ESC

Click the "allow" button if you want to receive important news and updates from immigrationboards.com


Immigrationboards.com: Immigration, work visa and work permit discussion board

Welcome to immigrationboards.com!

Login Register Do not show

Return my BRP within 5 Days - what is the law

A section for posts relating to applications for Naturalisation or Registration as a British Citizen. Naturalisation

Moderators: Casa, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe, CR001, push, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, meself2, geriatrix

Locked
Forest2thirds
Newly Registered
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:38 am
United Kingdom

Return my BRP within 5 Days - what is the law

Post by Forest2thirds » Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:03 pm

Does anyone know the source of the law (chapters and verses) which imposes the legal requirement for return of the BRP and the power to impose the £1,000 fine?

User avatar
ariskar
Member of Standing
Posts: 319
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:23 pm
Location: London, UK
Mood:
Greece

Re: Return my BRP within 5 Days - what is the law

Post by ariskar » Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:14 pm

Forest2thirds wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:03 pm
Does anyone know the source of the law (chapters and verses) which imposes the legal requirement for return of the BRP and the power to impose the £1,000 fine?
I guess it is similar to returning old driving license after getting new one in the post. Rarely enforced, but why risk it? BRP/ILR is invalid for travel after obtaining the certificate of naturalisation.

secret.simon
Moderator
Posts: 11258
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:29 pm

Re: Return my BRP within 5 Days - what is the law

Post by secret.simon » Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:54 pm

ariskar wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:14 pm
why risk it? BRP/ILR is invalid for travel after obtaining the certificate of naturalisation.
True, but there are other reasons to hold on to the BRP. For instance, children born in the UK while a parent held ILR derive their British citizenship automatically on that basis. But they could face issues at passport renewal time if required to prove that their parents held ILR at the time of their birth. The Home Office periodically deletes information in accordance with the Data Protection Act and hence it would be up to the individual and their parent to prove that the parent held ILR.
Forest2thirds wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:03 pm
Does anyone know the source of the law (chapters and verses) which imposes the legal requirement for return of the BRP and the power to impose the £1,000 fine?
Not absolutely certain, but likely Section 7(F) of the British Nationality (General) Regulations 2003, as inserted by the British Nationality (General) (Amendment) Regulations 2015.
Destruction of biometric information
7F.—(1) The Secretary of State must take all reasonable steps to ensure that biometric information held by the Secretary of State by virtue of these Regulations, including any copies, is destroyed if the Secretary of State

(a)no longer thinks that it is necessary to retain the information for use as mentioned in regulation 7E(1); or
(b)subject to the exception in paragraph (2), is satisfied that the person to whom the information relates is a British citizen, or a Commonwealth citizen who has a right of abode in the United Kingdom as a result of section 2(1)(b) of the Immigration Act 1971.

(2) The exception is that photographs of a person who is registered or naturalised as a British citizen may be retained until the person is issued with a United Kingdom passport describing the person as a British citizen.
The BRP, like most identity documents issued by a government, is the property of the government issuing it (for instance,a US passport is the property of the US government, not the person named on the passport) and they can ask for it back.

As the SSHD is required to destroy all copies of the biometric data when they are satisfied that the person is a British citizen, it stands to reason that it can ask for its property (the BRP, which holds biometric data) back to destroy it.
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

vinny
Moderator
Posts: 33338
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:58 pm

Re: Return my BRP within 5 Days - what is the law

Post by vinny » Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:41 pm

The British Nationality (General) (Amendment) Regulations 2015 wrote:Use and retention of biometric information

7E.—(1) Biometric information provided in accordance with these Regulations may be retained only if the Secretary of State thinks that it is necessary to retain it for use in connection with—

(a)the exercise of a function by virtue of the Immigration Acts; or
(b)the exercise of a function in relation to nationality.

Would the exercise of a function in relation to child’s nationality under Section 1(1)(b) apply?
1Acquisition by birth or adoption

(1)A person born in the United Kingdom after commencement shall be a British citizen if at the time of the birth his father or mother is—
(a)a British citizen; or
(b)settled in the United Kingdom.
This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any given links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

secret.simon
Moderator
Posts: 11258
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:29 pm

Re: Return my BRP within 5 Days - what is the law

Post by secret.simon » Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:49 pm

vinny wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:41 pm
The British Nationality (General) (Amendment) Regulations 2015 wrote:Use and retention of biometric information

7E.—(1) Biometric information provided in accordance with these Regulations may be retained only if the Secretary of State thinks that it is necessary to retain it for use in connection with—
(a)the exercise of a function by virtue of the Immigration Acts; or
(b)the exercise of a function in relation to nationality.
Would the exercise of a function in relation to child’s nationality under Section 1(1)(b) apply?
1Acquisition by birth or adoption
(1)A person born in the United Kingdom after commencement shall be a British citizen if at the time of the birth his father or mother is—
(a)a British citizen; or
(b)settled in the United Kingdom.
Interesting. I had not thought of that angle.

The catch is of course that the SSHD/Home Office seems to have to agree to this (very commonsensical) interpretation. How does one get such agreement?
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

vinny
Moderator
Posts: 33338
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:58 pm

Re: Return my BRP within 5 Days - what is the law

Post by vinny » Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:11 am

By quoting HMPO’s requirements of original documents?
What documents to send with your application
...
proof that your child has British nationality (for example a British registration certificate, parent’s passport details or parent’s birth certificates)
You must send original documents or official copies of certificates. Photocopies aren’t accepted, even ‘certified copies’.
This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any given links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

Forest2thirds
Newly Registered
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:38 am
United Kingdom

Re: Return my BRP within 5 Days - what is the law

Post by Forest2thirds » Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:29 pm

I think I may have got the answer:

The Immigration (Biometric Registration) Regulations 2008 No. 3048

Regulation 16.—(1) The Secretary of State may require the surrender of a biometric immigration document as soon as reasonably practicable if he thinks that —

...
(e) the holder’s leave to remain is to be varied, cancelled or invalidated, or is to lapse;
...
(g) the document has ceased to have effect under regulation 13(3) or has been cancelled under regulation 17; or ...

(2) Where a person is required to surrender the biometric immigration document under paragraph (1), the person must comply with the requirement.

Regulation 23(3) Where any person ... fails to comply with a requirement of these Regulations, the Secretary of State must consider giving a notice under section 9 of the UK Borders Act 2007.

Section 9 of UK Borders Act 2007

(1) The Secretary of State may by notice require a person to pay a penalty for failing to comply with a requirement of regulations under section 5(1).

(2) The notice must—
(a) specify the amount of the penalty,
(b) specify a date before which the penalty must be paid to the Secretary of State,
(c) specify methods by which the penalty may be paid,
(d) explain the grounds on which the Secretary of State thinks the person has failed to comply with a requirement of the regulations, and
(e) explain the effect of sections 10 to 12.

(3) The amount specified under subsection (2)(a) may not exceed £1,000.

(4) ...
Last edited by vinny on Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: links added

Forest2thirds
Newly Registered
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:38 am
United Kingdom

Re: Return my BRP within 5 Days - what is the law

Post by Forest2thirds » Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:36 pm

I also stumbled upon this:

UK Borders Act 2007: Code of Practice about the sanctions for non-compliance with the biometric registration regulations March 2015
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... h_2015.pdf

It says:

20. If the Secretary of State is satisfied that a person has failed without a reasonable excuse
to comply with a requirement of the regulations the Secretary of State may issue that person with a warning letter.

21. The warning letter will set out the reasons why the Secretary of State considers the person
has not complied with the requirements of the regulations and what action may be taken,
and will outline how the person may avoid a sanction being imposed provided they:
• respond within the “warning period”, which is 10 working days beginning on the day the letter is served, which is:
- either the date it is given to the person by an officer acting on behalf of the Secretary of State; or
- two days following the post date of the letter; or
- the email date if the warning letter is issued by email; and
• provide an acceptable explanation
- as to why they were unable to comply and demonstrate that compliance will take place as soon as is practically possible; or
- that allows the Secretary of State to put into place special arrangements to enable the person to comply; or
- satisfactory evidence that they cannot comply.

22. The Secretary of State will not proceed to impose a sanction until the warning period
has ended.

My question: does it mean that as a matter of practice, the Home Office will not give a fine for failure to return a BRP before they have issued a warning notice and the 10 working days' "warning period" has expired?

Forest2thirds
Newly Registered
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:38 am
United Kingdom

Re: Return my BRP within 5 Days - what is the law

Post by Forest2thirds » Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:54 pm

Perhaps to paraphrase my question: has anyone received such warning notice after failing to return the BRP or been issued a fine without any advance warning?

I have returned the BRP albeit out of time - so would like to know if it would be possible to be fined now for having returned it late.

User avatar
CR001
Moderator
Posts: 88115
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:55 pm
Location: London
Mood:
South Africa

Re: Return my BRP within 5 Days - what is the law

Post by CR001 » Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:57 pm

Forest2thirds wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:54 pm
Perhaps to paraphrase my question: has anyone received such warning notice after failing to return the BRP or been issued a fine without any advance warning?
None have been reported by any of the forum members.
Char (CR001 not Casa)
In life you cannot press the Backspace button!!
Please DO NOT send me a PM for immigration advice. I reserve the right to ignore the PM and not respond.

Forest2thirds
Newly Registered
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:38 am
United Kingdom

Re: Return my BRP within 5 Days - what is the law

Post by Forest2thirds » Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:38 pm

Thanks CR001.

Jonny31t
Newly Registered
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:49 pm
United Kingdom

Re: Return my BRP within 5 Days - what is the law

Post by Jonny31t » Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:36 pm

Forest2thirds wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:38 pm
Thanks CR001.
Considering the recent Windrush scandal. Is there reason to not return it?

Locked