Registered as a self-employed or a director of a new business

[Sha09]

Hi,

My question is about being registerer as a self-employer and as a director at a time of a new business. I switched from tier1 GE to tier1 Entrepreneur in janury 2017 due for extensiom in january 2020.

I got my visa on my medical supplies business in which i have invested 50k and created 2 full time employments.

I have secondary business, that i am doing as a self-employed. This business is about digital marketing, tutoring for acca students and website building.

Now when apply for extension, I will claim my points for my medical supplies business in which i have invested 50k and created employments. However, at extension application page 43 Section L. (L3) what should i opt? one the below or both?

Registerer as self employed
Registered as a director of a new or existing business

and then in Section M. page 44. Engaged in business activity at the time of the application for further leave

what should i opt? one of the below or both?

Registered as self employed
Register as a firector of a new business

My question is i am doing two businesses. One as a director and other as a self employed.

should i give details about both or just for the one i am claiming my points?

Am I doing wrong if i am a self-employed and earning through secondary business if my primary business is not in a position to pay me. However i am paying salaries to my employees in primary business theough the investment i made?

I am not self-employed in any other business. Its just i have my own clients who pay me through invoice and cash into my personal bank account and I did self assessment and paid tax for that.

Many thanks

[zimba]

You can choose any one of them for award of points. It is up to you and it makes no difference.

[Sha09]

Hi zimba, thanks for your reply. Do yoi have any knowlidge about my last two questions in the post?

[marcnath]

Hi,

My question is about being registerer as a self-employer and as a director at a time of a new business. I switched from tier1 GE to tier1 Entrepreneur in janury 2017 due for extensiom in january 2020.

I got my visa on my medical supplies business in which i have invested 50k and created 2 full time employments.

I have secondary business, that i am doing as a self-employed. This business is about digital marketing, tutoring for acca students and website building.

Now when apply for extension, I will claim my points for my medical supplies business in which i have invested 50k and created employments. However, at extension application page 43 Section L. (L3) what should i opt? one the below or both?

Registerer as self employed
Registered as a director of a new or existing business

and then in Section M. page 44. Engaged in business activity at the time of the application for further leave

what should i opt? one of the below or both?

Registered as self employed
Register as a firector of a new business

My question is i am doing two businesses. One as a director and other as a self employed.

should i give details about both or just for the one i am claiming my points?

Guess Zimba answered.

Am I doing wrong if i am a self-employed and earning through secondary business if my primary business is not in a position to pay me. However i am paying salaries to my employees in primary business theough the investment i made?

Nothing wrong here

I am not self-employed in any other business. Its just i have my own clients who pay me through invoice and cash into my personal bank account and I did self assessment and paid tax for that.

Whether this is a problem depends on what the nature of the work is. If it is equivalent to a contract for your time (similar to employment) then it is a violation of your visa terms

[Sha09]

Hi marcnath, Thanks for your reply. i provide personal tutoring service to acca students and charge them through invoicing them at hourly rate. I do not work for any other company. They are just my direct clients.

[marcnath]

Hi marcnath, Thanks for your reply. i provide personal tutoring service to acca students and charge them through invoicing them at hourly rate. I do not work for any other company. They are just my direct clients.

That should be fine

[Sha09]

I went to one immigration lawyer and she said my extension application will be refused on the basis of my self-employment as breached the conditions of stay.

Like i explained in my initial query, i worked a self-employed tutor, teaching acca students directly. And invoice them thorugh hourly rate and then they pay me in my personal account.

She said even if i claim my points over my other business where i am registered as a director, HO will check with HMRC about your self-employment and will refuse your application.

I check the Tier1 E guildines under ‘Conditions of Stay’;

“they cannot take up employment, other than working for the business or
businesses they establish, join or take over - working for such a business or businesses does not include any work the applicant does under a contract of service or apprenticeship with another business, whether:
o express or implied
o oral or written”

I clearly did not take any employment with any other business. I don’t know why she said i will get regused. Below are her wordings in her email:

“In these circumstances I am sorry to say that your extension application is likely to be refused.
The Tier 1 (Entrepreneur) policy guidance explains that you can work as a director of your own business or under a contract of service in genuinely self-employed capacity. What is prohibited, however, is work on a self-employed basis which effectively amounts to employment by another business. The Tier 1 (Entrepreneur) modernised guidance states:
‘For example, where the migrant’s work involves the business, in effect, hiring them for their labour or to fill a position or vacancy. This includes where the business hires the individual using a recruitment or employment agency.’

I am so stressed. Please share your experience and knowledge about this. What should i do in this case.

[marcnath]

I went to one immigration lawyer and she said my extension application will be refused on the basis of my self-employment as breached the conditions of stay.

Like i explained in my initial query, i worked a self-employed tutor, teaching acca students directly. And invoice them thorugh hourly rate and then they pay me in my personal account.

She said even if i claim my points over my other business where i am registered as a director, HO will check with HMRC about your self-employment and will refuse your application.

I check the Tier1 E guildines under ‘Conditions of Stay’;

“they cannot take up employment, other than working for the business or
businesses they establish, join or take over - working for such a business or businesses does not include any work the applicant does under a contract of service or apprenticeship with another business, whether:
o express or implied
o oral or written”

I clearly did not take any employment with any other business. I don’t know why she said i will get regused. Below are her wordings in her email:

“In these circumstances I am sorry to say that your extension application is likely to be refused.
The Tier 1 (Entrepreneur) policy guidance explains that you can work as a director of your own business or under a contract of service in genuinely self-employed capacity. What is prohibited, however, is work on a self-employed basis which effectively amounts to employment by another business. The Tier 1 (Entrepreneur) modernised guidance states:
‘For example, where the migrant’s work involves the business, in effect, hiring them for their labour or to fill a position or vacancy. This includes where the business hires the individual using a recruitment or employment agency.’

I am so stressed. Please share your experience and knowledge about this. What should i do in this case.

I can't comment on what your lawyer says - they are the professionals. It might make sense to approach another lawyer for a second opinion.

Or ask your lawyer which immigration clause specifically they think it is in violation of.

Tutoring is not what the T1E visa was intended for.

The only grey area I can think of is if you are using an agency who finds and allocates your students to you. That could be interpreted that you are being hired by the parents through an agency. It is still not a business hiring you but the model comes very close to the disallowed employment.

[Sha09]

Tutoring is a secondary business. It is for ACCA students. No inlovments of parents and agency betweem me and the students as they are mature students.

I asked the lawyer which condition makes me breach of condition of stay. She just sent me the the email with the wordings i posted in my previous reply.

I was aware that we can do as many as business we want as a company director or as a self-employed (except taking emploent in another business)

So i was doing these two businesses. One as a director and other as a self-employed.


What do you suggest a next course of action to fix this. I want to put forward my case simple amd straight.

many thanks

[marcnath]

Tutoring is a secondary business. It is for ACCA students. No inlovments of parents and agency betweem me and the students as they are mature students.

I asked the lawyer which condition makes me breach of condition of stay. She just sent me the the email with the wordings i posted in my previous reply.

I was aware that we can do as many as business we want as a company director or as a self-employed (except taking emploent in another business)

So i was doing these two businesses. One as a director and other as a self-employed.


What do you suggest a next course of action to fix this. I want to put forward my case simple amd straight.

many thanks

There is really nothing you can do to "fix" it.

And as you are confident you have followed the rules, there is nothing to "fix" either.

Since you are claiming all your points for the medical supplies business, you only need to provide information regarding that. If HO has an issue with the other business, they will have to come back to you and ask for information about that. You can make the arguments as you stated above at that point in time.

[Sha09]

Dear marcnath, thanks for your reply. i am just stressed out if i breached any condition of stay. Otherwise i am confident that i fulfill all the extension requirements. Its just that self-employed thing that came up.

Even i couldn’t find any point of doing self-employed business that matches any breach of condition of stay.

thats why i posted my concern here to see the review from people like you if I really breached the condition of stay or not.

[zimba]

This is more of an issue with your credibility as an Entrepreneur rather than breaching the Tier 1E rules. While you can register as self-employed under Tier 1E route, obviously certain activities will make you lose credibility as an entrepreneur. For example driving a taxi as an entrepreneur migrant is not credible so as tutoring, unless you run a tutoring business.
I remember few years ago a lot of Tier 1E visas were curtailed as the migrants were doing low skilled work with their visas like driving for Uber. This also led to changes in the Tier 1E 50K route.

[Sha09]

Hi Zimba, thanks for your reply. Its a tutoring business that i do as a self employed. And ofcourse being a teacher for acca students, teaching them taxation and management accounting is below the skill job? what do you think?

[zimba]

Hi Zimba, thanks for your reply. Its a tutoring business that i do as a self employed. And ofcourse being a teacher for acca students, teaching them taxation and management accounting is below the skill job? what do you think?

The problem is that UKVI has built a subjective measure of what is 'acceptable or 'credible'.
In my view, 'tutoring business' is something that is established business, ideally with several tutors and at least wide coverage of subjects/classes being taught. However if you are a one man band teaching to some students then you are in essence not running a tutoring business.
Similarly, a taxi driver is not running a taxi business but the guy who owns a taxi company does.