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If you are applying on 21st August, you can do your payroll before that date and generate the payslips and FPS for the whole of September - there should be no issues with that.malishanTier1 wrote:Thank you Hina for your reply.
I would like to add the following information;
For the purpose of claiming points in job creation category, I have created 6 Jobs.
Job No. 1
Employee 1 = 12 Months, Part Time; 01 July, 2015- 30 June, 2016
Employee 2 = 12 Months, Part Time; 01 July, 2015 - 30 June, 2016
Can I combine Employee 1 and Employee 2 under one Job to claim points for one full time equivalent post?
Job No. 2
Employee 3 = 3 Months, Full Time; 01 July, 2015 - 30 September, 2016
Employee 4 = 6 Months, Full Time; 01 August, 2015 - 31 January, 2017
Employee 5 = 6 Months, Part Time; 01 January, 2017 - 30 June, 2017
Employee 6 = 6 Months, Part Time; 01 January, 2017 - 30 June, 2017
Can I combine Employee 3, Employee 4, Employee 5 and Employee 6 under one job to claim points for one full time equivalent post?
In Home Office guidance, it is not mention if the number of employees can be or can not be overlapped during the same time period for which points are claimed.
I highly appreciate a quick response from the professionals.
Thank you
I am in the same boat too with one of my employees. 12months is 31st August. Does your visa expire on the 21st of August?malishanTier1 wrote:Hi.
I have started my PAYE period from 01 September, 2016 and am going to apply for my visa on the 21st of August, 2017.
I have created 2 full time posts for which I am claiming points by joining different jobs of different lengths.
The problem is my 12 months are going to be completed on the 31st of August. Do you think there is going to be any problem since I am applying on the 21st of August and claiming for the month of August as my 12th Month?
I have called HMRC and have inquired about it to say if I could pay my employees earlier and can submit their RTI. They have no problem in paying employees or submitting RTI earlier then expected.
My only question is if the Home Office is going to have any problem with that?
Your views will be highly appreciated!
Hello marcnath,marcnath wrote:If you are applying on 21st August, you can do your payroll before that date and generate the payslips and FPS for the whole of September - there should be no issues with that.malishanTier1 wrote:Thank you Hina for your reply.
I would like to add the following information;
For the purpose of claiming points in job creation category, I have created 6 Jobs.
Job No. 1
Employee 1 = 12 Months, Part Time; 01 July, 2015- 30 June, 2016
Employee 2 = 12 Months, Part Time; 01 July, 2015 - 30 June, 2016
Can I combine Employee 1 and Employee 2 under one Job to claim points for one full time equivalent post?
Job No. 2
Employee 3 = 3 Months, Full Time; 01 July, 2015 - 30 September, 2016
Employee 4 = 6 Months, Full Time; 01 August, 2015 - 31 January, 2017
Employee 5 = 6 Months, Part Time; 01 January, 2017 - 30 June, 2017
Employee 6 = 6 Months, Part Time; 01 January, 2017 - 30 June, 2017
Can I combine Employee 3, Employee 4, Employee 5 and Employee 6 under one job to claim points for one full time equivalent post?
In Home Office guidance, it is not mention if the number of employees can be or can not be overlapped during the same time period for which points are claimed.
I highly appreciate a quick response from the professionals.
Thank you
I assume you are post April 2014, so the rules are quite strict. It has to be two JOBS, each lasting 12 months.
You Job 1 is ok, as long as the sum of the two employees hours is equal to or greater than 30 hrs every week.
For Job 2, I am assuming Employee 3 and 4 started in 2016, not 2015. You seem to have had Job 2 continuously for 1 year with at least one employee - so I don't see any issues.
I assume it is 30 September 2015malishanTier1 wrote: For Job 2, I have this situation;
Employee 3 which is Full Time has started on 01 July, 2015 and has left on 30 September, 2016.
Again, assume you mean January 2016.malishanTier1 wrote:During his 3 months of time period, another employee i.e. Employee 4 started as Full Time from 01 August, 2015 and has left on 31 January, 2017.
My interpretation of the current rule is that while there is no issue with having overlaps, you can only get points for one employee during the overlap period (max 30 hrs per week)malishanTier1 wrote:As you can see, there is an overlap which means two full time employees have at least worked together for two months together i.e. August and September 2015.
My strict interpretation of the rule/guidelines is that you can no longer combine full time and part time in a single job because it says the part-time jobs need to have lasted 12 months each.malishanTier1 wrote:This second employee Employee 4 continued to work until the end of January, 2015 and he is being joined by two part time employees i.e. Employee 5 and Employee 6 which have started working from 1 January 2016 till 30 June 2016. Which also means that in the month of January, there were 3 employees under one job (1 as full time and 2 as part time). Together, these four employees i.e. Employee 3, Employee 4, Employee 5 and Employee 6 have worked to make one equivalent full time post of 12 continuous months.
So, can I combine Employee 3, Employee 4, Employee 5 and Employee 6 under one job to claim points for one full time equivalent post of 12 continuous months?
Yes, the HO does not talk about overlapped employees, but it does not say it is not allowed (it would be unreasonable if they did), so overlap on its own should be ok. But it is clear you will not get credit for it as they maximum hours per week is 30 for any job.malishanTier1 wrote:In Home Office guidance, it is not mention if the number of employees can be or can not be overlapped during the same time period for which points are claimed.
marcnath wrote:malishanTier1 wrote: For Job 2, I have this situation;
Employee 3 which is Full Time has started on 01 July, 2015 and has left on 30 September, 2016.Yes September, 2015I assume it is 30 September 2015
malishanTier1 wrote:During his 3 months of time period, another employee i.e. Employee 4 started as Full Time from 01 August, 2015 and has left on 31 January, 2017.Yes January, 2016Again, assume you mean January 2016.
My interpretation of the current rule is that while there is no issue with having overlaps, you can only get points for one employee during the overlap period (max 30 hrs per week)malishanTier1 wrote:As you can see, there is an overlap which means two full time employees have at least worked together for two months together i.e. August and September 2015.
My strict interpretation of the rule/guidelines is that you can no longer combine full time and part time in a single job because it says the part-time jobs need to have lasted 12 months each.malishanTier1 wrote:This second employee Employee 4 continued to work until the end of January, 2015 and he is being joined by two part time employees i.e. Employee 5 and Employee 6 which have started working from 1 January 2016 till 30 June 2016. Which also means that in the month of January, there were 3 employees under one job (1 as full time and 2 as part time). Together, these four employees i.e. Employee 3, Employee 4, Employee 5 and Employee 6 have worked to make one equivalent full time post of 12 continuous months.
So, can I combine Employee 3, Employee 4, Employee 5 and Employee 6 under one job to claim points for one full time equivalent post of 12 continuous months?
But it is not 100% clear. The rule is written badly so I am sure there will be a legal dispute on it.
I also personally think not allowing combination of FT and PT within one job is unreasonable and the rule contradictions can be used by the CW to still allow it.
Unfortunately, we will not know unless someone like you apply and they make a decision.
Yes, the HO does not talk about overlapped employees, but it does not say it is not allowed (it would be unreasonable if they did), so overlap on its own should be ok. But it is clear you will not get credit for it as they maximum hours per week is 30 for any job.malishanTier1 wrote:In Home Office guidance, it is not mention if the number of employees can be or can not be overlapped during the same time period for which points are claimed.
You have no other option at this point in time anyway, except to combine FT and PT and apply.
It becomes quite complex how you will indicate it in the application form and you have to clearly indicate what jobs are combined - which means (to me) that you have to fill in the form as 4 Jobs. Employee 1 and Employee 2 will be Job 1 and Job 2 and they can be shown to be combined - so that's easy.
Do you mean this;If I were in your place, I would then enter Job 3 and Job 4, put the FT employees in both and 1 PT employee in Job 3 and the other in Job 4.
Job No. 3
Job Title: Manager
Date Post Created:
01/07/2015
If this job is being combined with another job to make equivalent of 1 full time job, indicate which job
: 4
Employee 3 - 01/07/2015 - 01/07/2015 TILL 30/09/2015 - FULL TIME
Employee 4 - 01/08/2015 - 01/10/2015 TILL 31/01/2016 - FULL TIME
Employee 5 - 01/01/2016 - 01/01/2016 TILL 30/06/2016 - PART TIME
Job No. 4
Job Title: Manager
Date Post Created:
01/07/2015
If this job is being combined with another job to make equivalent of 1 full time job, indicate which job
: 3
Employee 3 - 01/07/2015 - 01/07/2015 TILL 30/09/2015 - FULL TIME
Employee 4 - 01/08/2015 - 01/10/2015 TILL 31/01/2016 - FULL TIME
Employee 6 - 01/01/2016 - 01/01/2016 TILL 30/06/2016 - PART TIME
But, Don't you think the information is repetitive here?
Can you please illustrate or show me how should I fill in these two jobs i.e. Job 3 and Job 4 with employees 3, 4, 5 and 6? It would be really really grateful of you.
That way it meets the requirement that both jobs have lasted 12 months (which is mandatory) and if I get rejected, I could argue that the FT employees were working 50% of their time on each job. I can't see how HO could argue that with me.
Unfortunately, you will be one of the test cases of the new guidelines being used - and it is never easy to be the guinea pig.
Anyway, good luck with your application and I look forward to the result. I am fairly confident it will be successful and HO will revise their guidelines as they start facing these cases.
Thank you very much for your quick response. I hope you do see that while preparing the table like this Employee 5 as part time is not working with any full time employee. Also for Job 4, should I do like this if I follow your suggestion;marcnath wrote:Yes, it is repetitive.
As I said, I don't think HO has thought through all the implications of the change in their guidelines.
So, there is going to no one correct way of doing it and everyone will have to guess what is best until HO clarifies it better.
It is an odd way of filling that table, but that is exactly how I would do it as it meets what I consider the critical condition - you can only combine jobs that have each lasted for 12 months.
I would also change it slightly to:
Employee 3 - 01/07/2015 - 01/07/2015 TILL 30/09/2015 - FULL TIME
Employee 4 - 01/10/2015 - 01/10/2015 TILL 31/01/2016 - FULL TIME
Employee 5 - 01/02/2016 - 01/01/2016 TILL 30/06/2016 - PART TIME
As I mentioned, this is a new area and I think the guidelines are not very clear. I expect them to be updated once HO starts getting applications under the updated guidelines.malishanTier1 wrote: Thank you very much for your quick response. I hope you do see that while preparing the table like this Employee 5 as part time is not working with any full time employee. Also for Job 4, should I do like this if I follow your suggestion;
Job No 4
Employee 3 - 01/07/2015 - 01/07/2015 TILL 30/09/2015 - FULL TIME
Employee 4 - 01/10/2015 - 01/10/2015 TILL 31/01/2016 - FULL TIME
Employee 6 - 01/02/2016 - 01/01/2016 TILL 30/06/2016 - PART TIME
Or there is no need to show Job 4?
Can I not do this just make one job and add all of 3, 4, 5 and employee 6 under one job. Show 2 as full time and the other two as part time? Like this
Job No 3
Marketing Manager
Employee 3 - 01/07/2015 - 01/07/2015 TILL 30/09/2015 -
FULL TIME
Employee 4 - 01/10/2015 - 01/10/2015 TILL 31/01/2016 - FULL TIME
Employee 5 - 01/02/2016 - 01/01/2016 TILL 30/06/2016 - PART TIME
Employee 6 - 01/02/2016 - 01/01/2016 TILL 30/06/2016 - PART TIME
Your suggestions are helping me a lot. Looking forward to hear from you. Thank you
Don't understand this.malishanTier1 wrote:Also, this will sort the 12 month criteria - but this
will mean my hours wont be complete due to
part time worker?
should you add employee 6 as well under employee 5
So that i dont have hour issue as well
Please let me know.
Thank you very much
Job No. 1marcnath wrote:Don't understand this.malishanTier1 wrote:Also, this will sort the 12 month criteria - but this
will mean my hours wont be complete due to
part time worker?
should you add employee 6 as well under employee 5
So that i dont have hour issue as well
Please let me know.
Thank you very much
Check if my latest reply helped.
Else please clarify your question
Thank you very much Marcnath for your suggestions and helping me out all this way. I am submitting my case today and will update this board if there would be any movement.marcnath wrote:As I said, that is exactly how I would do my application.
There is no way of saying if it is right or wrong, but doing it that way at least meets (on paper) the requirements as specified in the guidelines - i.e. if you are combining two jobs, they should each last 12 months.
I would not be surprised if HO came back with questions as this is not a straightforward case. You just need to be prepared to explain why you did it this way - which is that it is your best understanding of meeting the 12 month criteria.
Go ahead and include the payslips and FPS for all months (I think I recommended differently before). Again, I am suggesting that so that you can have additional arguments if it ever comes to AR and you can't send those documents for an AR.
Good luck with your application - I sincerely think you should be all right.