1st. Admin Review Refused Tier 1 Enterpreneur Extensions 2nd. Admin Review Help

[Bhavin002]

Dear All,
My Tier 1 Entrepreneur Extensions was refused with allowing for administrative review. The reason for this Is:
We accept that you have created one full time paid job for Mr... Employee 1 as an engineer. You have provided evidence of a second employee Mr... Employee 2, however the evidence can not be accepted as he has the same job title as Mr... Employee 1 which is not accepted to create another job. No evidence of an employee with a different job title has been provided to create the second full time paid job.

In guidance, they never mentioned, the two jobs must be different

Thanks in advance.

[heyaheya]

if u give bit background of ur status when u applied for ur initial application ... experts will be able to guide u accordingly...

good luck with ur AR

[tarun_shreeji]

Can you please share your time line ,
When you apply , bio metric , Complex issue letter and when you recive dicision.
Thanks

[Bhavin002]

I have received rejected letter on 20th. Aug. I have now two days to deal with Administrative review. I have shown two full time employment they confirm only one full time employment due to same job title.
My argument is they both have separate skills and job. I didn't see anywhere to describe their job description etc. all other points they have awarded but they haven't awarded two full time job creation points. so, it fell under refusal.

[marcnath]

Dear All,
My Tier 1 Entrepreneur Extensions was refused with allowing for administrative review. The reason for this Is:
We accept that you have created one full time paid job for Mr... Employee 1 as an engineer. You have provided evidence of a second employee Mr... Employee 2, however the evidence can not be accepted as he has the same job title as Mr... Employee 1 which is not accepted to create another job. No evidence of an employee with a different job title has been provided to create the second full time paid job.

In guidance, they never mentioned, the two jobs must be different

Thanks in advance.

That seems to be a new one.

And if HO is going to take this stance, I can see that quite a few others will have problems.

The job title is possibly there in the Payslip or FPS documents. The application form also requires you to put the job title.

1. Are you pre or post April 2014 ?
2. Were the two employees hired one after the other or were they working at the same time.

[marcnath]

I have received rejected letter on 20th. Aug. I have now two days to deal with Administrative review. I have shown two full time employment they confirm only one full time employment due to same job title.
My argument is they both have separate skills and job. I didn't see anywhere to describe their job description etc. all other points they have awarded but they haven't awarded two full time job creation points. so, it fell under refusal.

This definitely seems to be a strange argument.

I can't see how the argument that it is the same job title can hold up in a review.

If the two people were hired one after the other, then HO can argue that it is the one job for 24 months, which you will not get credit for if you are post April 2014 - is that your case ?

But still, I can't see the argument of Job Title holding up.

For your AR, make sure you make the argument as to why those two jobs are different.

[Bhavin002]

Thanks for the reply.
My initial application was after April 2014.

[Bhavin002]

I have two employees since November 2013 to continue working.
Employee 1 Full time through out the period.
Employee 2 Full time during 2015-2016 for more than 12 months and part time during other times.

Thanks,

[marcnath]

I have two employees since November 2013 to continue working.
Employee 1 Full time through out the period.
Employee 2 Full time during 2015-2016 for more than 12 months and part time during other times.

Thanks,

Ok. That should be easy to get overturned in AR then.

Bit of a pain, but I guess HO has some new internal guidelines which the CWs are learning and you are part of the learning curve, unfortunately.

You have demonstrably created two jobs of 12 months each.

All the best with your AR

[Bhavin002]

Thanks, Hopefully but finger crossed. Bloody Pain... been here for 8 years now and since struggling for visas in this country after investing £80,000 cash in the business and lot's of money for visas.

[moongesture]

Dear All,
My Tier 1 Entrepreneur Extensions was refused with allowing for administrative review. The reason for this Is:
We accept that you have created one full time paid job for Mr... Employee 1 as an engineer. You have provided evidence of a second employee Mr... Employee 2, however the evidence can not be accepted as he has the same job title as Mr... Employee 1 which is not accepted to create another job. No evidence of an employee with a different job title has been provided to create the second full time paid job.

In guidance, they never mentioned, the two jobs must be different

Thanks in advance.

Nothing to worry about as it will be overturned in admin review. This may be the judgmental error, Job title is not a valid requirement but for you, it must be An Equivalent of 2 full-time jobs for at least 12 months.

[sassybee]

@Bhavin002,

I can relate with the situation of having 2 separate full time jobs with the same job title. I really think there is a strong chance the decision will be overturned in AR if you are able to argue the fact that workload required 2 engineers not one. It could be 2 engineers working on 2 separate projects for 2 separate clients.

Also say you are running a restaurant business will HO reject an application if you have created 2 full time CHEF jobs or 2 full time WAITERS jobs.

I think you can have 2 full time jobs with the same title if workload cannot be fulfilled by one full time job. You need to justify where you needed to employ two full time engineers.

Wish you all the best in AR and fingers crossed decision will be over turned.

[Bhavin002]

Thank you all for your positive and quick replies. You are stars.

[QSDanik]

Hello Bhavin
Sorry to hear that, we wish your AR will change the decision.
I am going to apply in End of October and I have two Marketing assistants ( one for Kent and One for London areas, same title for 2 employee full time I have one part time for administrative assistant, but I am going to claim point of employment on 2 jobs ,title Marketing assistant.
Your post also made me worried.
Seniors, Please guid how to present this situation to CW to avoid the refusal.

[kkkTier1]

@ Bhavin002- good luck with your admin review.

Could you share your timeline please.

[marcnath]

Hello Bhavin
Sorry to hear that, we wish your AR will change the decision.
I am going to apply in End of October and I have two Marketing assistants ( one for Kent and One for London areas, same title for 2 employee full time I have one part time for administrative assistant, but I am going to claim point of employment on 2 jobs ,title Marketing assistant.
Your post also made me worried.
Seniors, Please guid how to present this situation to CW to avoid the refusal.

Given this new approach, there are a few things people can and should do.
1. Try to ensure there are no job titles in the payslips/FPS
2. Or Make sure you have different job titles - Marketing Assistant - Kent and and Marketing Assistant - London in the case above - and use that in all documentation.
3. Most importantly, in your application form, use the different Job title - even if is Marketing Assistant 1 and Marketing Assistant 2.

The last point is the most important - if that is not done, HO can claim that a maximum of 30 hrs per week is applied for a job and so they ignore one. It is not an argument that I think will hold up, but maybe the reason for the rejection.

Those who have been rejected can confirm if they listed the same Job title for Job 1 and Job 2 in the application form.

[QSDanik]

Thanks Marcnath
My Salary Slips does not job titles, I will have a look if it shows on RTI and other documents. Thanks again

[sm12]

Thanks Marcnath
My Salary Slips does not job titles, I will have a look if it shows on RTI and other documents. Thanks again

I think you must have provided job titles on the application form? They must have got the titles from there.

[rahul190]

Please clarify point

1. Two full time jobs
- full time job 1
employee 1 job title X,
left employee 2 job title X
Left employee 3 job title X

-full time job 2
Employee 1 job title x throughout whole period

(Job title X means same job title for all above mentioned employees)

After reading whole forum, please advise that above mentioned situation is an issue for HO?

[marcnath]

Please clarify point

1. Two full time jobs
- full time job 1
employee 1 job title X,
left employee 2 job title X
Left employee 3 job title X

-full time job 2
Employee 1 job title x throughout whole period

(Job title X means same job title for all above mentioned employees)

After reading whole forum, please advise that above mentioned situation is an issue for HO?

What did you fill in for the Job Title in the Application (Table 3b2) ?

[rahul190]

Cashier as job title

[marcnath]

Cashier as job title

Ok. So if you are post April 2014, it looks like HO is taking an unreasonable view on this. So, you need to be prepared for a possible rejection.

There must be some reason why you need two cashiers - is it because you need them for two different shifts or because your business volume is large enough to need two of them to handle it.

If it is the former, then the Job Titles can be Cashier-shift1 and Cashier-shift2. Otherwise Just Cashier1 and Cashier2.

While I think those rejections reported so far will get overturned in AR, if you want you can always do the correction above, update the Table 3B2 and send it in with a covering letter explaining that it is two separate jobs and the reason why.

Difficult to say if the two rejections were an exception or is a new HO approach - so up to you whether you want to do it or not.

[rahul190]

It can be explained for having one job title as business have big turnover which can be identified by final accounts

And job title(cashier) has breakdown in 2 full time jobs with few employees

[marcnath]

It can be explained for having one job title as business have big turnover which can be identified by final accounts

And job title(cashier) has breakdown in 2 full time jobs with few employees

I think it should not be a problem - but just be prepared for the hassle of a rejection followed by AR. I doubt if HO will be able to justify rejection based on same job title but unfortunately, nothing stops them from trying

[rahul190]

Yeah will do, appreciate your help, thank you