Visa Required?

Hi just another question.I`m British my wife and kids are Brazilian and we are living in Brazil.
We are coming to live in Ireland very soon,but have decided that it is best If I go first and secure a house,job etc.
In this case does my wife need a join spouse visa? I`ve read a lot of conflicting information about this.

Can anyone shed any light on this.Some places It says my wife only needs her Passport,wedding certificate and proof that I`m exercising my treaty rights,such as rental agreement,employment contract etc.Other places I look it says that she would need a join spouse visa.

It might be wise for her to apply for an EU Family Permit before travelling to join you.

Thanks for the reply.Why do you say it would be wise to maybe get an EU family permit?

To avoid the risk of being refused entry, etc.

This is where I get confused Is it not European law that she is allowed to join me,with just marriage cert etc.There is so much conflicting information.

The fee for the family permit is so small and at least provides peace of mind. This is my opinion.

Looking at all your past posts, it would be helpful to keep to just one to avoid cinfusion.

http://www.immigrationboards.com/member/wannago/posts/.

http://www.immigrationboards.com/irelan ... l#p1168882

Your wife should therefore be ok to enter. I however always err on the side of caution hence suggesting the EU Fam Perm.

Thanks again for your input CR001...it`s just that there is so much conflicting information.I`m getting a headache looking at it all

She should be able to enter with no problem either as a tourist (I don't believe Brazilian citizen need a visa to visit Ireland as a tourist) or as a family member showing your marriage certificate as well as a letter from you stating your are in Ireland and she is joining you (even better if you can also join a proof of residence in Ireland).

If you want to be sure she won't get any hassle, you can also have her apply for a visa to join an EEA family member. This will be free of charge and all she will need is a copy of your UK passport and some document showing you are in Ireland.

Also to clear any confusion: EEA family permits are a UK only thing and there is no such thing in Ireland.

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/WP07000022

Also to clear any confusion: EEA family permits are a UK only thing and there is no such thing in Ireland

Thank you for clarifying.

CR001 wrote:http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/WP07000022

Also to clear any confusion: EEA family permits are a UK only thing and there is no such thing in Ireland

Thank you for clarifying.

No pb - and just for the sake of completeness as the different terms can be confusing when people start looking into this:

An EEA family permit is an immigration pre-clearance document for family members of EEA citizens to enter the UK under European directive 2004/38/EC (i.e. without a visa): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EEA_family_permit
People need to apply for it online and provide supporting documents to their local UK embassy before traveling to the UK.

Ireland (or other EU countries aside from the UK) doesn't issue that type of document and the right to enter the country under the European directive is granted directly at the port of entry by the border control officer.

Ireland has an immigration stamp called "Stamp 4EUFam" (meaning EU citizen family member) for family members who wish to stay longer than 3 months, but it is not an initial entry document and can only be applied for when both the EU citizen and their non EU family member are in Ireland.

Thanks again jeupsy.I found this following extract from the directive,so we should be OK as it seems to be law.

CHAPTER III
Right of residence
Article 6
Right of residence for up to three months
1. Union citizens shall have the right of reside
nce on the territory of a
nother Member State for a
period of up to three months without any conditions
or any formalities other than the requirement to
hold a valid identity card or passport.
2. The provisions of paragraph 1 shall also a
pply to family members in possession of a valid
passport who are not nationals of a Member St
ate, accompanying or joining the Union citizen.

No problem - and yes this is the relevant section of the directive.

Also for your reference what is referred to as "residence card to family members of a Union citizen" in the directive (which your spouse will need to stay longer than 3 months) is what is called a GNIB card with Stamp 4 EUFam in Ireland.

Thanks again mate.Though once again just as I thought everything was OK,I came across something else which throws things into confusion.

Ireland

In Ireland, the Directive is transposed into the European Communities (Free Movement of Persons) (No. 2) Regulations 2006[20] amended by SI 310 of 2008[21] in reaction to the Metock case[8] and amended by SI 146 of 2011 allowing visa free entrance with a residence card issued by another EEA member state.[22]

Thanks for the replies so far,but things still seem unclear.Is there a definitive legally correct answer.Surely if it is in European Law then that is it,but alas it seems not.
I sent an email to the Your Europe advice center outlining what we intended to do and if a visa was required or not.The response we received was ambiguous as is everything that I have looked at.
Here is the response.


Dear Mr.,
Thank you for your enquiry to the Your Europe Advice service.
It is possible for your family members to travel to Dublin airport and then present their passports, your marriage certificate and birth certificates to obtain entry to Ireland to join you there pursuant to Article 5(4) of Directive 2004/38/EC. However, this route is not recommended as your family members may be subject to delays and the airline may not allow them to travel without the necessary visas.
Instead, your wife and children should apply for Type C short term visas through the Irish Embassy to join you in Ireland. These visas should be granted to them for a period of three months. They should be granted without charge or formality or delay (Article 5, Directive 2004/38/EC). You can find further information about the procedure to obtain Type C visas and apply online through the following website: http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/Fa ... 20citizens
On arrival in Ireland and before expiry of their visas, your family members can then apply for residence cards. To do so, they are required to submit Forms EU1 together with supporting documentation to the Irish Naturalization and Immigration Service. You can download a copy of the Form EU1 from the following website: http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Form%20E ... %20EU1.pdf
I trust that the above information is of some assistance to you. Should you have any further queries in relation to your rights in the EU, please do not hesitate to revert to the Your Europe Advice service.
Yours sincerely,
Your Europe Advice

Basically, the the EU directive specifies that they can enter without a visa - but it means the decision is made on the spot at the airport so it might generate some delays if something isn't clear (for example if there is any doubt about a document your wife is presenting to the border control officer) - but they have to give her every opportunity to clarify the situation.

This is why they are suggesting to get a visa (and I was listing it as a possible option): the EU directive makes it free of charge and fairly hassle free to get for family members of EU citizens, and once she has it she is very unlikely get any type of trouble at the airport.

So all 3 options are available to her:
- enter as a tourist without a visa (maybe not the one I would recommend but should work)
- enter and an EU citizen family member without a visa (just book the flight to Ireland and off she goes, but possible delays at the airport)
- enter and an EU citizen family member with a visa (more work before departure, but smoother entry in Ireland)

Thanks once again Jeupsy,things are clearer now.
do you know if the Immigration Council of Ireland are a reputable organization?
I saw this on their website.

Non-Visa Required Family Members3
If your family members do not need a visa to travel to Ireland, they cannot make an application for family reunification in advance of their arrival in Ireland. They must first legally enter Ireland. After their arrival, they are required make an application for residency in the State as the family member of an EU national. Detailed information on this application process is set out below.

Visa Required Family Members
If your family members need a visa to travel to Ireland, they will first need to apply for a visa as part of the application for family reunification.

Yes I believe their are well established and reliable.

The paragraph you quoted is a bit confusing though as they are talking about two different things when they mention applying for family reunification (visa application and residence card application). While they can be seen as the same process these two applications are different things (on is done at an Irish embassy and processed by the department of foreign affairs, the other is done in Ireland and processed by the department of justice).

The visa is not mandatory (by I believe possible) in your case, but whether she gets a visa or she will need to make a residence card application once she is in Ireland if she is going to stay longer than 3 months and/or wants a clear authorisation to work in Ireland (and having a visa won't influence the residence card application one way or another).

I think they mean that after the initial entry,if staying longer than 3 months a residence card is required.
It`s good to know that they are a reliable source.Thanks again.