I have Dual Citizenship -Wife non EU . 5 years Visa finishes ...

[reynaldogr]

reynaldogr : link is not working : `page not found`...
Yess .. Senior case worker would be nice ... but how to ensure that our applications will go to Senior case worker ? and not newly employed (or many years employed) robot ? anybody could advice ?

This is kind of lottery - if we don`t get our apps to the right person , then our apps will be rejected 100% just because of case worker incompetence .. THAT is worst problem in our case .

Of course The Home Office knows about ECJ decision in Lounes`because they should be aware about all the CJEU cases , its just f..ing robots sitting on `immigration adviser robohuman live answermacine` positions who keep repeating the same every time you call them : "WE ARE NOT AWARE about this".

Last time I called and asked the Lady said : "You can`t apply using EU rights if you are British citizen". But when I said: "wait wait (which mean: stop repeating your robotic words of what is written in your guidances) there was ECJ decision in November " - she then said : "You can apply if you want" ..
And that`s what I call incompetence and "f..ing robots" (as you call them reynaldogr - I like this name ,cause it is the best descripition we can find for them ))

That's why i would refer to the Lounes Case and put a printed copy of the full judgment when submitting my application. If my case falls into a robot's desk, at least that will lead them to revert back to a more senior case worker, before taking a decision.

moreover, this is writtin in all the case worker guidance i have seen:

"Contacts
If you have any questions about the guidance and your line manager or senior
caseworker cannot help you or you think that the guidance has factual errors then
email the Free Movement Policy team.
If you notice any formatting errors in this guidance (broken links, spelling mistakes
and so on) or have any comments about the layout or navigability of the guidance
then you can email the Guidance Rules and Forms team."

[mgb]

That's why i would refer to the Lounes Case and put a printed copy of the full judgment when submitting my application.

This is the right move. EU law is supreme.
The caseworker can than decide if he want to break the law or not.

[Unluckyeea2]

Hi mgb,
Yes you are right . It seems that they are under pressure to bring down migration target so just refuse people's rights who cann't fight legal battle .Now I came to know there are many people kicked out of country then came back again after long court battle .Really worried we are going to end up in courts . If refused and appeal delays and court date is after Brexit then what will happen really worried .Thanks for information . Keep updating please.

[chaoscontrol]

Hi mgb,
Yes you are right . It seems that they are under pressure to bring down migration target so just refuse people's rights who cann't fight legal battle .Now I came to know there are many people kicked out of country then came back again after long court battle .Really worried we are going to end up in courts . If refused and appeal delays and court date is after Brexit then what will happen really worried .Thanks for information . Keep updating please.

I suspect that UK Court should accept ECJ decision in Lounes even after Brexit cause the decision already been made in November 2017.

[Unluckyeea2]

Hi chaoscontorol ,thanks for updating . I am not sure atfer Brexit we can fight in courts this is most worrying thing if there is no more EEA law and how we .ca fight in courts . If dual national cases are include in Brexit withdrawal Agreement then is possible .main quistion is dual nationals or Lounes cases are protected or not in Brexit withdrawal Agreement . If the Brexit was not happening then we would have chance fight in courts with EEA law .So I am not wasting time when my families complete 5year to apply PR again if it will take time to court dates they are very long waiting everywhere in courts . Thanks .

[Unluckyeea2]

Hi chaoscontorol ,thanks for updating . I am not sure atfer Brexit we can fight in courts this is most worrying thing if there is no more EEA law and how we .ca fight in courts . If dual national cases are include in Brexit withdrawal Agreement then is possible .main quistion is dual nationals or Lounes cases are protected or not in Brexit withdrawal Agreement . If the Brexit was not happening then we would have chance fight in courts with EEA law .So I am not wasting time when my families complete 5year to apply PR again if it will take time to court dates they are very long waiting everywhere in courts . Thanks .

[mgb]

A application started before the Brexit still fall under eu law.
The period from the application date till to the brexit cannot fall out.

[Unluckyeea2]

Hi mgb , thanks for updating . You mean If application is done before March 2019 and decisions not made by HO or gone to court and waiting for judgements after Brexit will continue in courts with EU law ? I think only for just EEA citizens cases but what will happen for EEA /UK dual citizens cases like Lounes case because Dual citizens are not included in Brexit Withdarawal Agreement .Many thanks for updating .

[chaoscontrol]

A application started before the Brexit still fall under eu law.
The period from the application date till to the brexit cannot fall out.

Thanks for advice mgb , that will be definately the fact for the court listing after appeal .
Important :
Had a phone call from my MP today morning, she received an answer from UKVI (Home Office) to the letter which I send to her around month ago .

THE ANSWER said :
ALL EUROPEAN COURT RULINGS/DECISIONS PUT ON HOLD ,NOTHING WILL BE IMPLEMENTED ,BECAUSE UK EXITS EU , SO NO NEED ANYMORE TO IMPLEMENT EU COURT DECISIONS.

IN LIGHT OF THAT : EVERYONE IN SIMILAR SITUATION TO MY ADVISED TO SEEK LEGAL ADVICE (SOLICITOR) , CAUSE OUR PR APPLICATIONS WILL BE REFUSED AND WE WILL NEED TO APPEAL AND GO TO COURT .

[reynaldogr]

A application started before the Brexit still fall under eu law.
The period from the application date till to the brexit cannot fall out.

Thanks for advice mgb , that will be definately the fact for the court listing after appeal .
Important :
Had a phone call from my MP today morning, she received an answer from UKVI (Home Office) to the letter which I send to her around month ago .

THE ANSWER said :
ALL EUROPEAN COURT RULINGS/DECISIONS PUT ON HOLD ,NOTHING WILL BE IMPLEMENTED ,BECAUSE UK EXITS EU , SO NO NEED ANYMORE TO IMPLEMENT EU COURT DECISIONS.

IN LIGHT OF THAT : EVERYONE IN SIMILAR SITUATION TO MY ADVISED TO SEEK LEGAL ADVICE (SOLICITOR) , CAUSE OUR PR APPLICATIONS WILL BE REFUSED AND WE WILL NEED TO APPEAL AND GO TO COURT .

Is that even legal? we are still part of the EU until march next year, until then, we are still part of the EU. what a disgrace becoming British! unbelievable

[chaoscontrol]

A application started before the Brexit still fall under eu law.
The period from the application date till to the brexit cannot fall out.

Thanks for advice mgb , that will be definately the fact for the court listing after appeal .
Important :
Had a phone call from my MP today morning, she received an answer from UKVI (Home Office) to the letter which I send to her around month ago .

THE ANSWER said :
ALL EUROPEAN COURT RULINGS/DECISIONS PUT ON HOLD ,NOTHING WILL BE IMPLEMENTED ,BECAUSE UK EXITS EU , SO NO NEED ANYMORE TO IMPLEMENT EU COURT DECISIONS.

IN LIGHT OF THAT : EVERYONE IN SIMILAR SITUATION TO MY ADVISED TO SEEK LEGAL ADVICE (SOLICITOR) , CAUSE OUR PR APPLICATIONS WILL BE REFUSED AND WE WILL NEED TO APPEAL AND GO TO COURT .

Is that even legal? we are still part of the EU until march next year, until then, we are still part of the EU. what a disgrace becoming British! unbelievable

that is all AGAINST the Law and absolutely unlawful , HO trying to avoid any EU Law implementations covering that with Brexit.
that is why I am advising everyone to seek legal assistance , appeal and go to court .

[pusched]

Just found a few things online:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41012265

UK will leave EU court's jurisdiction but this won't be until at least end of March 2019. This will depend on the transitional period which could take years as per this article:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08 ... 7-emerges/

I don't think the UK can put decisions on hold because of Brexit. As mentioned, UK is still part of the EU and what I think we can do is contact as many people/organisations we can to put some pressure on the HO.

[Unluckyeea2]

If so then Just they want reduce migrants numbers anyhow they can . Only hope is everyone effected complains to European commission oficcials including president .courts battle is not straight forwards and will take years and years we are going to be **** up may be go back to EU again . We all going to end up in courts no guarantee being success . Thanks for updates .

[reynaldogr]

A application started before the Brexit still fall under eu law.
The period from the application date till to the brexit cannot fall out.

Thanks for advice mgb , that will be definately the fact for the court listing after appeal .
Important :
Had a phone call from my MP today morning, she received an answer from UKVI (Home Office) to the letter which I send to her around month ago .

THE ANSWER said :
ALL EUROPEAN COURT RULINGS/DECISIONS PUT ON HOLD ,NOTHING WILL BE IMPLEMENTED ,BECAUSE UK EXITS EU , SO NO NEED ANYMORE TO IMPLEMENT EU COURT DECISIONS.

IN LIGHT OF THAT : EVERYONE IN SIMILAR SITUATION TO MY ADVISED TO SEEK LEGAL ADVICE (SOLICITOR) , CAUSE OUR PR APPLICATIONS WILL BE REFUSED AND WE WILL NEED TO APPEAL AND GO TO COURT .

Is that even legal? we are still part of the EU until march next year, until then, we are still part of the EU. what a disgrace becoming British! unbelievable

that is all AGAINST the Law and absolutely unlawful , HO trying to avoid any EU Law implementations covering that with Brexit.
that is why I am advising everyone to seek legal assistance , appeal and go to court .

Hi chaoscontrol,

what did the MP suggest after telling you all this? i suppose he should know this isn't right and will do whatever is on his power to complain against the HO, in the parliament. Br

[Unluckyeea2]

I read somewhere in this forum that British citizens in living or exercising rights in EU weren't covered in Brexit widrawal Agreement then they raised issue to MPs and EU commission so now they are included in Brexit Withdrawal Agreement surender Singh routes. Britcits blog spot more details mentioned .thanks to all for update.

[Unluckyeea2]

Hi pusched , thanks for information .Exactly you are right if we contact more people / orgnizations including EU commission and officials then pressure will bring some positive outcomes by Brexit .I am trying to do something .there is no dout that we are going to end up in court battle so I will apply through EU law expert barristers not that my previous solicitor who didn't advise me not naturalise before PR of families just I regret now .thanks to all for info nation .

[reynaldogr]

Thanks for advice mgb , that will be definately the fact for the court listing after appeal .
Important :
Had a phone call from my MP today morning, she received an answer from UKVI (Home Office) to the letter which I send to her around month ago .

THE ANSWER said :
ALL EUROPEAN COURT RULINGS/DECISIONS PUT ON HOLD ,NOTHING WILL BE IMPLEMENTED ,BECAUSE UK EXITS EU , SO NO NEED ANYMORE TO IMPLEMENT EU COURT DECISIONS.

IN LIGHT OF THAT : EVERYONE IN SIMILAR SITUATION TO MY ADVISED TO SEEK LEGAL ADVICE (SOLICITOR) , CAUSE OUR PR APPLICATIONS WILL BE REFUSED AND WE WILL NEED TO APPEAL AND GO TO COURT .

Is that even legal? we are still part of the EU until march next year, until then, we are still part of the EU. what a disgrace becoming British! unbelievable

that is all AGAINST the Law and absolutely unlawful , HO trying to avoid any EU Law implementations covering that with Brexit.
that is why I am advising everyone to seek legal assistance , appeal and go to court .

Hi chaoscontrol,

what did the MP suggest after telling you all this? i suppose he should know this isn't right and will do whatever is on his power to complain against the HO, in the parliament. Br

https://www.freemovement.org.uk/brexit- ... ns-rights/

"How will these rights be protected and enforced?
The Withdrawal Agreement will have the status of international law. The Court of Justice of the European Union (CJEU) will continue to have jurisdiction in the UK for eight years. This appears a very big climbdown by the UK government but it is also an area on which the EU has conceded too, leaving citizens facing a possible precarious situation further down the line.

All applicants who are refused documents will have a right to appeal the decision to the First-tier Tribunal (Immigration and Asylum Chamber). While the tribunal will decide the appeal, the CJEU will continue to be the ultimate arbiter of the interpretation of EU law for the rights of citizens. This means the UK courts can continue to refer to CJEU judgments. It also means that UK courts can continue to seek further interpretation and clarifications from the CJEU in areas of uncertainty.

[aarontran2506]

Dear OP,

Have you applied PR for your wife yet? I hope everything was decided in your favour.
I will be on the same boat soon so I would just like to gain some insight.
Your reply will be much appreciated,
Thank you

[ariskar]

I am in a similar situation with the OP, holding EEA(PR) certificate as an EU national, having obtained also British citizenship.

The difference is that my non-EU spouse is on refugee leave to remain BRP, instead of EEA family member residence permit, making it even less likely to succeed in this route. We would like to try it after reaching the 5 year threshold, as EEA(PR) causes no travel restrictions for the non-EEA spouse while being considered compared to SET(P) 3-6 month waiting for ILR with no documents, while the incremental cost is negligible...