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I get it with Murphy's law but didnt understand the cat parallel and the actual definition.Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:That is a combination of Murphy's law and Schrödinger's cat as applied for European free movement.mcovet wrote:ha ha the problem is, it may work every time without any questions by IOs, when your eea is around, but won't ironically work when you travel alone, as it usually happens
Thanks Directive for suggesting I do a SAR, but what benefits will it serve me? I probably know all the info they've got about me. Do you see this changing anything, or can further steps be taken after getting this file to make sure they delete past immigration history?Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:You should definitely complain.
You should also definitely do a SAR: http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/navig ... onal-data/
That will give you a copy of your file.
They can update inaccurate info held about you but not delete it. However, as you are under EU law, they cannot take into account any of your past transgressions unless you present a current threat to public security, health or some other public policy, which is a VERY high threshold! So you are okbluecole2 wrote:Thanks Directive for suggesting I do a SAR, but what benefits will this serve me? I probably know info they've got about me. Do you see this changing anything, or can further steps be taken after getting this file to make sure they delete past immigration history?Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:You should definitely complain.
You should also definitely do a SAR: http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/navig ... onal-data/
That will give you a copy of your file.
I am not sure if I understand this.bluecole2 wrote:One thing that baffles me is that my passport didn't get stamped by the French immigration on entry and exist and when asked whether I needed a visa on entry the guy said I do but when I mentioned we mentioned my eea rights stuff, he replied; this is what I do everyday. You travel without a visa and you'll see. On exist I way also told I need a visa.
I expected to get a stamp on my passport to show the dates I entered and exist France but that wasn't the case.Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:I am not sure if I understand this.bluecole2 wrote:One thing that baffles me is that my passport didn't get stamped by the French immigration on entry and exist and when asked whether I needed a visa on entry the guy said I do but when I mentioned we mentioned my eea rights stuff, he replied; this is what I do everyday. You travel without a visa and you'll see. On exist I way also told I need a visa.
I have Schengen entry and exit stamps splattered all over my passport and not once did a border guard hesitate to do so. I however challenge the UK border guards who either request that I fill out a landing card or gesture to stamp my passport.Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:If you have a Residence Card, then border guards should not be stamping your passport. In fact it is illegal for them to do so.
So I have to call a premium rate number and ask to see an embassy official? Any known reason why calls can't be made direct to the French?mcovet wrote:there is a way to apply without using TLS service. You have to call them and INDICATE that you would prefer a direct application, this way there will be an official from the French Embassy who would accept your application.
If your Slovenian is not good enough, I would stick with a language like English. They should all speak at least some of it.Plum70 wrote:I really cannot be bothered to learn God knows how many languages to be able to intelligibly argue my case at other EU borders. Learning French while keeping my cool is challenging enough!
There's where guards both at entry and exist of the Frence border and entry at uk border neither of them stamped my passport that includes a type C Schengen visa.mcovet wrote:bluecole2 you should keep you answers to those addressing relevant questions ONLY! So, if they ask you are you working, you can say that you derive your rights from your EEA family member who is working herself/himself. If they ask you questions about your fam member then again, it depends if questions are relevant. Their border manual says that they must keep their questions to the minimum if:
1) you have the Residence Card (as this kind of indicates your eligibility already);
2) most importantly, if you are travelling together with your family member!
Don't be afraid to stand up for your rights and respond in a cool, collected manner.
The main questions they normally ask are: what's your family member's nationality, where are they now, how long have you been away, why is your fam member not with you (irrelevant, but no need to make a big deal), what is your family member's occupation (i.e. how are they exercising treaty rights). If questions deviate too far from these ones, you may object and ask them to stick to those relevant questions which ascertain that you are STILL entitled to be in the UK.
As regards Plum's note on stamping passports. Need to clarify one thing, the UK border guards may NOT stamp passports (Regulation 11(1) I think of the 2006 Regs) and/or demand landing card to be filled out (based on Article 24 of Directive 2004/38 on equality, which basically says that if EU/Brits aren't required to bark, neither should their family members! It is also clear from their own Border Force Manual).
As regards French and other Member States stamping passports, this is because if you have a Schengen visa AND travel alone (are not joining or accompanying your EEA fam member), you are not exercising the Free Movement Directive rights and are subject to the standard procedure.
Also, even if you are travelling together with your family member, as far as I am concerned, unless you obtain a residence permit from one of the Schengen states, they will keep stamping your EEA RC from UK. But yes, if you have a Schengen visa issued, then expect it to be stamped by everyone except UK border guards.
Plum, you case is a tiny bit different as a Swiss spouse. The UK treats Swiss spouses in the same way as if they were EU (but only because there are so few of them and it would be a pain to do otherwise). That does not necessarily mean that other EU countries must do the same. Switzerland does not have to nor does comply with the directive.Plum70 wrote:I have Schengen entry and exit stamps splattered all over my passport and not once did a border guard hesitate to do so. I however challenge the UK border guards who either request that I fill out a landing card or gesture to stamp my passport.Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:If you have a Residence Card, then border guards should not be stamping your passport. In fact it is illegal for them to do so.
I really cannot be bothered to learn God knows how many languages to be able to intelligibly argue my case at other EU borders. Learning French while keeping my cool is challenging enough!
Without commenting on the French position, one could easily enter via anther neighboring state>bluecole2 wrote:Hi guys,
My wife had recently complained to Solvit regarding this matter. Surprisingly, it's Solvit UK that replied. This is their response below which I'm absolutely unsatisfied with. Please advice me on how to Take this matter forward.
The response of the French Authorities appears to be that, as a French national, your marriage needs to be registered and a Livret de Famille presented with the application. It appears from the correspondence that, as France does not recognise your marriage, the relationship is then not recognised for the purposes of issuing your husband with a visa under EC legislation.
I am aware that marriage does not fall under EC legislation, and it is therefore not possible to overturn any formalities of Member States in respect of the recognition of the marriage. If France requires all marriages involving French nationals to be registered in France, then it will not recognise the marriage for the purposes of identifying your husband as meeting the definition of spouse under Directive 2004/38/EC.
Article 24 does not appear to have been transposed in UK law...mcovet wrote:bluecole2 you should keep you answers to those addressing relevant questions ONLY! So, if they ask you are you working, you can say that you derive your rights from your EEA family member who is working herself/himself. If they ask you questions about your fam member then again, it depends if questions are relevant. Their border manual says that they must keep their questions to the minimum if:
1) you have the Residence Card (as this kind of indicates your eligibility already);
2) most importantly, if you are travelling together with your family member!
Don't be afraid to stand up for your rights and respond in a cool, collected manner.
The main questions they normally ask are: what's your family member's nationality, where are they now, how long have you been away, why is your fam member not with you (irrelevant, but no need to make a big deal), what is your family member's occupation (i.e. how are they exercising treaty rights). If questions deviate too far from these ones, you may object and ask them to stick to those relevant questions which ascertain that you are STILL entitled to be in the UK.
As regards Plum's note on stamping passports. Need to clarify one thing, the UK border guards may NOT stamp passports (Regulation 11(1) I think of the 2006 Regs) and/or demand landing card to be filled out (based on Article 24 of Directive 2004/38 on equality, which basically says that if EU/Brits aren't required to bark, neither should their family members! It is also clear from their own Border Force Manual).
As regards French and other Member States stamping passports, this is because if you have a Schengen visa AND travel alone (are not joining or accompanying your EEA fam member), you are not exercising the Free Movement Directive rights and are subject to the standard procedure.
Also, even if you are travelling together with your family member, as far as I am concerned, unless you obtain a residence permit from one of the Schengen states, they will keep stamping your EEA RC from UK. But yes, if you have a Schengen visa issued, then expect it to be stamped by everyone except UK border guards.
This would make perfect sense, and it will most likely be issued.bluecole2 wrote:...And it doesnt make sense to apply for visa with another schengen country while traveling with my spouse, moreover it unlikely it would be issued...
