when can I apply citizenship for child on settlement visa

kingascona · Post by **kingascona** » Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:43 am

Hi Raj,

The Chapter 9.17.26 refers to the following, as a requirement parents have to meet in order to register their child:

Citizenship and immigration status of the parents

9.17.9 We should normally expect that:
a) at least one parent is a British citizen or
b) one of the parents has applied to be registered or naturalised as a British citizen and the application is going to be granted (if the parent’s application is to be refused, we should normally refuse the minor’s application as well);
and

c) the other parent is either settled in the United Kingdom (see Annex F to Chapter 6); or
d) whilst not settled, is unlikely in the short or medium term to be returnable to his or her country of origin (eg s/he has been granted Discretionary Leave), and there is otherwise no reason to think that the child’s future does not lie in the United Kingdom.

9.17.10 If the parents have divorced or separated and the child does not have ongoing contact with the other parent (even if he or she shares parental responsibility for the child) we would normally expect that:
a) the parent having the day-to-day responsibility for the child is, or is about to become, a British citizen; or
b) is settled here but not a British citizen and there are good reasons why registration would be appropriate, taking into account the examples given in 9.17.11 below

9.17.11 It will rarely be right to register a child neither of whose parents is or is about to become a British citizen. However, each case should be considered on its merits, and there may be exceptional circumstances to justify registration in a particular case, such as for example:

a) older teenagers who have spent most of their life here, or
b) minors who require British citizenship in order to follow a particular career (for example, sport, Armed Forces, etc),
and
c) the minor's future can clearly be seen to lie in the United Kingdom,
and, in relevant cases only,
d) the person making the application has day to day care and responsibility for the child's upbringing, and either is, or is about to become a British citizen but see section 9.21 on applications made by guardians.

9.17.12 An application which falls outside these criteria should not normally be approved, even if there are British citizen siblings or siblings with entitlements to registration as a British citizen, unless we are satisfied that registration would be in the child's best interests.

Consent of the parent
9.17.13 We should normally expect both parents to give consent to the registration. The main reasons for this, the exceptions which can be made, and what to do in cases of difficulty, are set out in 9.18 below.

9.17.14 The way in which consent is given may vary according to the circumstances in which the application is made:
a) If the application is made on Form MN1, then either;
i. both parents should have signed part 16(a); or
ii. there should be an accompanying letter of consent from the non-applicant parent
b) If both parents have made a joint application for citizenship, and any minors are included in only one parent's form, we may assume that the consent of the other parent has been given
c) If only one parent is applying for citizenship and any minors are included in the application, then we should expect a letter of consent from the other parent
d) We may also judge that consent has been given if the other parent has good reason for not putting it in writing (for example, if, by formally giving consent, the child would lose his existing nationality, which happens, for example, under Swedish law) but we are nevertheless satisfied from the circumstantial evidence that the other parent is willing for the child to be registered

Chapter 9.17.9 is very clear on Citizenship and immigration status of the parents and you don't need a magician to tell you. Moreover, it contradicts what Vinny said. Unless Vinny can quote a specific chapter to support what he/she said, then treat it as speculations which has no proof.

kingascona · Post by **kingascona** » Mon Mar 24, 2014 5:19 am

Hi Raj,

I had an argument with the officer at the council and some people from the Home Office when I was doing nationality checking service for my kids application. Their argument was that my kids needs ILR before I can register them.

I disagreed with them and after stating my case and referred them to Chapter 9.17.24, Chapter 9.17.25 and Chapter 9.17.26, we had to wait out for an expert from the Home Office came and clarified that on the phone, he said we are eligible to register our kids.

The Section 3(1) Chapter 9 of the British nationality Act 1981 is a guidance note or instructions which the Home Office has to strictly follow to access an application under section 3(1), so stops you from registering your child if both the child and the parents meet all the requirement set out in that document?

It is very quite clear in that document so read it through thoroughly and if somebody say otherwise which contradict the document, then let the person quote or prove it. Don't take speculations as facts.

satish333 · Post by **satish333** » Mon Mar 24, 2014 2:24 pm

satish333 wrote:
Jambo wrote:1. Yes.
2. No.
3.2. No. They should have ILR.

Read the FAQ.
HI Jambo
As per King (posted the document evidence ) , ILR is not madatory when registering child as a BC, provided the application meets all other criteria.

So, Is there any document evidence for your answer "3.2. No. They should have ILR" ?

Many thanks in advance

Raj

vinny · Post by **vinny** » Tue Mar 25, 2014 2:10 am

I think that it's safer if the overseas-born child has ILR. There are no guarantees that they will otherwise use discretion in child's favor.

Why take an unnecessary risk of a refusal?

kingascona · Post by **kingascona** » Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:11 pm

Vinny wrote: "I think that it's safer if the overseas-born child has ILR. There are no guarantees that they will otherwise use discretion in child's favor."

King's Response: "If a child acquires ILR but that child was born abroad to non-British parent at the time of birth, that child will still be considered under Section 3(1) Chapter 9 of the British Nationality Act 1981. So irrespective of whether the child (born abroad to non-British parent at the time of birth) has ILR or dependent visa, that child will still have to be registered under Section 3(1) Chapter 9 of the British Nationality Act 1981 which enables registration of minors at discretion. So you see, they will still use their discretion for a child with ILR who was born abroad to non-British parent at the time of birth.

Vinny, if so then there is also no guarantee that they will in otherwise use discretion in the child's (who has ILR) favor. A child who is not eligible for registration as a British citizen will necessarily or definitely need ILR before that child will be eligible for registration after 12 months of his/her ILR.

Also, a child may have ILR (for 12 months or more) but that child will still not be eligible for registration as a British citizen, if that child spends 6 months or more abroad (where parents are not serving in the HM Forces or under Crown Service), which is a clear indication that the child does not leave here permanently and therefore the child's future does not lies here.

Vinny, there is no where in Section 3(1) Chapter 9 of the British Nationality Act 1981 that says the child should have ILR. Chapter 9.17.24 to Chapter 9.17.26 says ILR is less important if the child meets the other normal criteria for registration set out in 9.17 and the parents meet the criteria set out in 9.17.9 to 9.17.14.

The following also talks about the LENGTH OF RESIDENCE in the United Kingdom and not ILR:

Children under 13
9.17.18 The length of residence in the United Kingdom is less important for children under 13. If we are satisfied that their future lies here, and that registration would otherwise be appropriate, we need not normally take into account the length of residence here. There will be plenty of time for the children to establish their own personal connections with the United Kingdom before they become adults.

Children aged 13 or over
9.17.19 We should normally expect a minor child aged 13 or more to have completed 2 years residence in the United Kingdom before agreeing to registration.
9.17.20 Applications for the registration of minors aged 16 or more on first arrival in the United Kingdom should normally be refused since they will have had too short a period to establish personal connections with this country at a time in their lives when their future plans are unclear. Each case must, however be considered on its merits, and a minor in these circumstances may be registered if there are grounds for doing so. Some examples of the sorts of cases in which it might be right to register a minor with less than 2 years residence are given below.

Minors with less than 2 years residence
9.17.21 There will be occasions when a child (of whatever age) has less than 2 years residence here but it would nevertheless be reasonable to register. Examples are:
a) if the firm offer of a job in the UK (particularly with HM. Forces, the police or the Civil Service) depends upon British citizenship
b) if the minor is 2 months or less short of meeting the 2 years residence expectation at the date of consideration of the application and either:
i. would still be a minor at the end of the 2 months period; or
ii. would reach the age of majority before the end of the 2 months, (and thus could not reapply under s.3(1) at that time) but was prevented from coming here earlier through circumstances beyond the family's control; or
iii. there are compelling compassionate reasons for accepting a shorter period of residence, or a refusal would cause the child considerable hardship (for example, a mentally disabled minor who might be unable to take the oath of allegiance as an adult - see 9.13); or
iv. the minor would be the only member of the family who would not become a citizen (i.e. the minor is included in a 'family' application); or
v. applications have been made on behalf of more than one minor and at least one is under 13. There may be a case for registering the older ones despite the lack of 2 years residence in the United Kingdom; or
vi. the minor's residence is broken (ignoring short holidays etc) but periods of residence may be aggregated.
9.17.22 These are only guidelines, and it does not necessarily follow that every minor who fits one of them should be registered, even if they meet the other normal criteria.
9.17.23 Equally, there may be other cases outside these guidelines where registration of a minor with less than 2 years residence appears to be justified. We must be ready to consider the circumstances of each case, and to take into account any representations made or any relevant factor.

Vinny, stop thinking or assuming because assuming things which has no facts or legal backing fuels speculation. I want you to quote from the Section 3(1) to support your claim rather than assuming."

Vinny wrote: "Why take an unnecessary risk of a refusal?"

King's Response: "I strongly believe Vinny's submission and claim are baseless with no factual proof. Remember, you can only apply for ILR at premium service (One day service) if it is a straightforward application; otherwise you will have to send the application by post if it is not a straightforward application and moreover, it can take up to 12 months to get a decision if you post it. I would say it is therefore waste of time, resources and money to apply for an Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR) for a child who in addition with the parents, meets all the criteria in Section 3(1) Chapter 9 of the British Nationality Act 1981

Section 3(1) Chapter 9 of the British Nationality Act 1981 is a directive set out by the Secretary of State, which instructs the Home Office to register minors (who meets all the criteria as well as their parents) as British citizens.

The Home Office is going to use its discretion base on the information provided by the applicant to determine whether the application should be granted or not.

The onus is therefore on the applicant to provide enough evidence or prove that he/she meets all the requirement set out in Section 3(1)."

Section 3(1) Chapter 9 of the British Nationality Act 1981 is not for decoration, it is there for a purpose to help the Home Office as well as us.

vinny · Post by **vinny** » Tue Mar 25, 2014 10:09 pm

Chapter 9: registering minors at discretion (nationality instructions) wrote:Conditions of stay

9.17.24 We should normally expect a minor to be free of conditions of stay because the future of a child whose stay is restricted does not clearly lie here (see 9.17.2). Registering a minor who is on conditions has the effect of cancelling their conditions because, on becoming a British citizen, the minor would cease to be subject to immigration control.

9.17.25 We should therefore normally refuse an application for the registration of a minor whose stay in the United Kingdom is restricted to a specific period.

9.17.26 But if one or both parents are British citizens who have come to the United Kingdom to live permanently, then this may be less important,
if:

a. the minor meets the other normal criteria for registration set out in 9.17; and

b. the parents meet the criteria set out in 9.17.9-9.17.14 above, then we should consider whether registration would be appropriate.

9.17.27 If the minor is on restrictions but otherwise meets the normal criteria for registration, we should consult the relevant immigration CMU to see if they wish to remove restrictions. If they do not, we should consider their reasons before deciding whether to approve or refuse registration.

9.17.24 and 9.17.25 clearly imply that it normal, and therefore safer in my view, for the child, if the child also has ILR. Else, they would have to consider 9.17.26 and 9.17.27 further.

kingascona · Post by **kingascona** » Tue Mar 25, 2014 10:46 pm

vinny wrote:
Chapter 9: registering minors at discretion (nationality instructions) wrote:Conditions of stay

9.17.24 We should normally expect a minor to be free of conditions of stay because the future of a child whose stay is restricted does not clearly lie here (see 9.17.2). Registering a minor who is on conditions has the effect of cancelling their conditions because, on becoming a British citizen, the minor would cease to be subject to immigration control.

9.17.25 We should therefore normally refuse an application for the registration of a minor whose stay in the United Kingdom is restricted to a specific period.

9.17.26 But if one or both parents are British citizens who have come to the United Kingdom to live permanently, then this may be less important,
if:

a. the minor meets the other normal criteria for registration set out in 9.17; and

b. the parents meet the criteria set out in 9.17.9-9.17.14 above, then we should consider whether registration would be appropriate.

9.17.27 If the minor is on restrictions but otherwise meets the normal criteria for registration, we should consult the relevant immigration CMU to see if they wish to remove restrictions. If they do not, we should consider their reasons before deciding whether to approve or refuse registration.
Clearly, 9.17.25 implies that it safer for the child if the child has ILR. Else, they would have to consider 9.17.26 and 9.17.27 further.

Vinny, why did you stop at 9.17.25 and did not continue to 9.17.26? It doesn't even say it is safer or mandatory for a child to have ILR in 9.17.25. Moreover, it is stated clearly in 9.17.26 that 9.17.25 is less important if the child meets other requirement in 9.17 and one parent is a British Citizen and the other parent has ILR. So read both 9.17.25 and 9.17.26. Don't let me believe you are still confuse with 9.17.25 and 9.17.26.

So your argument about 9.17.25 is less important or redundant if the child and the parents meet the requirement set out in 9.17.26.

Remember 9.17.26 supersedes 9.17.25. In other words, 9.17.26 makes 9.17.25 redundant if the child and the parents meet the requirement set out in 9.17.26.

You cannot base your argument on 9.17.25 because it has been overshadowed by 9.17.26.

vinny · Post by **vinny** » Tue Mar 25, 2014 10:49 pm

You are ignoring/forgetting the uncertainty in 9.17.27.

kingascona · Post by **kingascona** » Tue Mar 25, 2014 11:10 pm

vinny wrote:You are ignoring/forgetting the uncertainty in 9.17.27.

There is uncertainty if the child do not meet the requirement set out in 9.17.26 and has restrictions on his/her status.

vinny · Post by **vinny** » Tue Mar 25, 2014 11:39 pm

If meeting the conditions set out in 9.17.26 was sufficient to supersede 9.17.24 and 9.17.25 on its own, then 9.17.27 would be redundant.

I'm not saying that the application would definitely fail, if the child does not have ILR. I'm just saying that there are two more hurdles, 9.17.26 and 9.17.27, to go through.

kingascona · Post by **kingascona** » Tue Mar 25, 2014 11:42 pm

vinny wrote:If meeting the conditions set out in 9.17.26 was sufficient to supersede 9.17.24 and 9.17.25 on its own, then 9.17.27 would be redundant.

I'm not saying that the application would definitely fail, if the child does not have ILR. I'm just saying that there are two more hurdles, 9.17.26 and 9.17.27, to go through.

Well, my kids didn't have ILR but theirs went through. So I am talking from experience.

vinny · Post by **vinny** » Tue Mar 25, 2014 11:45 pm

Good for you!

Perhaps it may be clearer on how they decide, if we have statistics to see how many children without ILR have failed or succeeded with Section 3(1) applications.

Note that the statutory requirements are very open ended:

3 wrote:(1)If while a person is a minor an application is made for his registration as a British citizen, the Secretary of State may, if he thinks fit, cause him to be registered as such a citizen.

kingascona · Post by **kingascona** » Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:14 am

Just yesterday, my friend also received his daughter's registration certificate via post. My friend who naturalized as a British citizen 3 years ago, his wife has ILR since November 2013.

Their daughter (6 years old) who was born in Ghana and was on dependent visa which expired in June 2013. Before June 2013, they applied for an extension (Visa) for their daughter but only to be told in February 2014 that they used the wrong visa Forms after waiting for about 8 months; their visa fee was refunded to them.

I advised them not to bother or waste their money applying for an extension or ILR for her and therefore should register their daughter as a British citizen since the father is a British Citizen and the mother has ILR and also the daughter meet the requirement in 9.17. They heed to my advice.

If a child who was not in the UK, who was on dependent visa (that expired in June 2013) has been granted British citizenship in April 2014 then that confirms my claim that a minor do not need ILR under Section 3(1) to be registered as a British citizen provided the child and parents meet the requirement set out in Section 3(1) Chapter 9 of the British Nationality Act 1981.

It has worked for my two boys who were both born in Ghana and it has also worked for my friend's daughter. The family is very pleased and I am also pleased.

One of my friends will apply for an ILR for the wife (not including his 3 kids) in September 2014 and then go ahead and register his 3 kids who were born in Ghana and are on dependent visas which expires in October 2014. The wife will go for a premium service. My friend is going to save over £2,000 for not including the kids in the wife's ILR application.

I will keep you informed of the outcome.

satish333 · Post by **satish333** » Mon May 05, 2014 12:54 am

kingascona wrote:Just yesterday, my friend also received his daughter's registration certificate via post. My friend who naturalized as a British citizen 3 years ago, his wife has ILR since November 2013.

Their daughter (6 years old) who was born in Ghana and was on dependent visa which expired in June 2013. Before June 2013, they applied for an extension (Visa) for their daughter but only to be told in February 2014 that they used the wrong visa Forms after waiting for about 8 months; their visa fee was refunded to them.

I advised them not to bother or waste their money applying for an extension or ILR for her and therefore should register their daughter as a British citizen since the father is a British Citizen and the mother has ILR and also the daughter meet the requirement in 9.17. They heed to my advice.

If a child who was not in the UK, who was on dependent visa (that expired in June 2013) has been granted British citizenship in April 2014 then that confirms my claim that a minor do not need ILR under Section 3(1) to be registered as a British citizen provided the child and parents meet the requirement set out in Section 3(1) Chapter 9 of the British Nationality Act 1981.

It has worked for my two boys who were both born in Ghana and it has also worked for my friend's daughter. The family is very pleased and I am also pleased.

One of my friends will apply for an ILR for the wife (not including his 3 kids) in September 2014 and then go ahead and register his 3 kids who were born in Ghana and are on dependent visas which expires in October 2014. The wife will go for a premium service. My friend is going to save over £2,000 for not including the kids in the wife's ILR application.

I will keep you informed of the outcome.

Hi King,
Thanks for sharing the information

Best Regards
Raj

hforreal · Post by **hforreal** » Mon Aug 04, 2014 4:16 pm

Hi,

Can I get some opinions here for registering my non-UK born child using 3(1) before he turns 18 next year? My child has been living in the UK for 4 years on EEA family permit but no PR status yet. He arrived UK when he was 13.

I just became BC by naturalisation and my EEA husband holds PR. My child is from my previous marriage but I owned the sole custardy.
In this case, I believe I am the only one who needs to give consent for registering my child.

My concern is about PR status of my child. Should I concern? By the time he gets his PR, he is over 18 and cannot be registered using 3(1).

Please kindly let me know if I should go ahead to register him before he turns 18.

amitna · Post by **amitna** » Thu Feb 26, 2015 1:29 pm

Hi,

I am planning to apply for Naturalization in May 2015 for myself , my wife and my son- age 5.5 years(registration under MN1). All three of us have ILR granted on April 2014 and have 5 years stay counting backwards from May 2015 and absences under 450 days.
Under Section 3(1) can I apply my sons registration with our naturalization application. What should we write in the section 1.1 of MN1 form "Please indicate the section of the British Nationality Act 1981 under which you would like the application considered."--------------.
Also, should we ignore Section 3 of MN1 completely or which subsections in Section 3 are applicable for my son.

Many Thanks in Advance.

CR001 · Post by **CR001** » Thu Feb 26, 2015 1:41 pm

Please indicate the section of the British Nationality Act 1981 under which you would like the application considered."--------------

#

As it appears he was born outside the UK, his application will be under Section 3(1) of the BNA 1981.

You don't need to complete section 3 for the child.

On what date did you get ILR in April 2014??

kingascona · Post by **kingascona** » Thu Feb 26, 2015 1:56 pm

amitna wrote:Hi,

I am planning to apply for Naturalization in May 2015 for myself , my wife and my son- age 5.5 years(registration under MN1). All three of us have ILR granted on April 2014 and have 5 years stay counting backwards from May 2015 and absences under 450 days.
Under Section 3(1) can I apply my sons registration with our naturalization application. What should we write in the section 1.1 of MN1 form "Please indicate the section of the British Nationality Act 1981 under which you would like the application considered."--------------.
Also, should we ignore Section 3 of MN1 completely or which subsections in Section 3 are applicable for my son.

Many Thanks in Advance.

Has your son got ILR?

amitna · Post by **amitna** » Thu Feb 26, 2015 1:58 pm

Sorry, I didnt mentioned, we all three are born in INdia and have indian citizenship, ILR was granted to us on 2nd April 2014. So do we need to mention "Section 3(1)" in box OR " British citizens under Section 3(1) Chapter 9 Subsection-9.17.9 of the British Nationality Act 1981" or do we need to mention it in detail on MN1 Page 14 "FURTHER INFORMATION NOTCOVERED IN OTHER SECTIONS" explaining that the Section 3 has been ignored because of the application is requested to be considered under Section 3(1).

Incase myself and wife's application is accepted, I beleive my son registration will be accepted without any issues, is it a common or a rare case. Is there any possibility of rejection under discretion.

CR001 · Post by **CR001** » Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:04 pm

Sorry, I didnt mentioned, we all three are born in INdia and have indian citizenship, ILR was granted to us on 2nd April 2014. So do we need to mention "Section 3(1)" in box OR " British citizens under Section 3(1) Chapter 9 Subsection-9.17.9 of the British Nationality Act 1981" or do we need to mention it in detail on MN1 Page 14 "FURTHER INFORMATION NOTCOVERED IN OTHER SECTIONS" (No, HO are aware of the rules) explaining that the Section 3 has been ignored because of the application is requested to be considered under Section 3(1).

Incase myself and wife's application is accepted, I beleive my son registration will be accepted without any issues, is it a common or a rare case. Is there any possibility of rejection under discretion.

Discretion is just that, it can go either way. He only qualifies when one of his parents are British but you can make an application for all 3 at the same time.

You do realise that the fees are going up on 6th April, hence my question on the date of your ILR.

amitna · Post by **amitna** » Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:11 pm

Hi,

In summary we all three can apply at the same time, even though none of us is a british citizen, please correct if I am wrong?

Also, can we apply 28 days before eligbility?

Thanks

CR001 · Post by **CR001** » Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:15 pm

In summary we all three can apply at the same time, even though none of us is a british citizen, please correct if I am wrong? Yes, but if you want to err on the side of caution, you can do your childs application once you or your spouse has been approved and ceremony attended. There is no discount for joint or family applications.

Also, can we apply 28 days before eligbility? No, this concession is not available for naturalisation applications. You can apply on or after 2nd April 2015 provided you meet all the standard requirements and that each person applying was physically present on exactly the same date 5 years before.

amitna · Post by **amitna** » Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:35 pm

Thanks.

Are these applications treated separately. What I mean to ask here is, my application wont be rejected because of any issue in my Son's application, similarly for my wife. I am aware that if one of the parent's application is rejected automatically my son's application will be rejected.

CR001 · Post by **CR001** » Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:44 pm

Your son will be refused if both of his parents are unsuccessful. He only qualifies if you do which is why it is an application at discretion, he has no entitlement to register if you stay on ILR. Hence why I said you could apply for his once either you or your spouse are British.

Each applicant needs to meet the requirements individually. There is no 'naturalisation dependent' scenario. If your spouse is refused, it will not have an impact on your for example.

sheena121 · Post by **sheena121** » Sat Oct 03, 2015 12:32 pm

Hello everyone ,

can my daughter apply for MN1 registration for British citizenship on 3 (1) section act of non British parents ,she lawfully lived in UK 5 years , now she is 10yr old,so anybody s opinion may be helpful ... ..... reply it plz

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