Romanian Marrying a Syirian citizen in RO or the UK

[Epsilonn]

Thank you for all answers.

Now, long story short, to get her in Romania, with a simple visit visa, with a letter of intent where I explain our relationship and the fact that she coming there would help us building on our relationship + proof of everything we have had between each other so far would get the people from the Immigrations Office in Romania (in your opinion) to approve the visit???

And I love her, I don't choose the way of my heart. I start talking to her after I broke up with my ex, which was Romanian living in the UK... and my current girlfriend from the other side of the world helped me get over everythiing I felt bad in my life... it is just like that. And we talked and texted each other every single day for almost a year for even several hours a day!!!

In Romania normally I would be responsible if anything goes wrong... this is what that type of visit visa declaration requires there in RO.

Because, access for Syria might have been blacklisted, but not blocked, right??

Also, do you have experience with people like me and my girlfriend having succeeded in any way?

I am very positive and I have patience and I am not rushing anywhere. What do I baically do to show that our relationship is basically genuine and make people of Romania, in this case, to get over the fact that she is Syrian, and let her come to visit me there on the grounds of building our relationship even further?

I can also meet her in Beirut in the future in any case to have more proof. Would that do any good??

[tmonaghan]

The problem here is that you are asking on this Forum for ways to circonvent Immigration Laws with the intend to create the living conditions of a genuine unmarried couple's life to enter the UK. If you want to live lawfully in the UK with your other half; start by marrying your partner. As it was previously said you'll have a better chance to live with your girlfriend in Romania. Your are in love with someone you met on the Internet and have been chatting for a year and met her once for a week; that is not enough. If you feel so strongly about her; I am sure that relocating to Romania will only be a simple formality. The “Surinder Singh” route must also exist for Romanian Citizens to bring their NON-EU Spouses into Romania to circonvent Romania immigration laws. Abuse requires the accuser to prove both that the rules for a right are not really met and that there was a deliberate intention artificially to make it appear as if the rules were satisfied. For the “Surinder Singh” route to work you would have lived in Syria and then moved to another EU Member State for a while. And show evidence that you lived there long enough with your wife not to raise suspicions when the Home Office Caseworkers are processing your application to bring your wife into the UK under EU Immigration Laws. Unless I am mistaken, the rules have changed to make it difficult for a National of a Member State to bring their NON-EU Citizen back home. The tightened requirements would be that for the “Surinder Singh” route to work, you would have met your NON-EU Citizen in another EU Member State during the time that you spent living there and married before you can return to your Home Country. The “Surinder Singh” loophole will be closed once the UK leaves the UK. Which means that thereafter British Citizens would have no other route but to apply under UK Immigration Laws. So your better chance would be to relocate to Romania and to buildup up enough evidence that both of you have been married long enough for it to constitute a genuine relationship before you apply for her to move with you to the UK. You are best advised to consult a good Solicitor to make sure that when you apply for your partner to come into the UK; it is so in compliance with the Law for the avoidance of a refusal.

[tmonaghan]

Sorry, I was meant to say the following: And show evidence that you lived there long enough with your wife not to raise suspicions when the Romania's Home Office Caseworkers are processing your application to bring your wife into Romania under EU Immigration Laws.

[Epsilonn]

Ok I understand but I don't qualify for 'Surinder Singh'.

I have two choices.

1. To get her to Romania first and foremost under a simple Visit Visa and then spend some time with her there (up to 90 days she is allowed to stay there) to do all we need to do, from marriage to obtaining a residence permit. Then I see about getting her into the UK. Because all I need right now is to see her safe, out of Syria, and into Romania, where I can be with her physically and where we can start processing other paperwork.

2. Based on your experience, can I get married in any other country but RO or UK? In Lebanon I have no residence. Is there a way to get married without the need of having residence in the country you get married in?

[Casa]

You mention earlier in this thread that you are Christian and I assume that your fiancee is Muslim. You should be aware that although you don't need residence in Lebanon, a Christian man is not permitted to marry a Muslim woman there or in any other Muslim country unless they convert to Islam before the marriage.


As there are no civil marriages in Lebanon many inter-faith couples choose to marry in Cyprus.

[Richard W]

Marriages of convenience only apply to marriages (or durable relationships) between EU citizens and non-EU nationals; a marriage between an EU citizen and a non-EU citizen who does not have a regular residence status is per definition a marriage of convenience; and a marriage between an EU citizen and a non-EU citizen is automatically connected with abuse and fraud.

Lady Hale, speaking in a Supreme court judgement, says this assertion is completely wrong. See the thread Spring change to the Definition of Marriage Convenience. The judgement is given in the second link in Vinny's post of 27 July 2017.

What is true is that suspicions will be raised. So, if Epsilonn does marry his sweetheart, the secretary of state may lawfully order his expulsion. However, he may successfully appeal.

[Richard W]

You mention earlier in this thread that you are Christian and I assume that your fiancee is Muslim.

It's not as certain as one might think. Syria is 11 or 12% Christian (Aleppo has a relatively high percentage), and half of those are 'Greek' Orthodox, just as the OP is most likely to be.

[Casa]

You mention earlier in this thread that you are Christian and I assume that your fiancee is Muslim.

It's not as certain as one might think. Syria is 11 or 12% Christian (Aleppo has a relatively high percentage), and half of those are 'Greek' Orthodox, just as the OP is most likely to be.

Which is why I am waiting for the OP to respond as to whether his fiancee is within the very small percentage of other faiths in Syria.
The OP is more likely to be of the autocephalous Romanian Orthodox church, not 'Greek'.

[Casa]

One problem may be your religions - are you fortunate enough to belong to the same denomination?

[/quote]

No, I am Christian... would that be a problem there? Would I need to get married at the Romanian Embassy? Because they stated that I need to be a resident there...[/quote]

Which led me to believe that the OP's fiancee is likely to be Muslim.

[Richard W]

Based on your experience, can I get married in any other country but RO or UK? In Lebanon I have no residence. Is there a way to get married without the need of having residence in the country you get married in?

As this is a general question, I will butt in. There are quite a few countries which offer weddings to overseas couples, and most of these marriages are valid. In Europe, Denmark, surprisingly, had a reputation as an easy place to marry, but I think you will face the visa problem in most countries. Tanzania looks like a possibility - it's visa on arrival for Syrians. Ecuador looks even easier. You will have to do the research - there may be hidden snags.

A lot of people are resorting to marriages by proxy, but there are many legal problems with the recognition of the marriages. Oddly enough, to my mind, the biggest issue to address is whether Romania will recognise whatever marriage you manage to achieve.

[Richard W]

The OP is more likely to be of the autocephalous Romanian Orthodox church, not 'Greek'.

Whence the scare quotes. So far as I can tell, the Romanian and Antiochian Orthodox Churches are in full communion, even though they seem to overlap territorially, e.g. in the UK.

[Epsilonn]

One problem may be your religions - are you fortunate enough to belong to the same denomination?

No, I am Christian... would that be a problem there? Would I need to get married at the Romanian Embassy? Because they stated that I need to be a resident there...[/quote]

Which led me to believe that the OP's fiancee is likely to be Muslim. [/quote]

She is 'Zoroastrian'. Would that work with a Christian guy like me?

[Epsilonn]

Based on your experience, can I get married in any other country but RO or UK? In Lebanon I have no residence. Is there a way to get married without the need of having residence in the country you get married in?

As this is a general question, I will butt in. There are quite a few countries which offer weddings to overseas couples, and most of these marriages are valid. In Europe, Denmark, surprisingly, had a reputation as an easy place to marry, but I think you will face the visa problem in most countries. Tanzania looks like a possibility - it's visa on arrival for Syrians. Ecuador looks even easier. You will have to do the research - there may be hidden snags.

A lot of people are resorting to marriages by proxy, but there are many legal problems with the recognition of the marriages. Oddly enough, to my mind, the biggest issue to address is whether Romania will recognise whatever marriage you manage to achieve.

My mind is spinning right now. Would you suggest I get Visa for Tanzania or Ecuador for both of us and we get married there? And they don't care of having residence there in order to issue a marriage certificate there? And also I should investigate on how my country, Romania, accepts this kind of document??

[Epsilonn]

Marriages of convenience only apply to marriages (or durable relationships) between EU citizens and non-EU nationals; a marriage between an EU citizen and a non-EU citizen who does not have a regular residence status is per definition a marriage of convenience; and a marriage between an EU citizen and a non-EU citizen is automatically connected with abuse and fraud.

Lady Hale, speaking in a Supreme court judgement, says this assertion is completely wrong. See the thread Spring change to the Definition of Marriage Convenience. The judgement is given in the second link in Vinny's post of 27 July 2017.

What is true is that suspicions will be raised. So, if Epsilonn does marry his sweetheart, the secretary of state may lawfully order his expulsion. However, he may successfully appeal.

What do you actually mean by 'expulsion' in this context?

[Richard W]

My mind is spinning right now. Would you suggest I get Visa for Tanzania or Ecuador for both of us and we get married there? And they don't care of having residence there in order to issue a marriage certificate there? And also I should investigate on how my country, Romania, accepts this kind of document??

Matrimony is not by any to be enterprised, nor taken in hand, unadvisedly, lightly, or wantonly, to satisfy men's carnal lusts and appetites, like brute beasts that have no understanding; but reverently, discreetly, advisedly, soberly, and in the fear of God; duly considering the causes for which Matrimony was ordained.

There's quite a business nowadays in overseas weddings; it's even the backdrop to a current mobile phone advert. However, do check on the visa issues and on the requirements for weddings. Thailand's in this market, but the Anglo-Lao marriage for the couple in Thailand fell foul of the requirement for Laos to confirm that the marriage was acceptable. You might hit a similar problem with Syria. Zoroastrians don't seem to welcome mixed faith marriages, and you'd be no better off if the occasional confusion of Yezidis and Zoroastrians has happened.

From looking at reports of UK immigration tribunal proceedings, it actually matters whether Romania considers the marriage valid. That sort of thing also turns up with Spain questioning the validity of Anglo-Thai marriages celebrated in Thailand, which causes a problem because the UK doesn't really have a process for formally recognising a foreign marriage.

[Epsilonn]

I understand what you are saying. Basically I will invite my girlfriend to RO in a visit visa and we take it from there. I will make a solid portfolio etc... What else can I do?

Would it matter to the application if we knew each other for longer than one year?

As far os other extreme go, and this is very important, how can someone like me, from Romania, marry with someone like my girlfriend, from Syria, in another country like Thailand or Ecuador or Tanzania I hear other people where we can both go without visa?

How can we marry there without residence there?

[Richard W]

What do you actually mean by 'expulsion' in this context?

If you read the legal judgement referenced from the thread I referenced, you will see that the SSHD decided under Regulation 23(6)(c) to remove the would-be wife, who had PR, from the UK, the justification being that the SSHD had reasonable grounds to suspect she had attempted to abuse the right of residence by contracting a marriage of convenience with an overstayer Regulation 26(3).

As far os other extreme go, and this is very important, how can someone like me, from Romania, marry with someone like my girlfriend, from Syria, in another country like Thailand or Ecuador or Tanzania I hear other people where we can both go without visa?

Some countries have very short residence requirements for marriage. In particular, they can easily be satisfied during the course of a normal holiday. I did that when I married my wife in Thailand.

[Epsilonn]

Yes I read all that. It is indeed harsh... but really I don't know what to do anymore. Before going ahead with Romania, I need to know my choices.

Wow, so you married in Thailand. But what can you say about me and my girlfriend. I see that there is a Syrian Consulate in Bangkok there for her. I will call tomorrow.

I hope it still exists... But what do you think of this? In the end, is that marriage going to be recognised in both RO and the UK. I hear and read about peaple in my situation having done so and it turned out ok...

Thank you so much for your time and advice so far!

What is your professional opinion on this, hopefully, last thing I need to know? Because there will be others to do, but I just need to start with something and also have some backup plan, you understand...

[Casa]

Yes I read all that. It is indeed harsh... but really I don't know what to do anymore. Before going ahead with Romania, I need to know my choices.

Wow, so you married in Thailand. But what can you say about me and my girlfriend. I see that there is a Syrian Consulate in Bangkok there for her. I will call tomorrow.

I hope it still exists... But what do you think of this? In the end, is that marriage going to be recognised in both RO and the UK. I hear and read about peaple in my situation having done so and it turned out ok...

Thank you so much for your time and advice so far!

What is your professional opinion on this, hopefully, last thing I need to know? Because there will be others to do, but I just need to start with something and also have some backup plan, you understand...

Member RW isn't giving you professional advice, it's his personal opinion.

[Epsilonn]

I understand. But, in short, would a marriage cerificate in Thailand work for Romania or the UK?

[Richard W]

I understand. But, in short, would a marriage cerificate in Thailand work for Romania or the UK?

These marriages, which are registrations at a government office, work for Britons and are recognised by the British government. I can't confirm that they are recognised by the Romanian government for Romanian citizens. However, read the Romanian embassy's Căsătoria în Thailanda (Marriage in Thailand) for yourself. I can't work out how much of a problem if any you would have.

Your girlfriend would need a visa for Thailand, so I didn't suggest Thailand for you. It also looks as though consular services are rather limited at the moment!

[Epsilonn]

Hello,

But in order for her to apply for visa to Thailand, she would normally have to visit the nearest embassy of Thailand, right? Whihc is in Beirut, Lebanon?

[ribena]

There are other countries that you and your gf can go to (get married) without having to apply for visa prior to visit.

You can't really just rock up in a country and get married... some country would need to see proof that both of you are single etc. So you might need to get paperwork done prior to the trip. So, do your research well.
(from personal experience)

try googling countries-syrians-can-travel-without-visa. Worth expanding the options?

PS: bear in mind also that if you decided to get married in a country that English isn't their language, you'd need to get the marriage certificate translated to English and the cost of it too.

[Epsilonn]

Yes we can both go to Ecuador for instance. But I need to be resident there in order to get married at the Embassy.

Should I do this at the Embassy? Is there a country that does not require any of us to be residency in order for the marriage to be performed?

[ribena]

Yes we can both go to Ecuador for instance. But I need to be resident there in order to get married at the Embassy.

Should I do this at the Embassy? Is there a country that does not require any of us to be residency in order for the marriage to be performed?

Are you able to fulfil the residency requirement there? You'd need to find out.

In some countries you only need to be present at the country x days before you are allowed to married.
I dont know about getting married in embassy .. but some are simply conducted in the likes of their country National Registration office. So it depends on which country works best for both of you and research from there. Every country has their own requirement/s for foreigners's marriage.