (October in my case, 6th anniversary of marriage). Though in theory in our cases (dual EU?UK sponsor), my understanding is that we don't have to wait to have PR for one year as the sponsors are UK citizens. It says so in the letter confirming PR.
In the end, I booked the test (it doesn't expire), and I passed it last week. Maybe got too excited, and in the same day I booked an appointment to have my documents checked at the council so I don't have to send them with an online application for naturalisation. My main motivation to do it asap is to use this service (thinking that u never know how long it will be available for in the same format). I will add the timeline in the relevant topic once I send the application. How about you?

Good luck everyone!

Hi Salu,

Thank you mate. You got it right and should go for naturalization, better to do it sooner rather than later . I am gonna take it easy, gotta sort out some personal stuff first and then slowly will take the tests too. All of you would have got your passports by then so probably will take advice from you given you still use this form
All the best

[AlfaBeta123]

So, I'm an EU national, who obtained BC. Will my sister in law (my husbands's sister - who's here as a family member) benefit from this ruling as well? She currently has a RC, applying for a PR (however I've already obtained my BC

The Home Office seems to think so. If you had permanent residence when you acquired British citizenship, and have not since lost it, she is protected by the changes to the EEA Regulations in the Immigration (European Economic Area) (Amendment) Regulations 2018.

OMG that's absolutely amazing news!

[AlfaBeta123]

First of all thank you everyone who has shared their experience, opinion and advise! It is very much appreciated.

As you may be aware, I'm a dual citizen who obtained BC last January. My husband was sponsored through the EU route (he has now become a BC). I've just been reading some comments on the new case and it seems that people advise me that even the extended family member of an eu national is protected (as long as I still have the PR:).

His sister (my sister in law, adult, ) was sponsored as well as an extended family member of EU national by me through the EU route. She obtained her RC,which expires in this November.
She is planning to go back to her non EU country in October to get a civil ceremony with her BF (who lives in a non EU country). That's a worry for later.
However will the boarder agency be difficult if there is only 1 month left on the Residence card ? She will be travelling alone. Will they let her back in again (supposedly she went on holiday)?
Will there be a note on the system, that I have in the mean time obtained my BC and will this cause problems at the airport? Knowing our border officers are doing such a great job in what they are supposed to do...

just want to ensure she avoids any issues and plans things ahead.
Apologies if this is not the right section for this question.
Thanks in advance!

[silverman123]

Update
I got my permanent residence finally.
So happy guys.
Thanks to everyone who helped us in forum.

[salu]

@silverman123: That is fantastic news!!!! congratulations!!!! Glad they corrected their mistake quite quickly. Finally. Thank you for sharing, and for all the support and positivity you have provided in this forum!!!

[silverman123]

Thanks @ Salu
It was very stressful one. But at the end of the tunnel we all passed it.
God be with everyone who still waiting.
I will always keep an eye on this forum in case if somebody needs help.

Many thanks to all seniors and moderators.

To all silent readers stay positive and never lose hope.

[Unluckyeea2]

Hi everyone !
Thanks to all for updates .
@Silverman congratulations and Thank you for sharing good news .

[AlfaBeta123]

Bumping this post to see if anyone can add valuable advise please?

First of all thank you everyone who has shared their experience, opinion and advise! It is very much appreciated.

As you may be aware, I'm a dual citizen who obtained BC last January. My husband was sponsored through the EU route (he has now become a BC). I've just been reading some comments on the new case and it seems that people advise me that even the extended family member of an eu national is protected (as long as I still have the PR:).

His sister (my sister in law, adult, ) was sponsored as well as an extended family member of EU national by me through the EU route. She obtained her RC,which expires in this November.
She is planning to go back to her non EU country in October to get a civil ceremony with her BF (who lives in a non EU country). That's a worry for later.
However will the boarder agency be difficult if there is only 1 month left on the Residence card ? She will be travelling alone. Will they let her back in again (supposedly she went on holiday)?
Will there be a note on the system, that I have in the mean time obtained my BC and will this cause problems at the airport? Knowing our border officers are doing such a great job in what they are supposed to do...

just want to ensure she avoids any issues and plans things ahead.
Apologies if this is not the right section for this question.
Thanks in advance!

[kam999]

Hi AlfaBeta123,

They can detain her for further questioning. If I were her I would submit my case, plea for passport return without application and then make travel arrangements. When I said detain her, I meant if she reveals that she went to get married they might question her future planing (so you thinking that few days in her RC expiring may be completely irrelevant but that's just me). Please be advised that EU route for EFM is not valid anymore, however, those who already obtained there cards will be exempted from this. It might not be a hassle free arrival back to England for her. Contrarily, Law is in her favor, When I traveled inn-out from UK unaware of the situation that my spouse Dual nationality can cause complication for my future stay in UK or at the airport while returning from holidays, luckily HO did not even ask any question probably they did not update their system. Can't say for sure how it works, but I think you acquiring British nationality following British passport and then traveling on that passport is what bring you in their radar. All in all as per my observation and study from previous similar cases she will get persimmon to enter (again it is just me). But why take risk last minute, when she waited 5 years, it will be prudent to either obtain PRC or submit application and after bio-metric info plan her journey. I didn't mean to scare you but just sharing possible outcomes and I am not an expert it's just my opinion, for more detail please seek legal help unless a Guru can comment on your case.

[marcsiga]

Hi Guys,

We posted PR application on 04/09/2018.All went well(according to others timeline) until BrP fingerprint.Since then nonsign from homeoffice.
When I read about others, i see people applied after us and they already got PR.
We didnt even receive COA ;-((
Any one applied in September ?
Do u think it will take longer time because of dual nationality?

Thank you,
Maria

[kam999]

Hi Guys,

We posted PR application on 04/09/2018.All went well(according to others timeline) until BrP fingerprint.Since then nonsign from homeoffice.
When I read about others, i see people applied after us and they already got PR.
We didnt even receive COA ;-((
Any one applied in September ?
Do u think it will take longer time because of dual nationality?

Thank you,
Maria

Hi Maria,

I believe every case has its own skeleton and structure hence a delayed or earlier result, both outcome are possible. I did not even receive COA. Don't give it too much thought, as long as all the requirements are in place i.e. paper work in regards to supporting documents and the 4 basic pillar, I believe you know.. you should not be worried. Some people received it after 45 days. Those who received their BRPs within 1 or 2 months, most of them are EU nationals as it is easier for them and mostly the case is straight forward. In your/our case there is a sponsor and a TCN, so they will take their time. It could merely be a laid-back case worker or there might be complication i.e. they should allow ur partner to work or not and if you receive your COA and he is not allowed to work, is not it better and you don't receive it at all? Like I said don't look too much at others achievement or defeat, your time will come and every thing will be all right as long as you provided what they are after. Good luck.

[marcsiga]

Hi Guys,

We posted PR application on 04/09/2018.All went well(according to others timeline) until BrP fingerprint.Since then nonsign from homeoffice.
When I read about others, i see people applied after us and they already got PR.
We didnt even receive COA ;-((
Any one applied in September ?
Do u think it will take longer time because of dual nationality?

Thank you,
Maria

Hi Maria,

I believe every case has its own skeleton and structure hence a delayed or earlier result, both outcome are possible. I did not even receive COA. Don't give it too much thought, as long as all the requirements are in place i.e. paper work in regards to supporting documents and the 4 basic pillar, I believe you know.. you should not be worried. Some people received it after 45 days. Those who received their BRPs within 1 or 2 months, most of them are EU nationals as it is easier for them and mostly the case is straight forward. In your/our case there is a sponsor and a TCN, so they will take their time. It could merely be a laid-back case worker or there might be complication i.e. they should allow ur partner to work or not and if you receive your COA and he is not allowed to work, is not it better and you don't receive it at all? Like I said don't look too much at others achievement or defeat, your time will come and every thing will be all right as long as you provided what they are after. Good luck.

Hi kam999,

Thank u so much for taking ur time&energy reading and replying to mu post!

U did give me some good advice and u r right, it is difficult to wait;-(

I am just keepnon beingna silent reader and keep on praying .
Eventually somthing will happen

Thank u so much Kam

[marcsiga]

Hi guys,

I got the COA today

[kam999]

Hi guys,

I got the COA today

Great! Soon you will get ur brp as well.

[marcsiga]

Hi guys,

I got the COA today

Great! Soon you will get ur brp as well.

I really hope so!! Thank u so much for ur encouragement Kam!! U give hope to all of us all time! I am just a silent reader but i can tell what a big support u are for us!!
Thank u ,
Maria

[oneglasseyed]

Hi All,

Apologies but we have been silent readers for the past few months & think it’s about time to share our story too. I am an EU & UK citizen, following the Lounes case since February 2017 & waited until the ECJ ruling in November 2017 before applying.

Timeline:
Arrived in the UK from EU: 2009
Naturalised in the UK: 2016
EEA Family Application: 20 Dec 2017 (married to non-EU residing outside the EU)
Refusal date: 10 Jan 2018
Appeal submission date: 17 Jan 2018
UKVI Appeal Withdrawal offer: 27 July 2018 (notice, it’s a just few days before the deadline date below)
UKVI Appeal evidence submission deadline date: 1 August 2018

This is where it gets interesting: the judge did not like the wording of the UKVI withdrawal offer letter because UKVI had stated “This request for withdrawal is in order for a recommendation to be sent to the Decision Making Centre where your original application was decided to overturn the refusal decision and grant Entry Clearance” on the basis that I am a qualified person & citing Lounes as being the key point for their withdrawal (not sure I’m allowed to post the actual letter so I won’t but that’s the gist of it).

In effect, their Withdrawal Offer was only a recommendation which was subject to the Decision Making Centre’s acceptance. Not good at all, when you factor a schizophrenic UKVI into the mix ☹

Judge’s Refusal to accept withdrawal: 5 August 2018 (Judge directed UKVI to revise withdrawal offer letter & make less conditional)
Actual Appeal Hearing date: 5 September 2018
Appeal Decision: Appeal allowed on the same basis as UKVI withdrawal points (i.e. I am a qualified person + Lounes), Judge awarded us costs
UKVI Passport Request: 5 October 2018
Passport Submission to visa centre: 10 October 2018 (hopefully )
Passport returned with visa: TBC, will update as develops

It took a phone call every fortnight to the Appeals Tribunal to keep abreast of updates which turned out to be a good thing as I was able to provide verbal, on the spot acceptance of the Judge’s decision to refuse the UKVI withdrawal offer letter.

My rationale was if the Judge was not happy with the wording & wanted something more concrete, he probably had good reason to be. He must have seen a few about turns from the UKVI to make him suspicious of their “recommendations”.

Also, we now had a final hearing date of 5 September at that time, so only had 4 more weeks to wait for a decision which we were now reasonably confident would go our way as UKVI had already admitted as much in their Withdrawal Offer letter.

So, chin up folks, the Lounes ruling is probably the best thing to happen to us EU/UK dual nationals yet .

Just to say a massive thank you to everyone for sharing their stories, we’d have gone potty if this thread wasn’t here to keep us going.

Happy to provide any clarifications if it helps…