FLR (LR) Application refused

[Infofreak]

History:
08/02/15-28/06/14: had student visa
28/06/14: made an in time entrepreneur visa
22/07/14: visa refused
06/08/14: Lodge an appeal to FT
03/10/14:FT dismissed on paper
14/10/14: made an application for permission to appeal to FT
03/12/14: Permission to appeal to FT refused
17/12/14: application to appeal to the UTT
30/03/15: Permission to appeal to UTT refused
30/03/15: appeal rights exhausted. 3C leave ended
13/04/15: applied for FLR (LR)
18/04/15: got a letter that my claim would be considered on a human rights basis
30/06/15: got IS96 to report at Becket house.

Situation:

Even though I had submitted my fresh application within 28 days after my 3C leave, the HO has treated it as out of time application.

they have just given me 5 days to consult and book my tickets to go. I have consulted with my solicitor and he says we are going for a JR.

Question:

1. Does 28 day grace period not apply after the 3C leave ends?
2. Can i leave the country and while am away my solicitor fights my case at the JR?
3. I have been reporting to the Becket house since 10/07/2015. Will I be detained now?
4. Can i be detained even if we lodge the JR?
5. Any solutions?

Any help would be much appreciated!!
Thank you!

[Infofreak]

So many views and not even one suggestion?? This is really dissapointing!!

[Infofreak]

I applied for flr (lr) because my passport was with home office and i did not have any pther form of ID to give my LIUK test. I did ask them my passport for which i idis not get any response from the HO.
Really anxious for some responses here!!
Thank you!

[Zee ali]

History:
08/02/15-28/06/14: had student visa
28/06/14: made an in time entrepreneur visa
22/07/14: visa refused
06/08/14: Lodge an appeal to FT
03/10/14:FT dismissed on paper
14/10/14: made an application for permission to appeal to FT
03/12/14: Permission to appeal to FT refused
17/12/14: application to appeal to the UTT
30/03/15: Permission to appeal to UTT refused
30/03/15: appeal rights exhausted. 3C leave ended
13/04/15: applied for FLR (LR)
18/04/15: got a letter that my claim would be considered on a human rights basis
30/06/15: got IS96 to report at Becket house.

Situation:

Even though I had submitted my fresh application within 28 days after my 3C leave, the HO has treated it as out of time application.

they have just given me 5 days to consult and book my tickets to go. I have consulted with my solicitor and he says we are going for a JR.

Question:

1. Does 28 day grace period not apply after the 3C leave ends?
2. Can i leave the country and while am away my solicitor fights my case at the JR?
3. I have been reporting to the Becket house since 10/07/2015. Will I be detained now?
4. Can i be detained even if we lodge the JR?
5. Any solutions?

Any help would be much appreciated!!
Thank you!

On what basis u apply flr lr? exact date u complete 10 years and date u put FLR LR.

1. HO did the wrong thing here. HO should not consider 28 days period as overstay after 3c exhausted.

2. How can u even think about it? If u leave the country than u wont come back again.

3. Yes they can

4. Yes

5. wait for your JR outcome. If the things r same like u describe than HO will change their initial decision.

[geriatrix]

03/10/14:FT dismissed on paper
14/10/14: made an application for permission to appeal to FT

AFAIK, when FTT dismisses and appeal the next step is to seek permission to appeal to the UTT.
But you sought permission to appeal to the FTT .... again? Is that legally allowed?

[Zee ali]

03/10/14:FT dismissed on paper
14/10/14: made an application for permission to appeal to FT

AFAIK, when FTT dismisses and appeal the next step is to seek permission to appeal to the UTT.
But you sought permission to appeal to the FTT .... again? Is that legally allowed?

i think OP meant Permission to appeal to FTT to UT.

[Infofreak]

sushdmehta wrote:
Infofreak wrote:
03/10/14:FT dismissed on paper
14/10/14: made an application for permission to appeal to FT
AFAIK, when FTT dismisses and appeal the next step is to seek permission to appeal to the UTT.
But you sought permission to appeal to the FTT .... again? Is that legally allowed?


i think OP meant Permission to appeal to FTT to UT.

Yes @zee ali it was permission to appeal to Ftt to UT

[Infofreak]

History:
08/02/15-28/06/14: had student visa
28/06/14: made an in time entrepreneur visa
22/07/14: visa refused
06/08/14: Lodge an appeal to FT
03/10/14:FT dismissed on paper
14/10/14: made an application for permission to appeal to FT
03/12/14: Permission to appeal to FT refused
17/12/14: application to appeal to the UTT
30/03/15: Permission to appeal to UTT refused
30/03/15: appeal rights exhausted. 3C leave ended
13/04/15: applied for FLR (LR)
18/04/15: got a letter that my claim would be considered on a human rights basis
30/06/15: got IS96 to report at Becket house.

Situation:

Even though I had submitted my fresh application within 28 days after my 3C leave, the HO has treated it as out of time application.

they have just given me 5 days to consult and book my tickets to go. I have consulted with my solicitor and he says we are going for a JR.

Question:

1. Does 28 day grace period not apply after the 3C leave ends?
2. Can i leave the country and while am away my solicitor fights my case at the JR?
3. I have been reporting to the Becket house since 10/07/2015. Will I be detained now?
4. Can i be detained even if we lodge the JR?
5. Any solutions?

Any help would be much appreciated!!
Thank you!

On what basis u apply flr lr? exact date u complete 10 years and date u put FLR LR.

1. HO did the wrong thing here. HO should not consider 28 days period as overstay after 3c exhausted.

2. How can u even think about it? If u leave the country than u wont come back again.

3. Yes they can

4. Yes

5. wait for your JR outcome. If the things r same like u describe than HO will change their initial decision.

Exact date of my 10 years completion was 12/02/2015.
Applied FLR(LR) on the basis of completing 10 years. But due to lack of ID for LIUK test could not fulfill this one criteria hence applied for FLR (LR) instead of ILR.

Can any one of you suggest me how can i avoid being detained?
How is it possible to regularise my stay here in the uk until the JR proceeding?

[Obie]

The Home Office is clearly wrong.

I believe is a strongly worded pre action protocol is sent to them, this will prevent a JR and you will not be detained.

I hope this helps.

[Infofreak]

The Home Office is clearly wrong.

I believe is a strongly worded pre action protocol is sent to them, this will prevent a JR and you will not be detained.

I hope this helps.

Thank you!!
Applying for a JR as well as appealing for the right to appeal in country. We have said the same thing over and over to the HO in all the letters and application since march 2015. I dont know why they are making ot so hard and lengthy for me!!

[Infofreak]

Update: Got the PAP reply from the home office according to them

"under our revised guidelines regarding section 3C leave to remain, it is true that a period of 28 days is granted after the expiry of section 3C leave in which the claimant is provided with time to either leave the UK or seek to regularize their stay here. However, that does not mean that any application for further leave to remain submitted during that 28 day period is regarded as in-time and that any refusal of that application therefore affords the applicant an in-country right of appeal.

Under section 3C of the 1971 Act your leave to remIN EXPIRED ON 30/03/15 WHEN YOUR APPEAL RIGHTS became exhausted and article 8 application of 13/4/1 was therefore correctly treated as out of time, the refusal of which did not afford you a right of appeal from within the UK."

This is really frustrating. I have read and read about the rules regarding the 28 days grace period and 3C leave and also have discussed it with various solicitors and never heard of a certain criteria only where you are allowed to apply for a fresh application!!
I always thought if applied in time all the time you are given that 28 days for fresh application.Please correct me if i am wrong.

Gurus please help!!!

[Infofreak]

Any help/Suggestions??

@Obie??
@Zee Ali??
@gurus??

waiting for replies impatienty!!

[Obie]

My views is not that they are wrong on the fact that section 3C ceases ti have effect when right of appeal expired.

They were wrong in treating FRL (LR) as a FLR (FP) and to refuse a right of appeal, coz the policy after 6th April 2015 requires them to give a write of appeal.

Home Office and your lawyer appears slightly confused 8nbthis case.

[Infofreak]

My views is not that they are wrong on the fact that section 3C ceases ti have effect when right of appeal expired.

They were wrong in treating FRL (LR) as a FLR (FP) and to refuse a right of appeal, coz the policy after 6th April 2015 requires them to give a write of appeal.

Home Office and your lawyer appears slightly confused 8nbthis case.

Could you kindly explain this further Obie please!!

Do you mean that the 28 days grace period is not valid after the 3C ceases to have effect?

I am going to lodge a JR now. But, also trying to recheck if i had done anything wrong at any point but it seems to me that i have done all the processes in time and properly.
If there was a point where i have done any mistakes i dont want to go for JR and waste my money!!

[Zee ali]

My views is not that they are wrong on the fact that section 3C ceases ti have effect when right of appeal expired.

They were wrong in treating FRL (LR) as a FLR (FP) and to refuse a right of appeal, coz the policy after 6th April 2015 requires them to give a write of appeal.

Home Office and your lawyer appears slightly confused 8nbthis case.

Could you kindly explain this further Obie please!!

Do you mean that the 28 days grace period is not valid after the 3C ceases to have effect?

I am going to lodge a JR now. But, also trying to recheck if i had done anything wrong at any point but it seems to me that i have done all the processes in time and properly.
If there was a point where i have done any mistakes i dont want to go for JR and waste my money!!

Why they refused your flr lr?

Any application after 3c leave exhaust counts OUT OF TIME even if it submitted within 28 days.

[Obie]

We are not arguing about the existence of Section 3C here.

The argument if i understand it correctly, is whether or not the Secretary of State is entitled to refuse a FLR(LR) that was made within 28 days of a person's section 3C leave expiring, and then certifying that appeal, when that person has acquired the necessary 10 years lawful residence, and an application is made within 28 days of leave expiring.

If my understanding is correct , then the Home office is wholly wrong in what they did, and if they refuse to overturn it, then JR must follow.

[Infofreak]

Thank you Obie.

@zee ali: Yes I get it that the 28 days is counted out of time. But I could not have applied for a new application until my appeal exhausted. And i completed my 10 yrs while the appeal was on process so i applied for flr(lr) as my new application for which they put me under human rights and then refused!
Do you still think that my application is not supposed to be given that 28 days grace? If so why?

Also, could you guys please explain me how does the JR process work? is my solicitor supposed to do everything or i have to?

Your help is much appreciated.

Thank you!

[Obie]

I don't think the solicitor set out the legal position properly in the pre action protocol.

A proper PAP has to be sent setting out the issue and a JR filed within 3 weeks if the decision is not rescinded .

The issue is not section 3C.

In my opinion, you meet all the contortions under 276 for the grant of extension under the long residency provision.

Home office seem to be 100% wrong.

[Infofreak]

I don't think the solicitor set out the legal position properly in the pre action protocol.

A proper PAP has to be sent setting out the issue and a JR filed within 3 weeks if the decision is not rescinded .

The issue is not section 3C.

In my opinion, you meet all the contortions under 276 for the grant of extension under the long residency provision.

Home office seem to be 100% wrong.

So I have 3 weeks to lodge the JR?
I have reporting tomorrow and JR will not be lodge until then. I am really scared that they might detain me!

[Obie]

Why can't JR be lodged sooner.

I think your lawyer was wrong to mention section 3C . It simply does not exist.

He needs to send a PAP that properly reflect your case against Home Office. You have no case on Section 3C basis and the lawyer ought to have known that.

[Infofreak]

Why can't JR be lodged sooner.

I think your lawyer was wrong to mention section 3C . It simply does not exist.

He needs to send a PAP that properly reflect your case against Home Office. You have no case on Section 3C basis and the lawyer ought to have known that.

Section 3C was mentioned because before they did not acknowledge my 3C leave to be legal and said that my leave expired when my visa expired and hence i did not apply within the 28 days. After sending them a letter explaining to them that I dont fall under human rights claim as i applied in time and for flr(lr) not sort of assylum, they did not respond to this and later gave me a refusal. This time they did acknowledge my 3C leave but not the 28 days after it.

Obie are you saying that my solicitor should send another PAP?? are we allowed that??

JR is not being lodged earlier because i just recieved the PAP response on tuesday and my solicitor said he needs some time prepare the grounds. Can you also explain to me how is the JR lodged?

[MyGodisable]

@InfroFreak,

This new UT Judgement on "28 days grace" to put in new application will help you. This case was just determined and published this year 2016. There's realistic prospect of success in your case.

The case is: The Queen on the application of Jyotika Priyesh Bhudia v Secretary of State for the Home Department http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKUT/IAC/2016/25.html.

Goodluck.

[Infofreak]

@InfroFreak,

This new UT Judgement on "28 days grace" to put in new application will help you. This case was just determined and published this year 2016. There's realistic prospect of success in your case.

The case is: The Queen on the application of Jyotika Priyesh Bhudia v Secretary of State for the Home Department http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKUT/IAC/2016/25.html.

Goodluck.

Thank you @MyGodisable. much appreciated!

[Infofreak]

Update:

I received a letter from the treasury solicitor saying that they consider it appropriate to offer a reconsider, on the terms set out in the consent order.

The consent order has the following

" Upon the Respondent agreeing to reconsider the Applicant's application for the leave to remain;
By Consent, it is ordered that:
1. The applicant do have leave to withdraw the above-numbered claim fro JR
2. There be no order as to costs. "

Also with these attached was a Acknowledgement of service form where the "Intend to contest all of the claim" is ticked.

I am a bit confused here. They say they are willing to reconsider but at the same time they are not giving me any point to think why i should withdraw JR. Does this letter mean that they will grant me the Visa??

Could anyone throw some light here please!!

[Infofreak]

Update:

I received a letter from the treasury solicitor saying that they consider it appropriate to offer a reconsider, on the terms set out in the consent order.

The consent order has the following

" Upon the Respondent agreeing to reconsider the Applicant's application for the leave to remain;
By Consent, it is ordered that:
1. The applicant do have leave to withdraw the above-numbered claim fro JR
2. There be no order as to costs. "

Also with these attached was a Acknowledgement of service form where the "Intend to contest all of the claim" is ticked.

I am a bit confused here. They say they are willing to reconsider but at the same time they are not giving me any point to think why i should withdraw JR. Does this letter mean that they will grant me the Visa??

Could anyone throw some light here please!!

Please help! I am really confused as to what step to take next. and what this letter means.