Am I a Citizen?

Hello all,

I am new here and I'm glad I found an outlet that may help me out in my quest for identity and heritage. I am 29 years old and I was born in Glasgow in 1984. As you all know the BNA 1981 took effect just a year prior and Birth in itself was no longer sufficient to grant citizenship. Other factors have to come into play for me to become a BC. one parent at least should be at the time of birth of the child either a BC, or settled in the UK. Both my parents were not UK citizens, however, I believe they were settled.

Looking up the definition of settled it appears that it is either having the right of abode or having an indefinite leave to remain. In pursuing this more, it says that if they had the right to live and work in the UK they are deemed settled. It gets tricky here. I do not have any of their old passports. My father has passed and all I could find for him was old documents from the time we lived in Glasgow. He was a Medical Doctor at the University of Glasgow. I found the letter of employment signed by the Dean of Medicine. I found an old checkbook and a check card from Clydesdale bank with his name on it. I also found an electric utility bill in his name. I do not know what my fathers status was in the UK. I do not know whether he had the right of abode or whether he had an ILR or any at all. All I know is that this does sound like they were settled in the UK. I have been living in the United States without a sense of identity. I want to live in Scotland. I want to live where I was born. I want to work and pay taxes there. I want to stop feeling like I live in a country that is not mine, nor will it ever be. Based on this information, I deduced that if they are considered "settled", then that means I am a citizen because at the time of the child's birth, a parent was either a citizen or normally resident in Scotland, no?

Do I have a case here folks?

Thank you for reading

Make a SAR on your parents to see what their status were at the time of your birth.
Alternatively, apply for confirmation of British nationality.
If you are not British, then did you spend the first 10 years in the UK?

vinny wrote:Make a SAR on your parents to see what their status were at the time of your birth.
Alternatively, apply for confirmation of British nationality.
If you are not British, then did you spend the first 10 years in the UK?

Thank you for your quick response. The SAR that you mentioned, is this a form that i will out and send off to get back information? When you say apply for confirmation of British Nationality, is this also a form that I fill out? where do I apply for confirmation and where do I make an SAR? I'm sorry I seem ignorant in these matters. I am more knowledgeable ( sadly ) in the American legal system.

Lucky for you that the UK legal system is a lot easier than the US legal system.

A subject access request is a written request for data that is held by an entity under the Data Protection Act. If you follow vinny's link, there is not a specific form to fill in. Please read http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/navig ... onal-data/ which states where you will send the request. You can only request the information they have on you so you cannot request information held on your father. A template letter is on the Information Commissioner's website. http://ico.org.uk/for_the_public/personal_information

For confirmation of British Nationality, the form, guidance notes and fee leaflet can be found: http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/briti ... t-british/

Your parents may request the information they have on them.

Okay sadly my parents are not able to request any information anymore. Here is where things get tricky at least on my end, when I read into the Home Office requirements. If anyone here is solidly familiar with the deeper meanings behind these words or phrases please help out.

I have come across these words

Settled

Right of abode

and then from the UKBA webiste it says

"If you were born in the UK to parents who are not British citizens and are not legally settled here

Even if you were born in the United Kingdom, you will not be a British citizen if neither of your parents was a British citizen or legally settled here at the time of your birth. This means you are not a British citizen if, at the time of your birth, your parents were in the country temporarily, had stayed on without permission, or had entered the country illegally and had not been given permission to stay here indefinitely."

Now my parents have entered the country legally. They have been living there legally. They did not have an indefinite leave to remain. However, upon delving into the meanings of these words above, it does seem like they had a right to be there. I could be wrong and this is where I need the help of someone who is familiar with topic beyond a casual understanding. They had utility bills issued to them in their name. They had a rented apartment in their name. They had a bank account with a check card and a check book and my father was a Doctor at the University of Glasgow Hospital, and I still have his letter of employment. So I know for a fact they entered the country legally and stayed there legally while my father went to school and practiced medicine. Does that count as settled? Him living there lawfully and during is time in the UK with his wife happen to have a child, does that qualify them as settled in the UK since everything that has to do with the entrance and life in the UK was legal? I have been pursuing this for 15+ years and so far no body seems to fully understand what settled means or what the right of abode is. I get so many conflicted answers.

Settled is defined under section 50 British Nationality Act 1981 which means that they had the right to stay in the United Kingdom indefinitely without immigration restrictions. In other words, it means that they had been granted Indefinite Leave to Enter or Citizenship. If your parents weren't granted ILR or naturalized then they are most likely not considered settled.

The right to abode is the right to live, work and settle in the United Kingdom without restriction. Post-1983, this was only British Citizens and certain Commonwealth citizens who had the right to abode.

In other words, if your parents had restrictions on them as to their ability to work and live (e.g. their visas were only for a certain number of years) in the UK then they did not have a right to abode nor were they settled. One can live in the UK for a number of years legally with a flat, bills, credit cards, etc. under a number of visas and, whilst for tax purposes is considered ordinarily resident, for immigration purposes isn't considered settled.

To be honest, it doesn't sound like you're a British citizen if your parents didn't have ILR/citizenship.

I tend to share your opinion in that I may most likely not be a citizen. Partly this sucks because my siblings who have been born prior to 1983 are. The ones who have not, are not. Now half the family lives in the UK and the rest in the US. Building up on that last bit, regarding settled, I have found this definition for right of abode on the UKBA website


Right of abode

The right to live and work in the United Kingdom.

Now what confuses me is that it does not restrict the length of the stay or define it. So if my parents had the right to live and work in the UK because they have entered legally, and have acquired jobs legally, does that mean that this aforementioned statement applies to them? It seems from a purely linguistic standpoint, my parents had the right of abode since they did indeed have the right to live and work in the United Kingdom. From a legal standpoint however, this might not be the case. Is this really all that defines the right of abode?

Worst comes to worse, I will have to try to apply for an ILR and live in Scotland for 5 years before applying for citizenship and renouncing my American citizenship.

Yes, that's the definition of the "right to abode". However, only two categories of people have that right - British citizens and Commonwealth citizens. See http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary

You normally cannot apply directly for ILR. You would need to be in the UK under a visa for a certain number of years before being eligible for ILR. This, if I remember correctly, depends on the visa category.

It's a very long and expensive road. Also, the immigration rules change all the time.

Why would you renounce your American citizenship? You can hold dual nationality.

Also, if you have parents or grandparents that have held another European nationality, you may wish to explore gaining residency in those countries and then seeing if you can get into the UK that way (as an EU worker exercising treaty rights). Bearing in mind that there are votes in the next few years for Scotland to leave the UK and the UK to leave the EU.

Have you spent a significant amount of time in Scotland recently? You talk about how you want to be Scottish, but realistically, your new community may always view you as American. You may want to seek some counselling for your identity issues before moving to Scotland because you may be disappointed when met with reality. I say this as an American who moved to the UK and onward to Australia and have faced these issues - and nobody really warns you about how difficult it is to assimilate (eve with best intentions) especially if you have an ideal scenario in your mind.

Well that sounds very discouraging, regarding immigration and the length of the process. However, if you say that Commonwealth citizens have the right of abode, I may have a shot through my wife. She is a Canadian Citizen. Now I haven't not lived recently in Scotland no, and I am very aware that I will be faced with a slight cultural shock. What I'm after is just a personal peace of mind knowing I can live where I was born. I have always wanted this. I have no other issues in my life. I am an engineer and happily married. However, there remains this pinching feeling, or that curiosity about ones point of origin. My family had a good life in Scotland. I want to be able to say more than just sensationally, I belong to where I was born. I cant really say that thanks to Madam Thatcher and her ghastly BNA 1981 that took this right from me, and all other children born in Scotland after 1983.

I even tried filing through my great grand parents whom were born in British protectorate and the other, in a British Mandate. I have passports from 50 years ago but the process is very complicated. I'm not sure where to start.

As far as Scotland and the Independence are concerned, I really don't have very high hopes. Seems like the would be republic is already following a bureaucratic route. Scottish citizenship is tied to British citizenship which I find rather strange. They should have their own set of conditions for their own government, that are non related to previous citizenship. Either y right of birth or blood, not by what your national origin is. To make a long story short, the SNPs long held promise of citizenship for every Scottish born person is no more. They went back on their word for some reason and with that I'm back to square one.

Seems my only viable shot is through my wife and her blessed commonwealth citizenship.

If you're an engineer then you may want to investigate any job opportunities in oil & gas (based in Aberdeen, mostly), if applicable, to see if an employer would sponsor you. Alternatively, work for a US company who also has operations in Scotland (e.g. Shell, Chevron, BP), and see if they have secondment opportunities in Scotland.

Your wife's Commonwealth citizenship is not the only criteria for applying for a certificate of entitlement for right of abode (see the previous link).

Slightly separately, if one of her grandparents was born in the UK then she might qualify for a Ancestry visa. Also, if you were a Canadian citizen and passport holder under the age of 31 and childless, you would be eligible for a Youth Mobility Visa.

There are also a number of categories that you can investigate to see if those routes are viable to your personal circumstances.

I am not sure you can claim through your great grandparents. All of mine were born in Ireland pre-1922 which gave my mother options, but did not give me any options.