Urgent Hep - Job Creation

[arnomarga]

Hi,

I am going to apply for Extension next month and little confused about the 2 jobs rules.

In last 3 years I have employed 4 part time employees as follows:

Employee 1 = 23 months (resigned)
Employee 2 = 16 months (active)
Employee 3 = 16 months (active)
Employee 4 = 5 months (resigned)

Am I fulfilling the requirements for 2 Jobs Creation?

I have invested in an existing business and when I taken over the company in 2014, I hired an employee but I did 1 month before I appointed as a director and that employee is still working for us.

Do you think I can also use that employee for my extension application?

I would be very grateful if you guys could give me some advice.

Thanks

[sm12]

Do you mean one of the four employees is from before you became director?

When are you applying?

[arnomarga]

hi sm12,

No he is the 5th one which I hired a month before I become the director of the company but I was actively working for the company.

I am applying next month.

[arnomarga]

Just to clarify the dates of employment:

Employee 1: Apr 2015 to Feb 2017 = 23 months
Employee 2: Jun 2016 to Date = 16 months
Employee 3: Jun 2016 to Date = 16 months
Employee 4: Mar 2017 to Aug 2017 = 6 months

I would appreciate if zimba88 could input here. thanks

[sm12]

Just to clarify the dates of employment:

Employee 1: Apr 2015 to Feb 2017 = 23 months
Employee 2: Jun 2016 to Date = 16 months
Employee 3: Jun 2016 to Date = 16 months
Employee 4: Mar 2017 to Aug 2017 = 6 months

I would appreciate if zimba88 could input here. thanks

I understand they worked part time, but how many hours per week did they work?

Also, I think you can only claim for employees who became a part of your business after you became a director.

[arnomarga]

17 hours a week.

[marcnath]

Just to clarify the dates of employment:

Employee 1: Apr 2015 to Feb 2017 = 23 months
Employee 2: Jun 2016 to Date = 16 months
Employee 3: Jun 2016 to Date = 16 months
Employee 4: Mar 2017 to Aug 2017 = 6 months

I would appreciate if zimba88 could input here. thanks

Did you apply before or after April 2014 ?
If you are pre 2014 and you were a Director before Apr 2015, then this will satisfy your requirements.
However if you are post 2014, this will not.

[arnomarga]

After April 2014.

[marcnath]

After April 2014.

Ok. So the rules are clear that you can only combine two part-time jobs if both have lasted for 12 months each.
So, Employee 4 cannot be combines with any other job, which means you have only one full time job as of now. Sorry.

[marcnath]

You said YOU hired one employee 1 month before you were appointed as a Director.

Can you explain the circumstances that led to that ? Had you already agreed on the purchase of the business, for example ?

Also, how many employees did the business have in the 12 months before you joined the business ? Are those employees still continuing ?

[zimba]

Am I fulfilling the requirements for 2 Jobs Creation?

No, as all 4 part time positions must exist for 12 months to be combined (post April 2014 applicants)

I have invested in an existing business and when I taken over the company in 2014, I hired an employee but I did 1 month before I appointed as a director and that employee is still working for us.
Do you think I can also use that employee for my extension application?

No. Any employee hired before you became a director will not count. Also your job creation must increase the NET positions in the company by at least TW. This means if 4 position existed before you became a director, then after you became a director the number of positions must remain 6 or above (net increase of two)

[awan905]

After April 2014.

After April 2014, you can only use minimum 2 employees(positions) working full time for 12 months each

[arnomarga]

Thanks marcnat and zimba!

I genuinely took over the business in April 2014(taken over the office) and became a director in May 2014. By the time I took the business there was only 1 director and he was the only employee. He resigned after I took the business.

I hired an employee as soon as I started over the business, I am not sure that his starting date was April 2014 or May 2014. My Accountant is on holiday and will be back next week so I will have to wait for him to check this employee joining date. By that time my accountant was using different software and he posted the salary slips which I am unable to find. I have asked that employee and he also does not know exact month.

Let suppose he started in May 2014, will I be able to use him with other 4 partimes employees?

[marcnath]

Thanks marcnat and zimba!

I genuinely took over the business in April 2014(taken over the office) and became a director in May 2014. By the time I took the business there was only 1 director and he was the only employee. He resigned after I took the business.

I hired an employee as soon as I started over the business, I am not sure that his starting date was April 2014 or May 2014. My Accountant is on holiday and will be back next week so I will have to wait for him to check this employee joining date. By that time my accountant was using different software and he posted the salary slips which I am unable to find. I have asked that employee and he also does not know exact month.

Let suppose he started in May 2014, will I be able to use him with other 4 partimes employees?

`

Yes, if he started in May 2014 (after you became the Director) you can use him.
Was the previous director on payroll ?
As you joined a business, you need to submit FPS for 12 months prior also. If he is on payroll, then it will show 1 employee 12 months before you joined.
Which means you need to have had three FT employees (2 additional).

[arnomarga]

Thanks marcnath!

Before I joined the business, previous director was on payroll for couple of years but I don't know exactly for how long and how much salary he was talking.

Is there any particular requirements for previous employment e.g Full-time or Part-time?

I am bit confused here, I know I need to show 2 full-time or 4 part times after I joined the business but what about the previous employment? There was only 1 employee and he was the director.

Can you kindly explain the above? thanks

[arnomarga]

If I could understand correctly as there was an employee(ex-director) before I joined the business so I will have to create 3 full-time or 6 part-time jobs?

I am not sure when the director was employed into his business. But I am sure he was not as employed when I joined the business.

As per guidance notes:

If you have taken over or joined a business that employed workers before you joined it, you
must provide the following documentation for the year immediately before the jobs were created
and the year that the jobs were created, showing the net increase in employment, which you
must sign and date:

[marcnath]

If I could understand correctly as there was an employee(ex-director) before I joined the business so I will have to create 3 full-time or 6 part-time jobs?

The way the rules are set up, you need to have a NET increase of two jobs. While the way HO measures that is not clear, given that they ask for the past 12 months, we can assume they will only look at that period.
So, if the previous director was on payroll (you need those documents anyway so you will be able to find out) for most of the previous 12 months, then you will need 3 FT or 6 PT jobs.
It is up to you to make the proper argument when you submit your application.
For example, if he was only employed for 6 months out of the previous 12, you can argue that previous employment was 0.5, so you need only 2.5 employees after you joined. Same argument for PT. If the previous director was parttime, then you need only 2 FT/4 PT Plus one more PT and so on.

[arnomarga]

Thanks so much marcnath!

When I joined the company and took the business I had seen some salary slips of ex director and never really bothered to look deeply. Yesterday I have spoken with ex-director and he confirmed that he was never on my company payroll. Actually he is also running another company and those salary slips are for that company.

I took all my previous files from storeroom and I was so relieved after looking those payslips and they are actually for his other company.

Now there is only problem about the employee who joined when I took the business. If he joined the same month as I became the director then all is good but what if he joined a month before I became a director? Can I get a letter from accountant that I was engaged in this business from that month?

Could anyone give me any strong point so I could argue in my application?

Thanks!

[marcnath]

Thanks so much marcnath!

When I joined the company and took the business I had seen some salary slips of ex director and never really bothered to look deeply. Yesterday I have spoken with ex-director and he confirmed that he was never on my company payroll. Actually he is also running another company and those salary slips are for that company.

I took all my previous files from storeroom and I was so relieved after looking those payslips and they are actually for his other company.

Now there is only problem about the employee who joined when I took the business. If he joined the same month as I became the director then all is good but what if he joined a month before I became a director? Can I get a letter from accountant that I was engaged in this business from that month?

Could anyone give me any strong point so I could argue in my application?

Thanks!

That makes thing easier. Since the company had no employees, you will not have FPS for the past 12 months, but will have to provide other evidence such as a P32 for that period. Or some evidence to show there were no employees in the 12 months before you joined (accountant letter, for example)

As for claiming points for your FT employee, I personally think HO will likely accept it, given that it is very clear it is your involvement that led to the hiring. But it is tough to be sure.

The guidelines state:
197. You can only use employment created when you were engaged in the business. If you joined an existing company as a director you may only submit employment created after you joined the company.
There is a bit of contradiction built into this clause, but you can definitely argue that you have been engaged in April. And that is how you should get the accountant to write the letter.

[marcnath]

After April 2014.

Ok. So the rules are clear that you can only combine two part-time jobs if both have lasted for 12 months each.
So, Employee 4 cannot be combines with any other job, which means you have only one full time job as of now. Sorry.

Just to add something on to this.

The rules are very clear that you need to have two FT equivalent jobs of 12 months each. There is a clear differentiation between jobs and employees throughout the immigration rules.

The way I read that, if I have an employee for 12 months as say a marketing manager, then I create a new job for a sales manager and appoint the same employee as a sales manager for the next 12 months, I have created 2 jobs of 12 months each and should meet the letter of the law.

In the job creation table, I would have two jobs of 12 months each.

Not sure if anyone has applied on this basis and have it approved.

You only specified the employees working periods, not the jobs they are doing. So, the point is that depending on the actual jobs the employees were involved in, you may have 4 PT jobs. But you know your business best.

[arnomarga]

Employee 1: Apr 2015 to Feb 2017 = 23 months
Employee 4: Mar 2017 to Aug 2017 = 6 months

I think I can combine above as 1 full-time job by doing below?

Job Title: Marketing Executive
Employee 1 = April 2015 to April 2016

Job Title: Sale Executive
Employee 1 = May 2016 to Feb 2017
Employee 4 = Mar 2017 to Aug 2017

What do you think marcnath?

[marcnath]

Employee 1: Apr 2015 to Feb 2017 = 23 months
Employee 4: Mar 2017 to Aug 2017 = 6 months

I think I can combine above as 1 full-time job by doing below?

Job Title: Marketing Executive
Employee 1 = April 2015 to April 2016

Job Title: Sale Executive
Employee 1 = May 2016 to Feb 2017
Employee 4 = Mar 2017 to Aug 2017

What do you think marcnath?

I personally think you can and I would be very interested in finding out if it will be accepted (and I am sure many others in this forum would be too)

But I have to emphasise that I am not qualified to give advice.

So, you need to make that decision yourself.

[arnomarga]

As per guidance:

The jobs must exist for at least 12 months. Within the same job, another worker can replace a
worker who is employed for part of a year and then leaves the job, so that the employment as a
whole adds up to 12 months. The hours of workers in 2 part-time jobs can be combined to add up to
30 hours a week or more and form the equivalent of one full-time job, as long as the 2 part-time jobs
exist for 12 months. We consider full-time to be 30 hours per week / 120 hours per month. Each job
will be assessed separately unless you indicate below that you wish to combine one job with another
job.

I think it is clear from above that within the same job another worker can replace a worker who is employed part of the year and then resigned?

as long as the 2 part-time jobs exist for 12 months

They never said that part time worker should be with the company for 12 months.

Am I translating correctly? zimba88 or marcnath can you please input your thoughts?

Thanks!

[zimba]

A POSITION is NOT restricted to an employee. An Employee can simply OCCUPY a position. Rules require you to create a POSITION which was OCCUPIED for total of 12 months, number of employees that covered the period does not matter

[arnomarga]

Many thanks zimba88 for your input.

Kindly advise if the following scenario will do the job creating requirements:

Employee 1: Apr 2015 to Feb 2017 = 23 months
Employee 2: Jun 2016 to Date = 16 months
Employee 3: Jun 2016 to Date = 16 months
Employee 4: Mar 2017 to Aug 2017 = 6 months

Job No: 1
Job Title: Job Title 1
Employee 1 = April 2015 to March 2016 (12 months part-time)

Job No: 1
Job Title: Job Title 2
Employee 2 = Jun 2016 to Jun 2017 (12 months part-time)

Job No: 2
Job Title: Job Title 3
Employee 1 = Apr 2016 to Feb 2017 (11 months part-time)
Employee 4 = Mar 2017 to Aug 2017 (6 months part-time)

Job No: 2
Job Title: Job Title 4
Employee 3 = Jun 2016 to Jun 2017 (12 months part-time)

Also last month I hired a full-time employee who is doing 35 hours per week. I am still waiting a reply from my accountant for the worker whose starting date is not confirmed. let suppose he started a month before I joined the business can this full-time employee cover the net increase in employment?

The worker whose starting date is not confirmed is still with me since last 3 years so I can show that he has done 3 different jobs in last 3 years lasted 12 months each?

I would greatly appreciate if senior gurus can help me.