Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

[eeaprneu2]

It is there for the 14th of November no ?

It is yes! fingers, and toes, and eyes, crossed......

[at12]

Once they decide, does it have immediate effect; can the government appeal?
I.e. if ruling in favour of Lounes, is it safe for an EEA sponsor to submit a naturalisation application on the 15th of November?

[eeaprneu2]

Once they decide, does it have immediate effect; can the government appeal?
I.e. if ruling in favour of Lounes, is it safe for an EEA sponsor to submit a naturalisation application on the 15th of November?

I am not sure to be honest how that works. Government cannot appeal because ECJ is the top court so they will have to accept it but does it immediately become law? or does it have to wait UK have updated theirs? not sure.

Sala was overturned yesterday but the EEA Family Permit for Extended Family guidance is not updated yet. One of the forum gurus like Obie, Vinny or Richard can tell us more.

As for the submission of your application though, you can submit. You are not British until you have attended the citizenship ceremony anyway.

[lappotto]

Note that I am overly simplifying.

Assuming the ECJ follows what the AG said, the judgment will say that the Citizenship directive should be interpreted as not denying EU rights to someone that has exercised treaty rights and then became a national of the country where she/he now resides.

The ball will then go back to the High Court which will acknowledge how EU law should be interpreted as per ECJ ruling, and quash the definition part of the EEA Regulation saying that a British citizen is not considered to be an EEA national (and therefore cannot benefit from EU rights).

Technically, you do not need to wait for the High Court to deal with Lounes, as EU law has supremacy over national law. As there is a conflict between UK secondary legislation and EU law, UK secondary legislation should be disapplied (including by the Home Office!) and interpreted in a way that is compatible with EU Law, i.e. Lounes can enjoy EU rights. Having said that, the Home Office blatantly does not react as fast as it should and I feel most of the case worker (and even more senior staff) would require a good refresh of basic EU law concepts.

I will personally file my application few days after Lounes, assuming the ECJ follows the AG's opinion.

[eeaprneu2]

Note that I am overly simplifying.

Assuming the ECJ follows what the AG said, the judgment will say that the Citizenship directive should be interpreted as not denying EU rights to someone that has exercised treaty rights and then became a national of the country where she/he now resides.

The ball will then go back to the High Court which will acknowledge how EU law should be interpreted as per ECJ ruling, and quash the definition part of the EEA Regulation saying that a British citizen is not considered to be an EEA national (and therefore cannot benefit from EU rights).

Technically, you do not need to wait for the High Court to deal with Lounes, as EU law has supremacy over national law. As there is a conflict between UK secondary legislation and EU law, UK secondary legislation should be disapplied (including by the Home Office!) and interpreted in a way that is compatible with EU Law, i.e. Lounes can enjoy EU rights. Having said that, the Home Office blatantly does not react as fast as it should and I feel most of the case worker (and even more senior staff) would require a good refresh of basic EU law concepts.

I will personally file my application few days after Lounes, assuming the ECJ follows the AG's opinion.

I am in the same boat. I have booked my ceremony for the 15th. If the decision comes in favor of dual nationals, I will go ahead, otherwise cancel and forget about the British citizenship. This will suck big time but it is what it is.

[AlfaBeta123]

So what happeneds to the people who already had a recent ceremony and are now currently dual national?
Surely the ruling will also apply to them? I'm extreemly worried at the moment!

[UkEEAnational]

Morning

It’s 9:30 am in the European court and soon the verdict will be out

Back on this forum again after Vinny created a link of dual national rights back in April as I asked series of questions related to my husbands dual nationality

Glad to see people posted a lot of information

Hoping the judgement will come in favor of us

[zapzap]

Let’s see what happens

[ninkas]

Good morning
Keeping my fingers and toes :~)

[eeaprneu2]

I can't wait for the decision to come in our favor. Very nervous. I am dying to pee but don't want to leave the computer searching for the decision to show somewhere.

[pochaco]

https://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/doc ... 0121en.pdf

Here is the decision which is favorable to Lounes.

[UkEEAnational]

Here it’s what the Lounes barrister said on his Twitter account 1 min ago


Parm Saini
@PPSSaini
·
1m
Lounes C-165/16: Success! Grand Chamber gives landmark judgment in favour of protecting dual EU nationals' #freemovement rights & the effectiveness of those rights by giving derived residence to their family

[pochaco]

Accordingly, the Court holds that a non-EU national in Mr Lounes’ situation is eligible for a
derived right of residence under Article 21(1) TFEU, on conditions which must not be
stricter than those provided for by the directive for the grant of such a right to a thirdcountry
national who is a family member of an EU citizen who has exercised his right of
freedom of movement by settling in a Member State other than the Member State of which he is
a national.

However, will Lounes be able to acquire Permanent Residence?

You can’t count time spent in the UK with a derivative right of residence towards applying for permanent residence in the UK.

https://www.gov.uk/derivative-right-residence

[UkEEAnational]

What do you mean by the derivative right of residence

Accordingly, the Court holds that a non-EU national in Mr Lounes’ situation is eligible for a
derived right of residence under Article 21(1) TFEU, on conditions which must not be
stricter than those provided for by the directive for the grant of such a right to a thirdcountry
national who is a family member of an EU citizen who has exercised his right of
freedom of movement by settling in a Member State other than the Member State of which he is
a national.

However, will Lounes be able to acquire Permanent Residence?

You can’t count time spent in the UK with a derivative right of residence towards applying for permanent residence in the UK.

https://www.gov.uk/derivative-right-residence

[pochaco]

Please note, I might be wrong as I am not a lawyer neither an expert. But at first glance the court says, that Lounes is entitled to a derived right of residence and as the holder of such a right he can live in the UK with his wife. However, the UK government website says that those with a derivative right of residence cannot count the years spent in the UK towards Permanent Residence, and without PR they will not be able to apply for British citizenship either.

Is my interpretation corect?

[eeaprneu2]

Please note, I might be wrong as I am not a lawyer neither an expert. But at first glance the court says, that Lounes is entitled to a derived right of residence and as the holder of such a right he can live in the UK with his wife. However, the UK government website says that those with a derivative right of residence cannot count the years spent in the UK towards Permanent Residence, and without PR they will not be able to apply for British citizenship either.

Is my interpretation corect?

I don't think so. Non-EEA family members always 'derive' their rights from the directive and in this case they will 'derive' their rights from the TEFU, so I don't believe there is a difference.

[ninkas]

[/quote]

I don't think so. Non-EEA family members always 'derive' their rights from the directive and in this case they will 'derive' their rights from the TEFU, so I don't believe there is a difference.
[/quote]

I agree with your interpretation,however would be great to see how Gurus will explain the outcome.

[pochaco]

The Guardian reports: EU citizens who become British can still have non-EU spouses live with them, court rules

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... them-court

“The court has held that the UK has been wrong to refuse to recognise free movement rights for all those EU citizens who have been naturalising as British following the Brexit referendum. After Brexit, though, all those rights will be lost unless an agreement is reached to retain them.” said the immigration barrister Colin Yeo, an expert on freedom of movement.

[lappotto]

I read it on the contrary, i.e. Lounes won't be able to obtain PR, but will be able to stay in the UK, live and work.

I am waiting for the full judgment to have a clearer view, but we might also need to wait the high court dealing with this point, if at all.

[Obie]

FULL JUDGEMENT PROMULGATED

[DFDS.]

Looks like the judgement does cover just one section of family members, not Other family members. And in light of the on going Brexit negotiations on citizen's rights, it's obvious the ECJ could not contradict with what the EU negotiators are pushing for after Brexit, that current EU citizens exercising treaty rights in the UK, should continue with there rights to be joined by there non EU Family members.

[Angie77]

Does anyone know if this benefits european dependents children of a dual uk/eu citizen?

[vinny]

Dual citizens and EU citizenship: clarification from the ECJ

[chaoscontrol]

Dual citizens and EU citizenship: clarification from the ECJ

Ok , thank you very much for the Link , so , we all now are aware about ECJ decision in `Lounes case . But I still can not find any info about when do these changes will take effect in the UK law ? any idea ?
sorry if I thing it wrong , but do the ECJ decision has to be `implemented` in to the UK law ? or Home Office worker (for example) will just always refer to EU law when making a decision of granting or rejecting a Permanent Residence Application ? And do he/she will be aware about ECJ decision in `Lounes` case ?
Thanks in advance .

[vinny]

Currently,

Decisions from the ECJ are binding on all courts in England & Wales.