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what Visa should I apply for my wife and daughter

Family member & Ancestry immigration; don't post other immigration categories, please!
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drarunb
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what Visa should I apply for my wife and daughter

Post by drarunb » Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:35 pm

Dear expert friends,
I would be grateful if you can advice me here. I recently got my ILR following 5 years as Tier 1 visa holder status. My wife was with me from the begining (July 2009)but had to leave for India due to maternity reasons. While she was in In India her Tier 1 dependent status expired and hence there was a discontinuity. She applied for the entry permit while in India with a gap of 80days. She is now in the UK with me.
I understand that since her visa was not extant while abroad she was not eligible to apply for ILR along with me. My understanding was that her next option was to apply for either FLR(m) or the Tier 1 dependent. The cost of of Tier 1 dependent Was 1700 plus (also this option is going to be taken away) and as adviced by the fellow members here, I decided to to go for the FLR(m ). Thee FLRm can only be applied once I had my ILR biometric permit in hand Unlike usual ILR applications.
By today the rules have been upgraded With NHS fees.
Also the it says in the webpage that it is not possible for applicants whose partner has got ILR from a work visa as below In the link
https://www.gov.uk/remain-in-uk-family/overview

You may need to apply in a different way if:

you’re outside the UK
your partner’s from the EEA or Switzerland
your partner originally had a temporary visa as a worker
you’re the victim of domestic violence or your partner has died
you applied for a ‘family of a settled person’ visa before 9 July 2012
you want to reunite with a partner or parent who has asylum or humanitarian protection in the UK

Please would anyone help me to decide what visa she and my daughter can apply from here in the UK.
Thanks
Arun

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Re: what Visa should I apply for my wife and daughter

Post by CR001 » Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:42 pm

They can continue to extend as T1 dependants until they meet the residence requirement for ILR.

Health surcharge of £200 per year per dependent is payable at application of extension time.
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drarunb
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Re: what Visa should I apply for my wife and daughter

Post by drarunb » Tue Apr 07, 2015 2:41 am

Thanks CR001.
So you think it is a definite No No for FLR(M) for a PBS migrant dependent?
I had called up the UK Visas helpline. Got 2 different replies. I said You cannot apply via FLR(m) for PBS route settlement and this is only applicable for Long route settlement.
The other replied it is possible. Now I am confused. Furthermore as per the transitional rules page from November 2014, if a person having dependent visa goes abroad and the visa expires, then this dependent cannot avail the Transitional rule and they must apply visa Appendix FM.
Reading the appendix FM it says this guidance is not applicable for the PBS dependents.
Really confusing.
I would have preferred to apply by FLR(M) if it permits as my wife has tick boxed all the eligibility criteria.

Please advice
Thanks
Arun

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Re: what Visa should I apply for my wife and daughter

Post by vinny » Tue Apr 07, 2015 3:05 am

What category was her entry clearance?
How long was it granted for?
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drarunb
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Re: what Visa should I apply for my wife and daughter

Post by drarunb » Tue Apr 07, 2015 10:54 am

Thanks Vinny.
She Initially came with me on Tier2 dependent visa along with me by 7/7/2009. We together Converted to Tier 1 on 23/03/2010.

Lived in the uk for about 3 years before she went back. To India for Maternity reasons and could be only back to the UK by 4/08/2014.
While in India her Tier 1 dependent visa expired and could be only renewed in 80 days gap From India.

I Had to get my ILR sorted first as I believed she needs my ILR BRP details for her FLR(m) application. I thought FLR m would be the appropriate visa for her. But confused with the findings In the Appendix Fm and rule 8 (transitional provisions) updates
Please help.
Thanks
Arun

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Re: what Visa should I apply for my wife and daughter

Post by vinny » Tue Apr 07, 2015 10:58 am

What type of entry clearance did she last apply for? Was this before or after you got ILR?
How long was it granted for?
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Re: what Visa should I apply for my wife and daughter

Post by drarunb » Tue Apr 07, 2015 12:58 pm

She renewed her Tier 1 dependent status last on 20/06/2013.
Both of us came to UK on Tier 2 on 7/7/2009 but changed to Tier1 general status On 23/03/2010 and this was valid initially till 23/03/2013. Her visa got expired while she had the long break in India But I could extend my Tier 1 visa further till 19/04/2015 while I was in the UK.
I got my ILR recently on PBS(tier 1 general ) grounds after staying for 5 years in the UK, on 21/02/2015.
She and my daughter are still on Tier 1 dependent visa expiring on 19/04/2015. Only 12 days to go. My choices are
1. Apply for FLRm for her self and my daughter if eligible through my Tier 1 general migrant Route ILR visa (cost 2x£649)
2. Apply for Tier1 dependent extension costing £1736 for each plus the NHS surcharges of £600 per head for 3 years.
3. Apply for Tier 1 dependent for them from India (cost £935 plus NHS surcharges ) which would turn out to be a bit cheaper and still without the hazzles of overstaying. But i am not sure about any long term complications of this.
Please advice

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Re: what Visa should I apply for my wife and daughter

Post by vinny » Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:51 pm

1. If her leave was granted/valid for longer than six months and she satisfies the requirements in the relevant categories, the she has a choice of switching to FLR(M) or extending as a PBS dependant.
2. Possible.
3. She cannot apply for entry clearance as a PBS dependant, as you have ILR.

The NHS surcharge applies in all cases.
This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any given links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
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drarunb
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Re: what Visa should I apply for my wife and daughter

Post by drarunb » Tue Apr 07, 2015 2:30 pm

Thanks Vinny.
When you say about relevant category requirement, only contra for her for FLR (M) is that I as her partner had a PBS visa ( short) before I got ILR. Which is an exception in the link. Couldn't find anywhere where a PBS route ILR migrants dependent is eligible for FLR(M). Even the appendix FM says that this guidance is not for PBS route dependents! She has all the other qualifications of FLR(M) though.
Do I have a stand here?
Thanks
Arun

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Re: what Visa should I apply for my wife and daughter

Post by vinny » Tue Apr 07, 2015 3:37 pm

Was her leave valid for longer than six months?
If she satisfies all the requirements of Appendix FM and Appendix FM-SE, then she may apply for FLR(M).
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Re: what Visa should I apply for my wife and daughter

Post by Amber » Tue Apr 07, 2015 5:52 pm

PBS dep leave would be most advisable I think given that you don't know what your circumstances will be when you come to extend. Moreover, if she's had leave continuously since June 2013 she'll really only need one PBS dep extension rather than the two required under Appendix FM.
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drarunb
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Re: what Visa should I apply for my wife and daughter

Post by drarunb » Wed Apr 08, 2015 12:44 am

@ Vinny
Her Leave to remain is from 20/06/2013 till 19/04/2015 which is more than 6 months and is the renewal of Tier 1 dependent visa which was given as per rules before 6th April 2010.
The guidance notes for FLR(M) states that
You must not use this form to make an application for an extension of stay in the following categories:
• As the partner of a serving member of HM Armed Forces under Appendix Armed Forces of the
Immigration Rules. You must complete form FLR(AF).
• On the 10 year Partner route under Appendix FM of the Immigration Rules. You must complete form FLR(FP).
• As the partner of a person granted indefinite leave to remain in a work route, if you are currently in the UK as their dependant. See our website for further details: https://www.gov.uk/visas- immigration

At the moment she is on Tier 1 dependent Visa although I have changed it to ILR (PBS).

@ Amber Tier 1 dependent visa might be taken off in the near future looking at how they are dealing with the Tier 1 migrant visa itself.

Would have to pay £5500 for my wife and daughters visa if I go through PBS extension (Tier 1 general ) which costs £1736 per head compared to £649 for FLR(M)
you reckon that both(PBS dep and FLR(M)) are options to choose? I wish someone says FLR(M) is applicable for dependents of ILR holders whose ILR was obtained via PBS route.
Thanks
Arun

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Re: what Visa should I apply for my wife and daughter

Post by Amber » Wed Apr 08, 2015 12:46 am

Yes where the main applicant settled (was granted ILR) as a PBS applicant, a dep who is currently a PBS dep, may continue and/or extend as such or switch to FLR(M). Don't blame us if the wording of the application is poor.
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drarunb
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Re: what Visa should I apply for my wife and daughter

Post by drarunb » Wed Apr 08, 2015 11:47 pm

I understand what you are saying. But the following are the points for and against it

1. In the guidance notes for FLR(M) link https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... _04-15.pdf mentions on page2 it says
To qualify for an extension of stay in the categories of the Immigration Rules for which you have to use form FLR(M), you must meet the relevant requirements in the following parts of the Rules:
• Part 8 Family members -Transitional provisions for spouses and partners
• Appendix FM – Family life as a partner – 5 year

2. Page 2 of the FLR(M) guidance also says
You must not use this form to make an application for an extension of stay in the following categories:
• As the partner of a serving member of HM Armed Forces under Appendix Armed Forces of the
Immigration Rules. You must complete form FLR(AF).
• On the 10 year Partner route under Appendix FM of the Immigration Rules. You must complete form FLR(FP).
• As the partner of a person granted indefinite leave to remain in a work route, if you are currently in the UK as their dependant. See our website for further details: https://www.gov.uk/visas- immigration

3. Appendix FM link Nov 2014
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... Routes.pdf
suggests on page 7

This guidance does not apply to applications made as the partner of a Relevant Points Based System (PBS) migrant who has been granted indefinite leave to remain as a PBS migrant where the migrant partner applies under the PBS provisions under Part 8. It does however apply to partners of Relevant PBS Migrants who are applying under Appendix FM for leave to remain in the UK, whose partner has been granted indefinite leave to remain under the long residence provisions of the Immigration Rules.

Immigration Directorate Instruction
Family Migration:
Chapter 8 Transitional Provisions
Family Members under Part 8 and Appendix FM of the Immigration Rules
November 2014

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... r_2014.pdf
Says on page 13
Where the application was made on or after 9 July 2012:
3.8.6. Where Article 8 is raised as part of an application under a PBS route in an application submitted on or after 9 July 2012, the applicant should be informed that provision now exists within the Immigration Rules for those wishing to remain in the UK on the basis of their family or private life. Accordingly, the following paragraph should be used when refusing PBS applications in which an Article 8 claim has been raised:
“In your application for leave to remain as a [enter relevant PBS route] you have raised the fact that you also wish to rely on family or private life established in the UK pursuant to Article 8 of the ECHR. On 9 July 2012 the Immigration Rules were amended and now include provisions for applicants wishing to remain in the UK on the basis of their family or private life. These Rules are in Appendix FM (family life) and paragraph 276ADE(1) (private life). If you wish the Home Office to consider an application on the basis of Article 8, you must make a separate charged application using the appropriate specified application form (FLR(M) for the 5-year partner route, or FLR(FP) for the 10-year partner route, the 5- or 10-year parent route, or the 10-year private life route). For more information please consult gov.uk: https://www.gov.uk/government/organisat ... mmigration”.

says on page 16
From 6 April 2014, all those granted leave to enter or remain as a PBS dependant, who then wish to apply for leave as the partner of a settled person (including where their partner who was a relevant PBS migrant gained indefinite leave to remain on the basis of Long Residence) are required to apply for leave under Appendix FM.
4.5.4. This is because paragraphs 284 and 295D of the Immigration Rules were amended to restrict switching by PBS dependants who have leave as the partner of a relevant PBS migrant. From 6 April 2014, they are not able to switch into the Rules for partners of settled persons under Part 8. The PBS dependant will either need to apply for indefinite leave under the Points Based System if they can qualify, or apply for limited leave to remain as a partner under Appendix FM.
4.5.5. PBS dependants who have already switched to being the partner of a settled person under Part 8 (or have applied to do so before 6 April 2014) can continue under Part 8 and apply for indefinite leave to remain under paragraph 287 or 295G. Their period of leave as a PBS dependant can be combined with their leave as the partner of a settled person to meet the required qualifying period.

Although FLR(M) as an application form is not allowing the Currently PBS dependent applicants whose partner have obtained ILR in 5 year route, The point No.3 here is somewhat promising but I am not able to understand this fully.
I gather That the application through Appendix FM is via FLR(M) (at least in my wifes case).
But does Appendix FM itself is meant for long route ILR dependents??

Would you please help me by putting some light in this topic. Although you say thos with current PBS dependent living in the UK whose partner have obtained ILR visa a 5 year PBS route can apply through FLR(M) for partner visa, I am trying to get a documentary evidence to substantiate it so that I can enclose it in the application.
Confusing indeed. please help

drarunb
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Re: what Visa should I apply for my wife and daughter

Post by drarunb » Wed Apr 08, 2015 11:59 pm

This also says that you can amalgamate the PBS dependent visa period with the Spouse visa period towards the ILR.

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Re: what Visa should I apply for my wife and daughter

Post by vinny » Thu Apr 09, 2015 1:12 am

Rules trumps Guidance.

Cannot amalgamate the PBS dependent visa period with the Spouse visa period towards the ILR under Appendix FM.
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drarunb
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Re: what Visa should I apply for my wife and daughter

Post by drarunb » Thu Apr 09, 2015 6:17 am

4.5.5. PBS dependants who have already switched to being the partner of a settled person under Part 8 (or have applied to do so before 6 April 2014) can continue under Part 8 and apply for indefinite leave to remain under paragraph 287 or 295G. Their period of leave as a PBS dependant can be combined with their leave as the partner of a settled person to meet the required qualifying period.

drarunb
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Re: what Visa should I apply for my wife and daughter

Post by drarunb » Thu Apr 09, 2015 6:42 am

Thanks Vinny.
Would you pls mention the page or paragraph of the immigration rules mentions this . I would be grateful. l ve been struggling to localise that part.

drarunb
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Re: what Visa should I apply for my wife and daughter

Post by drarunb » Thu Apr 09, 2015 6:56 am

What is the visa given as under part 8 rule for the partners of a settled person
Is this not spouse visa through FLR(m)
How different is this spouse visa from the one applied through Appendix FM.
Iam confused here. Please help

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Re: what Visa should I apply for my wife and daughter

Post by vinny » Thu Apr 09, 2015 3:20 pm

The changes on 6th April 2014 prevents PBS dependants from switching to FLR(M) under Part 8. However, they may switch to FLR(M) under Appendix FM, if they meet the requirements.
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drarunb
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Re: what Visa should I apply for my wife and daughter

Post by drarunb » Thu Apr 09, 2015 6:55 pm

Thanks. Are the application form for FLR(M) same for both routes?

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Re: what Visa should I apply for my wife and daughter

Post by vinny » Fri Apr 10, 2015 12:51 pm

Choice:

PBS dependant.
FLR(M) (same form for 2-year route under Part 8 and 5-year route Appendix FM. However, Part 8 won't be applicable).
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drarunb
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Re: what Visa should I apply for my wife and daughter

Post by drarunb » Fri Apr 10, 2015 10:48 pm

Dear Vinny,
Thanks very much. I have troubled senior members here to get convinced I can apply for my wife and daughter with FLR(M). Your help is much appreciated.
one point remain as unanswered in my mind.
1. In one of the threads before in the same forum
http://www.immigrationboards.com/immigr ... 9-120.html,

you had mentioned that
Annex FM Section 1.0a > 2.3. Transitional arrangements wrote:
Please note that the transitional provisions do not apply to the partner of a Relevant Points Based System Migrant who applies for leave to remain on the basis of family life as a partner on or after 6 April 2014. The partner of a Relevant PBS Migrant who wishes to apply for leave to remain on or after 6 April 2014, where their partner has been granted indefinite leave to remain under the long residence provisions of the Immigration Rules, must do so under Appendix FM.

I am still very much afraid if appendix fm applies to the dependents of PBS migrants who got ILR via Long route.
I got my ILR via PBS route after 5 years. I hope ( my understanding as a summary) still Appendix FM covers any ILR holder who wishes to live with his/her partner and children getting permission for them to live in the UK provided they qualify the
1. The immigration status of the partner who wants to join as a family(more than 6 months visa)
2. suitability for limited leave to remain.
3. Age and suitability as a spouse/ other partner
4. Financial requirement (eg £18600 for partner and £3400 for first child).
5. English language requirement
6. Partner should have a settlement or naturalisation.
My spouse meets all these criteria
please suggest I am correct in this and understanding and \I can proceed to apply for FLR(M) for my family being an ILR only through the 5 year PBS route . Just about to book the appointment as her visa expires next week!
Many thanks
Arun

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Re: what Visa should I apply for my wife and daughter

Post by vinny » Fri Apr 10, 2015 11:22 pm

Appendix FM may apply to anyone who satisfies the requirements. Unlike 284(i)(c), the Immigration status requirements, E-LTRP.2 doesn't exclude your wife.

But don't forget that her qualifying period for SET(M) will be reset.
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Re: what Visa should I apply for my wife and daughter

Post by drarunb » Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:40 am

Thanks Vinny. She is in PBS dependent visa on which she cameto the uk only 8months ago. Even if I apply for PBS grounds, after 3 years she need to renew her visa in PBS grounds which is 3 times as expensive Again. So i thouhht to go with two cheape renewal in 5 years, .
Unfortunately have to ignore 8months (of which 4 months were abroad again).
Am i right in doing so.?
Thanks
Arun

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