Germany Residence Permit Problem; NonEU spouse of EU citizen

[enwhyc]

Hello, first ever post here hoping someone who was in my shoes can help or has a much needed advice.
I am EU Citizen last week moved to Germany with my Non-EU wife while exercising free movement rights as jobseeker. We are staying with my wife's relatives and looking for jobs in Germany (Both recent PhD graduates).
We are trying to get residence permit for my wife.
City hall registration went fine. However, problems started at the immigration office (small regional town). They had to look up my situation in google: a EU citizen traveling with Non-EU spouse (and never heard of 2004/38/EC directive).
In order to apply for my wife's residence permit (which she is entitled to) one particular thing got us stuck. It was a request for a certificate from social services or job center that we do not receive social assistance from Germany. It was called a Negativbescheinigung. Needless to say we never lived here and have not received a cent. At the job center, instead of looking at our bank statements and recently bought german health insurance they gave us lots of forms for SGBII. Basically making us apply for the social assistance. We are completely confused what to do and what our options are.
Also, I know that for 6 months, at least, as job seeker they cannot ask me for showing any means of subsistence. But they say we do not care for you it is about your wife. Please help. Thank you.

[mgb]

Refer to section 5a of the Freizügigkeitsgesetz.
The english version is available here:
https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/engl ... html#p0081

If you want to exercise your treaty rights as self-sufficient person 5a(1) number 3 has to be used.

[enwhyc]

Refer to section 5a of the Freizügigkeitsgesetz.
The english version is available here:
https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/engl ... html#p0081

If you want to exercise your treaty rights as self-sufficient person 5a(1) number 3 has to be used.

Thank you for replying. It makes sense that they ask for "proof of adequate health insurance coverage and adequate means of subsistence." But the rules are quite "dry", what does it mean "adequate means of subsistence"? Can I tell them: here is my bank statement, here is health insurance for me and my wife, what you ask me to do at job center is not correct? Something feels not right that we are asked to fill the lots of forms including "Hauptantrag SGB II". Thank you in advance.

[enwhyc]

I am now reading more and it seems that I, as a EU job seeker do not have to provide proof of subsistence for at least 6 months. However, it seems they want my wife, a nonEU depended, to prove that she is not getting social security payments and essentially proving that she has means to subsist when applying to residence permit that she is entitled to. That does not make sense. Can they ask a dependent that or should simply accept residence permit application? Thank you.

[mgb]

If your bank account is filled enough and you have health insurance anyway why not exercise your treaty rights as self-sufficient person.
You can play the job seeker card if something goes wrong and you play it against the foreigner office. If you own no proof for your job search you have to register your search with the job center. That is their onliest affiliation with the right of free movement.

PS:
With the "Hauptantrag SGB II" you would kill your right of free movement.
At least from the 4th month on.

[enwhyc]

If your bank account is filled enough and you have health insurance anyway why not exercise your treaty rights as self-sufficient person.
You can play the job seeker card if something goes wrong and you play it against the foreigner office. If you own no proof for your job search you have to register your search with the job center. That is their onliest affiliation with the right of free movement.

PS:
With the "Hauptantrag SGB II" you would kill your right of free movement.
At least from the 4th month on.

mgb, you are being very helpful thank you.

We have some savings, how much per month should we show and for how long, do you know?
It seems it is better to do job seeker because, for my job search, I already have emails inviting me to interviews and the emails I received from my applications. I was thinking registering with the job search later on anyways.

Is it true that they are not supposed to ask proof of subsistence from my wife, because she is dependent? And if true, then they cannot ask for subsistence proof nor any negative certificate from social if I am a job seeker and should accept her residence permit application? I was reading that job seekers are excluded from SGB II anyways.

The immigration is bent on requesting the negative certificate from social center and the social/job center is giving us an SGB II. It's funny. I basically have to look up all the legislature myself and come to immigration with print outs highlighting important things...
Thank you again!

[mgb]

We have some savings, how much per month should we show and for how long, do you know?

There is no exact definition. I would guess around 12,000 Euro for 1 year for the first shot.

Is it true that they are not supposed to ask proof of subsistence from my wife, because she is dependent? And if true, then they cannot ask for subsistence proof nor any negative certificate from social if I am a job seeker and should accept her residence permit application?

The eu citizen has to deliver the right to stay. The family member is only dependent.

Your wife want a residence card (Aufenthaltskarte) and not a residence permit due to national german immigration law.

[enwhyc]

We have some savings, how much per month should we show and for how long, do you know?

There is no exact definition. I would guess around 12,000 Euro for 1 year for the first shot.

Is it true that they are not supposed to ask proof of subsistence from my wife, because she is dependent? And if true, then they cannot ask for subsistence proof nor any negative certificate from social if I am a job seeker and should accept her residence permit application?

The eu citizen has to deliver the right to stay. The family member is only dependent.

Your wife want a residence card (Aufenthaltskarte) and not a residence permit due to national german immigration law.

Thank you again. Hmmm, they gave us Antrag auf Erteilung eines Aufenthaltstitels. So I suppose this is different from Aufenthaltskarte application?

[mgb]

Example from Munich:
http://www.muenchen.de/rathaus/dms/Home ... eibbar.pdf

[enwhyc]

Example from Munich:
http://www.muenchen.de/rathaus/dms/Home ... eibbar.pdf

Thank you for help mgb! It seems they were leading us to completely into different direction. Tomorrow we go and start over. Cheers.

[enwhyc]

mgb, your advice was correct, we did the application for residence card smoothly.

[abimfol]

mgb, your advice was correct, we did the application for residence card smoothly.

Can you shed more light on how you went about securing the residence permit for your wife. I'm in a similar situation and hoping I can get a residence card through self sufficient