T1 Extension refused, employees hours, URGENT HELP PLEASE

[marcnath]

One more question

One of my employee was former director. She was on payroll since April 2014.
She got her ILR on 16-4-2016.
From 18-4-2016, we removed her from directorship and made her manager/employee because she qualified as a settled worker by then.

There was no need to remove her from DIrectorship for immigration purposes. She would have still qualified for points upon getting ILR even if she was a Director.

Now I am just thinking that we claimed points for her employment from 18-4-2016, but FPS for that month doesnt show her start date. We just swtich her roles, she didnt leave and rejoined.

Yes, FPS will not show her joining date as she joined in April 2014

Now I have already sent my application but I am just thinking if UKVI asks for FPS with start date.
Before sending this application, my solicitor asked me for it and maximum we could do was an EARLY YEAR UPDATE generated from the accounting software that is in the same format as FPS, but its not an FPS, its an EYU report. My solicitor said that we will explain in covering letter that she was already a director, her job role was switched once she received her ILR but she continued working for the company.

Did this EYU have the starting date ? I do know of one case where UKVI accepted a Year to Date submission as the old payroll FPS did not have the start date. Not sure if it is the same thing. The YTD document had almost all the information of the FPS - PAYE payments, etc.

shall I enter relevant information in money soft software, generate FPS for april 2014 and send it to UKVI ? with reference to my application which is already with them?

You definitely need one document that shows the starting date. From your description, it would appear that the EYU meets the need. But your call whether you want to recreate from Moneysoft and send it.

[Faheemryk]

I asked my solicitor and this is what she replied


The Home Office will only consider additional documents sent after the application is submitted in relation to EEA cases. This however does not apply to you therefore we cannot submit the additional FPS even if you are able to provide it.


But I read at this forum that people sent additional documents while their application was in process and those documents were considered by home office.

What shall I do?

[schahzeb]

I asked my solicitor and this is what she replied


The Home Office will only consider additional documents sent after the application is submitted in relation to EEA cases. This however does not apply to you therefore we cannot submit the additional FPS even if you are able to provide it.


But I read at this forum that people sent additional documents while their application was in process and those documents were considered by home office.

What shall I do?

just send it

[marcnath]

I asked my solicitor and this is what she replied


The Home Office will only consider additional documents sent after the application is submitted in relation to EEA cases. This however does not apply to you therefore we cannot submit the additional FPS even if you are able to provide it.


But I read at this forum that people sent additional documents while their application was in process and those documents were considered by home office.

What shall I do?

I hope you have not paid your solicitor too much.

Read this thread uk-tier-1-entrepreneur-visas/can-i-send ... 33455.html of a case where he forgot to include FPS (sure rejection), sent it after 6 months and got the approval 2 weeks after

[Faheemryk]

My accountant is asking me if I should be issued P45 ?
Because at the moment I'm not allowed to work or withdraw salary.

Shall I ask him to issue my P45 ?

[marcnath]

My accountant is asking me if I should be issued P45 ?
Because at the moment I'm not allowed to work or withdraw salary.

Shall I ask him to issue my P45 ?

Interesting question from your accountant.

Anyway, whether you are issued P45 or not has nothing to do with immigration rules.

You should not be on the PAYE, so your accountant should have filed your leaving FPS by now.

Once that is done, most payroll software will generate a P45 automatically, but a P45 is a document needed by your new employer and obviously you are not going to have a new employer anytime soon.

[Faheemryk]

If I get visa extension, then I can start my employment with my own business again.

At the moment I have enough savings to support myself.

[marcnath]

If I get visa extension, then I can start my employment with my own business again.

At the moment I have enough savings to support myself.

Yes

[Faheemryk]

I got my Tier 1 E initial visa in January 2014. I applied for extension in January 2017, but my extension was refused for not fulfilling job creation requirements. I made fresh application in June 2017. Now, I am wondering if UKVI will ask me to attend an interview. I am considering possible questions that might be asked by UKVI in case they call me for an interview. There are various issues where I need some suggestions. I think I’d be able to score all 95 points. However, I am worried about genuine entrepreneur test. I have seen refusals after interview based on genuine entrepreneur test.
I am running a tuition services business. We provide tuition to university students. We advertise online, using google adwords etc. Business has been running successfully, made profit in first three consecutive years, 2013, 2014 and 2015. Fourth year 2016 ran into loss. But we still have good future perspectives. 2017 has been a good year, we generated good revenue.
My question is regarding customer contracts. Problem is that we didn’t make customer contracts for all clients in the past. For some clients, we made contracts, for other, we didn’t. clients are university students, who buy lessons from us. There are many students who bought only two hours lessons and we didn’t make contracts with them. Some students buy ten hours, some buy twenty or even more. Some customer paid into business bank account, others paid in cash. I have spreadsheets showing client details, contact number, university, and how much revenue is generated from each of them. Normally, we have 50 plus clients per year.
Will there be any problem if I am asked for customer contracts during my interview with UKVI? I think I can make some contracts in the back date and ask students to sign them. So that I have at least some contracts. Will that help? Or shall I say that we just discuss verbally. Not sure if that answer will help.
Most clients come through our own website and online advertisements. Some clients contact us through online tuition advertising websites or tuition agencies. These websites charge some matching fees or some charge percentage commission for hours taught. Will that be ok?
I had two employees in the past. One employee used to do some admin work plus some tutoring. She has recently resigned because of her family commitments. I didn’t employ anyone in her place yet. Other employee is continuing and she does admin work only. At the moment, business has only one-part time employee on the payroll, and that’s her.
I am sole director and shareholder of the business. I tutor students as well. Since I am no more covered by section 3c after making fresh application, I removed myself from payroll. However, I am still running this business and tutoring students. All revenue generated goes to company. I live alone, don’t have dependents so I am paying my living expenses from my savings. Will there be any problem with that? if interviewer asks me this question during interview that, you are not employed, how are you paying for your living expenses?
We rented shared office space and a classroom in central London for few months in the past. However, students were preferring lessons at public libraries near their universities or even at their homes. They were not much interested to come to our office. We kept that place for six months and after that, we left it. Because it was quite expensive for us, and customers weren’t interested to take lessons at our office.
Now I am running this business from home. Since most of our admin work is online, therefore my only employee doesn’t need to attend office on daily basis. She’s working part time, aprroximately, 21 hours per week. From time to time, I see her at library near my place, where I give her instructions for work. I tutor students at the same library. Will that be ok?
These are some of the possible questions that I had in my mind, that a UKVI interviewer can ask me. I need your advice if there are any issues that I must address. Any advice or guidance would be greatly appreciated. I am running a genuine business, however, I don’t want to be refused again.

[Faheemryk]

I am on 50K route

[marcnath]

I do understand your concern, especially seeing the various cases that come to this forum.
Remember that mostly people who face issues are the one who come for help in this forum. So, even though it feels like large numbers, it is a very small proportion of the number of applicants. So I believe the vast majority of applicants are going through.
If and when you are interviewed, the key thing (in my honest opinion) is to be prepared with information, know your business and be confident when you answers.
You know what your business is, what you plan to do with it and that is what is important.
Keep your focus on the positives of your business, the impact you made on the students, the successes you have had, why you are doing what your doing and so on.
It is good to think about the possible negatives as you have done, but I don't think any of them are negatives and that is what you should see it as and communicate accordingly.

[QSDanik]

Hello Faheem
Best for your business is to print term and conditions on the back of your invoice or receipt. Thats it,( that is your contract) ( even if you send soft copy of invice just just put your term and conditions in the invoice.
Contract does not mean to be bundle of pages, It can be only 5 lines.

If you have not done before just start and put your term and conditions in your invoice for new customers or next invoice to existing customers.

[Faheemryk]

I do understand your concern, especially seeing the various cases that come to this forum.
Remember that mostly people who face issues are the one who come for help in this forum. So, even though it feels like large numbers, it is a very small proportion of the number of applicants. So I believe the vast majority of applicants are going through.
If and when you are interviewed, the key thing (in my honest opinion) is to be prepared with information, know your business and be confident when you answers.
You know what your business is, what you plan to do with it and that is what is important.
Keep your focus on the positives of your business, the impact you made on the students, the successes you have had, why you are doing what your doing and so on.
It is good to think about the possible negatives as you have done, but I don't think any of them are negatives and that is what you should see it as and communicate accordingly.

Thank you so much Marcnath. You advice is important to me. Much appreciated.

[Faheemryk]

Hello Faheem
Best for your business is to print term and conditions on the back of your invoice or receipt. Thats it,( that is your contract) ( even if you send soft copy of invice just just put your term and conditions in the invoice.
Contract does not mean to be bundle of pages, It can be only 5 lines.

If you have not done before just start and put your term and conditions in your invoice for new customers or next invoice to existing customers.

Thank you so much QSDanik for your advice. I'll act upon your advice. Much appreciated.

[HMG]

I got my initial T1 Entrepreneur visa 50K route on 20th January 2014. I was on Pre 6 April 2014 transitional arrangement.

I applied for my Tier 1 visa Extension on 18 January 2017. I got refusal letter yesterday. I have received points for all other criteria except for employment creation. Following is the exact wording of refusal letter.

In order to qualify for creating two full time jobs the employees you have submitted evidence for must have worked a combined total of 3120 hours. You have claimed a combined total of 3395 working hours for the three employees you have submitted evidence for. The maximum total hours an employee can contribute towards this figure is 130 hours per month, however the wage slips you have submitted show your employees working up to 165 hours per month. Therefore we have calculated that your three employees have worked a combined total of 2810 hours.
This is not sufficient to meet the requirement of creating the equivalent of two new full-time jobs which have each existed for at least 12 months.
We have therefore been unable to award points for Attributes in accordance with Appendix A.

Right from the beginning, I understood from the policy guidance that I am on transitional arrangement which means that I can continue to employ (and score points for job creation):

 one worker for 24 months;
 one worker for 6 months and one for 18 months;
 4 workers for 6 months each.

Please gurus and members, help me. Can I go for admin review? On the basis that I was on Pre transitional period, and I have created jobs and required hours according to the guidelines? What should be best possible course of action for me?

Your cooperation and advice is much appreciated.

Hi,

Are there any news about your second application. Did you apply for AR before the fresh application or just applied for a fresh one straightway. I wish you got the visa by now

[Faheemryk]

I got my initial T1 Entrepreneur visa 50K route on 20th January 2014. I was on Pre 6 April 2014 transitional arrangement.

I applied for my Tier 1 visa Extension on 18 January 2017. I got refusal letter yesterday. I have received points for all other criteria except for employment creation. Following is the exact wording of refusal letter.

In order to qualify for creating two full time jobs the employees you have submitted evidence for must have worked a combined total of 3120 hours. You have claimed a combined total of 3395 working hours for the three employees you have submitted evidence for. The maximum total hours an employee can contribute towards this figure is 130 hours per month, however the wage slips you have submitted show your employees working up to 165 hours per month. Therefore we have calculated that your three employees have worked a combined total of 2810 hours.
This is not sufficient to meet the requirement of creating the equivalent of two new full-time jobs which have each existed for at least 12 months.
We have therefore been unable to award points for Attributes in accordance with Appendix A.

Right from the beginning, I understood from the policy guidance that I am on transitional arrangement which means that I can continue to employ (and score points for job creation):

 one worker for 24 months;
 one worker for 6 months and one for 18 months;
 4 workers for 6 months each.

Please gurus and members, help me. Can I go for admin review? On the basis that I was on Pre transitional period, and I have created jobs and required hours according to the guidelines? What should be best possible course of action for me?

Your cooperation and advice is much appreciated.

Hi,

Are there any news about your second application. Did you apply for AR before the fresh application or just applied for a fresh one straightway. I wish you got the visa by now

Hi

I’m still waiting for the outcome of my second application.

I didn’t apply for admin review. I went for fresh application straight away.

[HMG]

I got my initial T1 Entrepreneur visa 50K route on 20th January 2014. I was on Pre 6 April 2014 transitional arrangement.

I applied for my Tier 1 visa Extension on 18 January 2017. I got refusal letter yesterday. I have received points for all other criteria except for employment creation. Following is the exact wording of refusal letter.

In order to qualify for creating two full time jobs the employees you have submitted evidence for must have worked a combined total of 3120 hours. You have claimed a combined total of 3395 working hours for the three employees you have submitted evidence for. The maximum total hours an employee can contribute towards this figure is 130 hours per month, however the wage slips you have submitted show your employees working up to 165 hours per month. Therefore we have calculated that your three employees have worked a combined total of 2810 hours.
This is not sufficient to meet the requirement of creating the equivalent of two new full-time jobs which have each existed for at least 12 months.
We have therefore been unable to award points for Attributes in accordance with Appendix A.

Right from the beginning, I understood from the policy guidance that I am on transitional arrangement which means that I can continue to employ (and score points for job creation):

 one worker for 24 months;
 one worker for 6 months and one for 18 months;
 4 workers for 6 months each.

Please gurus and members, help me. Can I go for admin review? On the basis that I was on Pre transitional period, and I have created jobs and required hours according to the guidelines? What should be best possible course of action for me?

Your cooperation and advice is much appreciated.

Hi,

Are there any news about your second application. Did you apply for AR before the fresh application or just applied for a fresh one straightway. I wish you got the visa by now

Hi

I’m still waiting for the outcome of my second application.

I didn’t apply for admin review. I went for fresh application straight away.

Wish you all the best. you spent money, time and effort so you deserve to get it, and is unfair if you did not.
Please let me know why you did not go for AR, is it better to go for a fresh application or this was just a decision from you. Please let me know as I am in the same situation and should send either AR or fresh application in like 4 days

[marcnath]

Please let me know why you did not go for AR, is it better to go for a fresh application or this was just a decision from you. Please let me know as I am in the same situation and should send either AR or fresh application in like 4 days

If you read the full thread, you will see that you are not in the same situation.

OP, in this case, submitted employment information for only 22 months. You submitted documents for more than 24 months. That is a big difference as you can't provide additional evidence in AR.

[HMG]

Please let me know why you did not go for AR, is it better to go for a fresh application or this was just a decision from you. Please let me know as I am in the same situation and should send either AR or fresh application in like 4 days

If you read the full thread, you will see that you are not in the same situation.

OP, in this case, submitted employment information for only 22 months. You submitted documents for more than 24 months. That is a big difference as you can't provide additional evidence in AR.

Yes but they did not consider this as I did not clearly state their working hours in the employment table, Anyway I think I will go for AR and let's see what will be the outcome. Wish both of us and everyone here the best

[Faheemryk]

Update on my application

I have just received another complex letter. I got first complex letter in July 2017, and now another complex letter in February 2018. So I have received 2 complex letters now

[bubbly123]

Hi,
Did you receive your ihs refund.
When was the letter dated for second complex letter. Please let us know.
Thanks

[Faheemryk]

Hi,
Did you receive your ihs refund.

not sure, that account was closed. so I wouldnt know. this is something I will tackle later

When was the letter dated for second complex letter. Please let us know.
Thanks

9 feb 2018

[Faheemryk]

Hello everyone,
I have received a call from home office that the compliance officers will interview me at my home, where I have my business address on 13 April. I am on tier 1 entrepreneur 50K route.
I have a question about investment. During initial application, we were two members of entrepreneur team. We showed third party funding who was our cousin in Pakistan. We showed bank letter that money is disposable in the UK and our cousin’s undertaking that he will provide us that money to do our business in the UK. Our initial visa application was refused in July 2013, we went in appeal and win. In the meanwhile, our cousin transferred (£10,000 October 2013) via Dubai into our business bank account. This money was later repaid to him once business started to generate profit through my relatives in Pakistan. However, I didn’t send money to him directly.
Later by the end of 2015, my entrepreneur team member told me that she s going to apply ILR on 10 years’ basis. She got her ILR in April 2016.
I made three transfers from my personal bank account to business bank account for investment purpose, first was £30,000 on 21 December 2015, second £10,000 on 14 March 2016 and third £10,000 in mid of April 2016. Another £2000 in June 2016. I applied for extension in January 2017.
Yesterday I went to see my solicitor, she said, if question is asked, where they money came from, how why is it different source then my initial application, then I must say that one director was leaving directorship of business, therefore, I was the only director, and I was responsible for investment in the company. That’s why I invested £52,000 of my own money. It’s my money. I saved it over the period of time. It was held in a savings account. Later when business needed, then I transferred that money to business account from my personal account.
My question is, this explanation for investment be ok? would there be any problem if we showed our cousins funds during initial application but later, I invested my own funds ?

[marcnath]

Hello everyone,
I have received a call from home office that the compliance officers will interview me at my home, where I have my business address on 13 April. I am on tier 1 entrepreneur 50K route.
I have a question about investment. During initial application, we were two members of entrepreneur team. We showed third party funding who was our cousin in Pakistan. We showed bank letter that money is disposable in the UK and our cousin’s undertaking that he will provide us that money to do our business in the UK. Our initial visa application was refused in July 2013, we went in appeal and win. In the meanwhile, our cousin transferred (£10,000 October 2013) via Dubai into our business bank account. This money was later repaid to him once business started to generate profit through my relatives in Pakistan. However, I didn’t send money to him directly.
Later by the end of 2015, my entrepreneur team member told me that she s going to apply ILR on 10 years’ basis. She got her ILR in April 2016.
I made three transfers from my personal bank account to business bank account for investment purpose, first was £30,000 on 21 December 2015, second £10,000 on 14 March 2016 and third £10,000 in mid of April 2016. Another £2000 in June 2016. I applied for extension in January 2017.
Yesterday I went to see my solicitor, she said, if question is asked, where they money came from, how why is it different source then my initial application, then I must say that one director was leaving directorship of business, therefore, I was the only director, and I was responsible for investment in the company. That’s why I invested £52,000 of my own money. It’s my money. I saved it over the period of time. It was held in a savings account. Later when business needed, then I transferred that money to business account from my personal account.
My question is, this explanation for investment be ok? would there be any problem if we showed our cousins funds during initial application but later, I invested my own funds ?

This is a tough question. I haven't seen anything in the immigration rules that say that the money shown during the initial application should be the same as the money actually invested.
However, Pg 9 of the guidance has the following statement:

Money used in your application must remain available to you or your business until it is spent for the purposes of your business or businesses. The Secretary of State has the right to request further evidence to verify that the money will remain available.

So, it is not about having the same money being invested but that you maintain access to the funds throughout. We haven't seen this used by HO yet, but it is something to be prepared for.

Of course, the other thing you need to be prepared for is the source of money. Obviously, if you used your cousin's money at the application time, you did not have 50K of your own money. So, they do have the right to ask where you got the money from later.

But you seem to have the answers for those - so as your lawyer has advised just be prepared.

I cannot judge whether the proposed answer is the correct one. There are no right or wrong answers - just true and false ones. So remain honest and truthful is the only thing I can say.

[Faheemryk]

Hello everyone,
I have received a call from home office that the compliance officers will interview me at my home, where I have my business address on 13 April. I am on tier 1 entrepreneur 50K route.
I have a question about investment. During initial application, we were two members of entrepreneur team. We showed third party funding who was our cousin in Pakistan. We showed bank letter that money is disposable in the UK and our cousin’s undertaking that he will provide us that money to do our business in the UK. Our initial visa application was refused in July 2013, we went in appeal and win. In the meanwhile, our cousin transferred (£10,000 October 2013) via Dubai into our business bank account. This money was later repaid to him once business started to generate profit through my relatives in Pakistan. However, I didn’t send money to him directly.
Later by the end of 2015, my entrepreneur team member told me that she s going to apply ILR on 10 years’ basis. She got her ILR in April 2016.
I made three transfers from my personal bank account to business bank account for investment purpose, first was £30,000 on 21 December 2015, second £10,000 on 14 March 2016 and third £10,000 in mid of April 2016. Another £2000 in June 2016. I applied for extension in January 2017.
Yesterday I went to see my solicitor, she said, if question is asked, where they money came from, how why is it different source then my initial application, then I must say that one director was leaving directorship of business, therefore, I was the only director, and I was responsible for investment in the company. That’s why I invested £52,000 of my own money. It’s my money. I saved it over the period of time. It was held in a savings account. Later when business needed, then I transferred that money to business account from my personal account.
My question is, this explanation for investment be ok? would there be any problem if we showed our cousins funds during initial application but later, I invested my own funds ?

This is a tough question. I haven't seen anything in the immigration rules that say that the money shown during the initial application should be the same as the money actually invested.
However, Pg 9 of the guidance has the following statement:

Money used in your application must remain available to you or your business until it is spent for the purposes of your business or businesses. The Secretary of State has the right to request further evidence to verify that the money will remain available.

So, it is not about having the same money being invested but that you maintain access to the funds throughout. We haven't seen this used by HO yet, but it is something to be prepared for.

Of course, the other thing you need to be prepared for is the source of money. Obviously, if you used your cousin's money at the application time, you did not have 50K of your own money. So, they do have the right to ask where you got the money from later.

But you seem to have the answers for those - so as your lawyer has advised just be prepared.

I cannot judge whether the proposed answer is the correct one. There are no right or wrong answers - just true and false ones. So remain honest and truthful is the only thing I can say.

Thank you Marcnoth