Non EEA with PR with EU Children - Naturalisation/BC applications

[bathanza]

Hello!

Post is in regards to my German friend and family who have been in the UK under EEA rules. (This has nothing to do with my husband's case nor my own)

We successfully submitted EEA PR for the whole family as they have been residing in the UK since 2011. They have all been issued their PR card.

My German friend does not want to go for BC but his wife (Non-EEA) and his two children (German citizens) will go for citizenship.

Wife has PR card and has passed her life in the UK test. She can go via Naturalisation route then onwards for passport application once citizenship is granted - fairly straightforward.

What we are puzzled about are the children who are EU citizens and what the options are. I have read the MN1 guidance notes and gone through thread and a bit confused.

One child was born Sept 2005 and one in October 2010 - both born in Germany and entered the UK in 2011 (7 years ago)

What is their situation with nationality?
Do they have to go for naturalisation much like their mother?
Or should they wait until she is British and then register?
How does MN1 come into play?

[CR001]

What is their situation with nationality?

They can apply when the mother does.

Do they have to go for naturalisation much like their mother?

Children are REGISTERED. Only adults are Naturalised.

How does MN1 come into play?

MN1 is for children. Form AN is for adults.

[bathanza]

What is their situation with nationality?

They can apply when the mother does.

Do they have to go for naturalisation much like their mother?

Children are REGISTERED. Only adults are Naturalised.

How does MN1 come into play?

MN1 is for children. Form AN is for adults.

Perfect! Thank you for such a clear answer. Will post back for any further enquires. I believe there's a section in the MN1 form where you state under what rules in the BNA the application is referring to. Will do some research and get back. Thank you kindly (I'll have another notch under my belt with knowing about FLR, EEA PR and BC!)

[CR001]

Children born abroad apply under Section 3(1) of the BNA.

[bathanza]

Finally went through the MN1 and the AN forms this evening.

I wanted to make sure that we are completely fine with submitting all applications in one package to the home office? The MN1 needs to have parents marriage certificates, which is also needed for the AN form

Will it simplify matters if we just sorted the AN form (mother citizenship) first then the kids?

[CR001]

They can be sent together with a cover note.

[bathanza]

They can be sent together with a cover note.

Thanks so much for the confirmation. With the paper forms due to go offline and for it to turn into a local library/post office service, we are thinking of holding until this comes out locally. Maybe it'll be faster and easier (and can keep all passports from what I can see)

One very final question, which isn't clear in the booklet or the guidance notes. For the non-EEA spouse, who is going for citizenship, is 5 years worth of residency or her EEA husband's 5 year P60s required in the application? had a look at other topics on this board, it's not really clear some say they do some don't (but for EEA its for certain!)

[secret.simon]

With the paper forms due to go offline and for it to turn into a local library/post office service, we are thinking of holding until this comes out locally. Maybe it'll be faster and easier (and can keep all passports from what I can see)

You may not want to wait that long. As the children's citizenship application are dependent on the mother, it has been the usual practice to issue the children's registration certificates with the mother's naturalisation certificate at the citizenship ceremony. So, if the citizenship ceremony takes place after 29th March 2019, the children may end up losing German citizenship.

One very final question, which isn't clear in the booklet or the guidance notes. For the non-EEA spouse, who is going for citizenship, is 5 years worth of residency or her EEA husband's 5 year P60s required in the application? had a look at other topics on this board, it's not really clear some say they do some don't (but for EEA its for certain!)

She needs to prove five years of residence in the UK AND that she was physically present in the UK at the start of the five year period. If she has worked, her salary slips/P60s (not her husband's; she needs to prove her residence in the UK) can be used as evidence.

[bathanza]

With the paper forms due to go offline and for it to turn into a local library/post office service, we are thinking of holding until this comes out locally. Maybe it'll be faster and easier (and can keep all passports from what I can see)

You may not want to wait that long. As the children's citizenship application are dependent on the mother, it has been the usual practice to issue the children's registration certificates with the mother's naturalisation certificate at the citizenship ceremony. So, if the citizenship ceremony takes place after 29th March 2019, the children may end up losing German citizenship.

One very final question, which isn't clear in the booklet or the guidance notes. For the non-EEA spouse, who is going for citizenship, is 5 years worth of residency or her EEA husband's 5 year P60s required in the application? had a look at other topics on this board, it's not really clear some say they do some don't (but for EEA its for certain!)

She needs to prove five years of residence in the UK AND that she was physically present in the UK at the start of the five year period. If she has worked, her salary slips/P60s (not her husband's; she needs to prove her residence in the UK) can be used as evidence.

Thanks a lot for the information secret.simon. the only proof she has is council tax and tax credit. I told my friend to get as much info as possible, health records, bank statements etc. His wife worked for 6 months only so apparently there isn't much proof.

[bathanza]

Due to all the changes in services, we decided to fill out the application AN online with the children applying too

So much more simplified and easier to apply online. The home office application logic is pretty poor on a programme level so it's beside the point.

The supporting documentation doesn't reference the SELT reference or certificate number like the paper form. Shall we send copy just in case?

We will look at providing original passports and post photocopies of documentation required as that's what is stated. I want to make sure if the PR cards need to be sent as well as the resident permit or are copies sufficent?

The non eea national has NOT left the country since entering under EEA FM which is proven in passports of which one valid and one expired. 5 years of council tax bills will be sent JUST in case

I'm thinking a cover letter will clarify all points

[secret.simon]

The non eea national has NOT left the country since entering under EEA FM which is proven in passports of which one valid and one expired.

As the passports of family members of EEA citizens are not (or ought not to be) stamped on entry to the UK, passports will not be sufficient proof. As regards council tax, one would pay council tax even if the person is absent from the UK. Is there any other proof that the non-EEA citizen has to prove absence/presence in the UK?

[bathanza]

The non eea national has NOT left the country since entering under EEA FM which is proven in passports of which one valid and one expired.

As the passports of family members of EEA citizens are not (or ought not to be) stamped on entry to the UK, passports will not be sufficient proof. As regards council tax, one would pay council tax even if the person is absent from the UK. Is there any other proof that the non-EEA citizen has to prove absence/presence in the UK?

I appreciate the reply. Same concept with bank statements isn't it. Non EEA applicant is a house wife and only has the joint council tax and working tax credit proof. She worked for 6 months last year. Her husband is German and has been working throughout the presence in the UK.

Her passport only has entry stamps and has no incoming stamps again. That's the only proof she has :/

Any advice will be appreciated

[bathanza]

The wife has found 5 years of working tax credits in joint names and had council tax

Will be creating a cover note and adding extra docs with explanations.

Younger son has the red book but the elder one doesnt

I guess if the home office need more documents we can provide it

Looking at paying n posting next week

Any further advice will be appreciated.