Immigrationboards.com

I have just recently been made aware of the new rules concerning naturalisation that went into effect on 13-Dec-2012. Somebody please correct me if I'm reading this wrong... because it sounds like they have actually made it easier for me to apply! That's a highly unusual occurrence!

Allow me to explain:

On 04-Apr-2009, I was charged with two motoring offenses in a single incident. Specifically, I received an IN10 (driving without third party insurance) and an LC20 (driving not in accordance with a provisional licence). I was convicted on 24-Aug-2009 and sentenced to a fine of approximately £700, plus six points on my licence.

Given the terms of the 1974 Rehabilitation of Offenders Act, and its role in the "Good Character" requirement of the 1981 British Nationality Act, I understood that I could not apply for British citizenship until this conviction was "spent", which would happen five years from the date of conviction (i.e., 24-Aug-2014).

Now, however, it sounds like "spent" and "unspent" convictions are no long a consideration for naturalisation. If I am reading the rules correctly, the UKBA has set up its own standards for the "Good Character" requirement. In the case of an offense that did not result in imprisonment (i.e., "non-custodial"), it sounds like the period of disqualification ends three years from the date of conviction. Which, in my case, was 24-Aug-2012.

The opinions of other, more experienced people would be much appreciated here. I don't wish to get my hopes up prematurely. I had resigned myself to waiting another nineteen months before I would be able to apply... but now it sounds as if I can start preparing my application immediately. Am I correct?

Many thanks, in advance, for your expert opinions!

It's not that "spent" and "unspent" convictions are no longer considered, indeed they are. It's that they are no longer using the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 as a basis. They have their own criteria now, which are outlined in the guidance document
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary

So the change that affects you is that the 5 year wait for a fine has been replaced with a 3 year one, but you must declare it. Temper that with the wording that if it is within 3 years they must refuse, it doesn't say that after they years they must accept.

It says:

From the 1 October 2012, certain immigration and nationality decisions were exempt from s4 of the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974. As a result, the concept of a conviction becoming "spent" no longer applies when making an assessment of good character.

Bear in mind that in section 3.3.1 it says:

3.3.1 Where the applicant is of good character in all other respects caseworkers should normally be prepared to overlook a single minor unspent conviction resulting in:

d. a relatively small fine or compensation order.

So, you are out of the 3 year MUST REFUSE window, but not out of the woods entirely as "spent" is no longer an issue, but is £700 a "relatively small fine"? I'd be interested to see the results of a post-13 December application with a single fine of that size.

Thanks for the reply. Sorry if I was unclear in the original post; I didn't mean to say that both "spent" and "unspent" convictions were no longer to be considered by the UKBA. Rather, I was trying to say that whether or not the conviction was "spent" was no longer relevant.

Your reply confirms what I was hoping -- I am indeed out of the three year window where I must be refused. However, you say that I am not "out of the woods". To be fair, if I am past the three year mark and still refused, then I basically have no hope of ever being approved, as there is no further threshold set.

I find it hard to believe that one non-custodial traffic offense would result in a permanent bar.

Section 3.3 is confusing because it goes back to the language of "unspent" convictions... after all the preceding material talking about how the "spent" / "unspent" distinction is no longer a consideration in reviewing applications.

I'm in a similar situation with a drink-driving related fine which is unspent until 2014. But under new rules, the fine should be OK once past the 3-year period.

My confusion is also around 3.3.2 in the new rules, where it says 'Caseworkers should not normally disregard offenses which would constitute “recklessness” - for example, drink-driving, etc' Does this mean, I can never apply for BC?

I'm not hijacking your thread but I'll be very interested to find out where you get to with your application. My topics is at this location - http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=123631

I'm planning on calling UKBA on Friday - will get back with whatever information I have.

Thanks for your reply. I don't see this as a "hijacking" at all -- you and I appear to be in very similar situations, so it makes sense for us to share whatever information we have!

(Actually, it sounds like your own post was somewhat hijacked into a discussion about appealing fixed penalty notices to the courts...)

I am on a business trip to Japan until the end of the month. I would like to apply for British citizenship in February... if I am eligible. Under the new rules, it sounds like you and I may be, rather than having to wait until 2014 as originally planned under the ROA 1974 laws for "spent" convictions.

However, as you say, section 3.3 is confusing. I can read it as saying that very minor offenses can be discarded without needing to wait, whereas you and I have to wait the full three years (which we have already done). If that is right, then we can apply now. On the other hand, I can also read it as saying that our cases -- both of which were instances of "recklessness" -- can never be disregarded, giving us both a permanent bar from naturalisation.

So, yes, let's definitely share information!

Also, as a safeguard, I am planning to apply via an NCS appointment. They cost £65, but hopefully the officer there can tell me if my case has no chance due to the conviction rather than letting me spend £851 on an application that is known to be doomed at the outset. You may want to consider doing the same yourself.

Talk to you soon! Cheers!

Ir0nMatt wrote:I have just recently been made aware of the new rules concerning naturalisation that went into effect on 13-Dec-2012. Somebody please correct me if I'm reading this wrong... because it sounds like they have actually made it easier for me to apply! That's a highly unusual occurrence!

Allow me to explain:

On 04-Apr-2009, I was charged with two motoring offenses in a single incident. Specifically, I received an IN10 (driving without third party insurance) and an LC20 (driving not in accordance with a provisional licence). I was convicted on 24-Aug-2009 and sentenced to a fine of approximately £700, plus six points on my licence.

Given the terms of the 1974 Rehabilitation of Offenders Act, and its role in the "Good Character" requirement of the 1981 British Nationality Act, I understood that I could not apply for British citizenship until this conviction was "spent", which would happen five years from the date of conviction (i.e., 24-Aug-2014).

Now, however, it sounds like "spent" and "unspent" convictions are no long a consideration for naturalisation. If I am reading the rules correctly, the UKBA has set up its own standards for the "Good Character" requirement. In the case of an offense that did not result in imprisonment (i.e., "non-custodial"), it sounds like the period of disqualification ends three years from the date of conviction. Which, in my case, was 24-Aug-2012.

The opinions of other, more experienced people would be much appreciated here. I don't wish to get my hopes up prematurely. I had resigned myself to waiting another nineteen months before I would be able to apply... but now it sounds as if I can start preparing my application immediately. Am I correct?

Many thanks, in advance, for your expert opinions!

Actually its been made harder mate because UKBA are now using their own rigorous criteria ...

I'm not sure that I follow you, trs.

I understand that the UKBA are now using their own criteria, rather than being bound by guidelines set by others (i.e., the 1974 ROA). However, in my specific case, outlined above, how has it gotten harder? It sounds like I've gone from needing to wait until August 2014 (five years after conviction) to being able to apply now.

Am I wrong? If so, where I have made the error?

Thanks!

Haha, u r in the exactly same it as me.

Well u r right, if we just receive a fine, then ukba made it easier for us, and just need to wait 3 years instead of 5

But for some other ppl, for example ppl receive caution, discharge all that, they now have to wait 3 years, instead 6 month or something before, and also if u in prison for more than 4 years, then Otis a blank ban.

So for those ppl, ukba made it harder!

Will, we can be in contact, I m due to apply in April, and we can keep each other up to date

Look at my thread, it is all about it

Agreed. You and I -- and a few others -- are in the same boat.

I just read, and replied to, your thread. I think those of us who share this situation need to keep in touch and share our information, too.

Hopefully this is as good as it sounds. If so, we can all be British citizens within the next few months!

Talk to you soon... and good luck!

Hi Ir0nMatt, My wife is in the same situation as you as she also got the very same codes LC20 and IN10 and got convicted in Sep 2009. With the new rules (that I came to know only today), I am very excited to apply for her naturalisation. Did you finally apply for this and I will be very thankful if you could share your story ? Many many thanks

Hi Srajeev,

Wow, it sounds like your wife and I had almost exactly the same experience. Both had LC20 and IN10, and both convicted in Aug / Sep 2009. I don't suppose her incident happened in Kent, did it?

Anyway, the timing of your question is excellent. I did indeed apply for citizenship via the local NCS on March 7th. Just yesterday, I received a letter from the home office saying that my application was successful!

So it does appear that people like your wife and myself are now good to go. I wish you and she the best of luck in your application!

Cheers,
Ir0nMatt

Ir0nMatt wrote:Now, however, it sounds like "spent" and "unspent" convictions are no long a consideration for naturalisation. If I am reading the rules correctly, the UKBA has set up its own standards for the "Good Character" requirement.

That's what I understood as well.

drdrjackbauer wrote:But for some other ppl, for example ppl receive caution, discharge all that, they now have to wait 3 years, instead 6 month or something before, and also if u in prison for more than 4 years, then Otis a blank ban.

Indeed, I think that for some people, like those with cautions, it may have gotten harder. Why the same threshold of 3 years is now used for a caution as for a conviction is a good question, since cautions are normally issued for cases that are much less serious.

Yes, I agree. The decision to treat cautions as equal to convictions seems harsh and unfair.

well i thin this is a right thing i like all the rules and i like that immigration boards step that they have taken.
Perris Locksmith

TroxeloblL wrote:well i thin this is a right thing i like all the rules and i like that immigration boards step that they have taken.
Perris Locksmith

Troll

I was fined £150 and given 3 points by court in June 2010. According to the new rules from waiting 3 instead of 5 years to apply for naturalization- I can apply in June 2013? Can I?

I have to apply for my 8 years old son at the same time.. What is the procedure? He was born outside the UK and my wife, so and myself got ILR in August 2012. I have been here since September 2005, my wife and son has been here since January 2010. Can all three apply? if not when can my apply for naturalization?

1273 wrote:I was fined £150 and given 3 points by court in June 2010. According to the new rules from waiting 3 instead of 5 years to apply for naturalization- I can apply in June 2013? Can I?

I have to apply for my 8 years old son at the same time.. What is the procedure? He was born outside the UK and my wife, so and myself got ILR in August 2012. I have been here since September 2005, my wife and son has been here since January 2010. Can all three apply? if not when can my apply for naturalization?

The fine should be declared and should not cause a refusal, there is some discretion to refuse depending on the offence but not likely in your case.

The fact that you and your wife are going to be British will support your child's application to register as a British Citizen so should be able to apply together. As you got your ilr in August an you're not married to a British Citizen you'll have to wait until you've been settled for at least 12 months - August 2013 providing you meet the other requirements as per http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/briti ... cesfromuk/

The fine should be declared and should not cause a refusal, there is some discretion to refuse depending on the offence but not likely in your case.

The fact that you and your wife are going to be British will support your child's application to register as a British Citizen so should be able to apply together. As you got your ilr in August an you're not married to a British Citizen you'll have to wait until you've been settled for at least 12 months - August 2013 providing you meet the other requirements as per http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/briti ... cesfromuk/[/quote]

Thank you Guru.... I was married in 2008. My wife and son come to UK Jan 2010 and all three of us got ILR August 2010. We all have ILR for almost 3 years .

1273 wrote:The fine should be declared and should not cause a refusal, there is some discretion to refuse depending on the offence but not likely in your case.

The fact that you and your wife are going to be British will support your child's application to register as a British Citizen so should be able to apply together. As you got your ilr in August an you're not married to a British Citizen you'll have to wait until you've been settled for at least 12 months - August 2013 providing you meet the other requirements as per http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/briti ... cesfromuk/

Thank you Guru.... I was married in 2008. My wife and son come to UK Jan 2010 and all three of us got ILR August 2010. We all have ILR for almost 3 years .

Yes the ILR would have been granted under the old rules as you lived as spouses abroad for 4+ years (I'm assuming).

The issue here is you would be relying on discretion for all of you to apply in August as you're wife has not been in the UK for 5 years. It may be wise if you naturalise yourself in August 2013 then once British apply for your spouse and child. Minimising the risk of overly relying on discretion.