Questions EU immigration Norway

[nkristian805]

Hello!

I am a Norwegian national and my wife is from Asia. We moved from Norway to Denmark in January 2017, me as an EU/EEA-national and my wife as a family member, as self sufficient funded (with enough money so as to not to be a liability for the Danish welfare state). Coming to Denmark, my wife did not need a private health insurance. Getting a residence permit in Denmark was unproblematic.

Soon we are moving back to Norway, and we wish to stay there under the EU/EEA-laws as self sufficient funded, with my wife as an accompanying family member. There is a list of demands put forward by the Norwegian immigration authorities, and I hoped someone here could answer some questions in that regard, even if on a more general basis (as the EU/EEA-laws in theory are supposed to be practiced the same across all EU/EEA-countries).

First of all, Norwegian immigration authorities says that when a Norwegian national has exercised his/her right as an EEA-national in another EU-country as self sufficient funded, the immigration authorities should heavily emphasize whether the Norwegian national has been econimically active, when determining whether or not the stay has been real and genuine. To be economically active, as far as I have understood, is defined as being employed and working. Furthermore, this work must not be of a "bagatelle character" (pardon my English). I find it hard to understand that I am required to work in Denmark when I am staying here as self sufficient, so 1) does the EU allow cases to be rejected on this basis? In any case, I have worked in Denmark for 3 months, with an average of 10 hours per week. Sometimes more, sometimes less. With this added piece of inormation, 2) would the amount of work I have put in be sufficient to be considered economically active?

Second, it is required that my wife has health insurance that covers all costs should she get sick or ill. We need: "Proof of health insurance for the applicant that includes all medical expenses covered by Norwegian legislation. The applicant must hold a private health insurance that is valid for at least one year. The health insurance must cover all medical expenses including medical and hospital treatment." I have checked Cigna and Bupa, for example, but I really have no idea what kind of health insurance is sufficient. 3) Does anyone have any experience with buying private health insurance, and any suggestions about what health insurance provider I should use to cover our needs?

Third, my wife has also worked in Denmark for 2.5 months, working 10-15 hours a week. 4) Should we inform the Norwegian immigration authorities about my wife's work in Denmark, will it strengthen our case?

Fourth, Norwegian immigration authorities say that if we have applied for a family reunification per the normal Norwegian laws (not EU-laws), and been rejected, that rejection should weigh against our EU-family immigration application. The idea is to prevent Norwegian nationals to circumvent national laws. So my next question is, 5) are the Norwegian immigration authorities allowed to do this?

Because me and my wife are both worried that we are going to run into problems, I would like to add the following information. We have lived, always together, in Denmark for 7-8 months. We have been renting a flat of 60 square meters at a very good price, with a proper contract, and without any end-date. We have had sufficient funds all along while staying in Denmark. I have rented out my own apartment in Norway almost for the entirety of our stay in Denmark. We have bank statements that show that we have been buying groceries etc. regularly in Denmark. We can show paid phone bills. We have both been registered as living here. We have both been working here for 2-3 months, albeit not very much. My motivation to move here has been easier access to source material on a paper I am writing. I feel like we have been doing everything by the book, so 6) do we have anything to worry about with our immigration case? The only things I can see that might be considered negative are: a) That we got a family reunification rejection per the normal Norwegian legislation; b) that our rent in Denmark has been cheaper than the norm; c) that we have not been working a lot in Denmark.

Sorry for the long post. I hope someone has the time to help ease our minds and give us some guideance. That would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time and all the best to you!

[gokulatti]

1) does the EU allow cases to be rejected on this basis?

As long as you can prove you have exercised treaty rights in Denmark, udi cannot refuse your application. As you said, you moved to Denmark as a self sufficient person, to qualify under that route you should have also taken insurance for both of you in Denmark (see below). If you want to qualify under "work" category you should have worked atleast 3 months (mandatory), but it is recommended for at least 6 months or the more the better so that it looks genuine to THEM but not mandatory.

2) would the amount of work I have put in be sufficient to be considered economically active?

The hours of work or even the pay does not matter as long as you did not rely on danish public funds.

3) Does anyone have any experience with buying private health insurance, and any suggestions about what health insurance provider I should use to cover our needs?

health care is provided by the state in Scandinavia for ALL RESIDENTS, if you have been there as a resident, which you should have been for the purpose of SS, you could get a copy of EHIC from denmark for you and spouse,
this is to be used for SS back in Norway to show you were self sufficient + insurance has been provided by denmark

4) Should we inform the Norwegian immigration authorities about my wife's work in Denmark, will it strengthen our case?

The status of your wife could come in handy IF you want to qualify under "work" since it could be argued that the subsistence from work from both of you was enough and as such you didn't rely on danish public funds. It doesn't matter where the subsistence comes from, you or her or both.

5) are the Norwegian immigration authorities allowed to do this? No they cannot, A refusal under EU law can only be based on public health/policy/security and marriage of convenience. A prior refusal under Norwegian law has no legal foothold on an application under EU law barring marriage of convenience.

6) do we have anything to worry about with our immigration case?

No, don't be worried, just make sure you are doing what you are doing, if you have proof for 7-8 months that is sufficient although if I were you I would push it to be a year in any case take every single documents you have in Denmark to prove you stay.

You can further read this https://www.freemovement.org.uk/surinde ... ion-route/ it is for UK SS, but the ECJ Ruling is binding all over EEA.

[nkristian805]

Huge thanks for your reply - for both easing our minds, clarifying some questions and providing a very useful read.

However, you say that since:

you moved to Denmark as a self sufficient person, to qualify under that route you should have also taken insurance for both of you in Denmark (see below).

I am not sure if I understand what you mean, my apologies. Neither of us had to buy any kind of private insurance when we came to Denmark. This is different from Norway, where the immigration authorities say that we need private health insurance. However, (and like I think you said) we both automatically got access to health care in Denmark as soon as our applications were approved. 1) We visited the doctor here a couple of times, so I am not sure if that is relying on Danish public funds? I sure hope that is not a slip-up and a problem from our side.

You also say that:

health care is provided by the state in Scandinavia for ALL RESIDENTS, if you have been there as a resident, which you should have been for the purpose of SS, you could get a copy of EHIC from denmark for you and spouse,
this is to be used for SS back in Norway to show you were self sufficient + insurance has been provided by denmark

Not sure whay you mean by "resident", but we both registered in the "people's register" here in Denmark and we got a social security number. 2) Is that what you mean? 3) And are you saying that EHIC, issued from Denmark, which we both have (and which we also submitted with our application to Norway), should be sufficient as a health insurance for Norwegian immigration authorities? I do not want to question you, but are you sure? I have specifically asked Norwegian immigration authorities about this and they say that EHIC from Denmark is not sufficient.

Again, thank you so much for taking the time to help us. It is of immense help!

[gokulatti]

-I will explain as clear as I can, When a EU national is exercising treaty rights in another member as "self sufficient person" say netherlands apart from self sufficiency (funds) they are also needed to have private health insurance in order to qualify as "self sufficiency" since Netherlands (or other similar MS) does not have healthcare provided by state. every person has to pay euros per months apart from certain exemptions. In the case of denmark, All residents including TCNs have state health care so there isn't a need to take our a separate health insurance, ofcourse it is only for residents, not visitors or for temporary stayers. The fact that you have registered and rented out and I expect you got something like a P number in denmark similar to norway makes you a resident and as well your spouse who should have had her RP by now.

Now, Since you are a resident in denmark, and the healthcare is provided by denmark you need to show your EHIC from denmark inorder to show udi that you were in effect a self sufficient person + insurance had been provided by the state in denmark (proof being EHIC from denmark). Since norway also has state healthcare, if you application is granted you will become a resident and healthcare will be provided by norway. Healthcare is provided free to every resident, you are not asking for it, so it is not considered public funds.

-Yes that's what I meant by "resident"
-Your danish EHIC will cover your healthcare in norway while your application is being processed, when granted norway will provided you healthcare as its resident.
-I had done this personally myself with my french partner although not through SS in norway, for the health insurance we supplied the french EHIC + the copy of the page from helfo.no
-The people on the phone MAY not be case worker, they just repeat what they see on the website/checklist.
-When you do go to the police to submit application they will accept the documents for the insurance.