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Minor travelling to India(on Indian PP) and uk (on UK PP).
Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 6:21 pm
by Gols
Okay! After lot of search and By my personal experiences I know that a minor can hold both the passports (uk &indian) till 18.
My child was born in uk (parents Indian passport) got his Indian PP in 2010. Travelled to India in 2010 on Indian PP without any Problem.
In India we applied for his uk PP and got it .
In June 2013, after a long (around 1.5yrs) stay he came back to London.
At the the time of Delhi immigration, after the long discussion the immigration officer told us that he can carry both the PP till 18 and cleared his immigration check. And in London immigration we used his uk PP and entered in London WITHOUT ANY QUERY and problem.
Now one parent is indian and other one is british citizen and applying for OCI.
We are planning to travel to Indian soon, my question is
Is my son need any OCI, exit visa, PIO ???or can he travel to / from India / UK with just the 2 passports???
OCI, means we have to surrender his Indian PP, and we really want to keep It. Looks silly but need to ask that holding 2 passport means, can you use them for travelling as well? Don't want any hassle this time.
Any personal experiences pls?????
Thanks,
Re: Minor travelling to India(on Indian PP) and uk (on UK PP
Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 9:29 pm
by Jambo
Gols wrote:Okay! After lot of search and my personal experience I know that a minor can hold both the passports (uk &indian) till 18.
My child was born in uk (parents Indian passport) got his Indian PP in 2010. Travelled to India in 2010 on Indian PP without any Problem.
I'm not an expert on Indian nationality law and this is better to be discussed in the
other countries section of the forum but I believe your child is no longer Indian and can't keep his Indian passport. The fact that he managed to travel using both passports doesn't make it legal. The UK authorities don't care about his other nationalities. They won't ask questions if he present a British passport. The India authorities don't know he is British. Whatever you were told while exiting India was wrong as far as I know. Basically your child is subject to a fine for every travel he has been doing 3 months after granted British citizenship.
Re: Minor travelling to India(on Indian PP) and uk (on UK PP
Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 9:45 pm
by Gols
Jambo wrote:Gols wrote:Okay! After lot of search and my personal experience I know that a minor can hold both the passports (uk &indian) till 18.
My child was born in uk (parents Indian passport) got his Indian PP in 2010. Travelled to India in 2010 on Indian PP without any Problem.
I'm not an expert on Indian nationality law and this is better to be discussed in the
other countries section of the forum but I believe you child is no longer Indian and can't keep his Indian passport. The fact that he managed to travel using both passport doesn't make it legal. The UK authorities don't care about his other nationalities. The India authorities don't know he is British. Whatever you were told while exiting India was wrong as far as I know. Basically you child is subject to a fine for every travel he has been doing 3 months after granted British citizenship.
Thanks for the reply,
That is why I wanted to know any personal experiences, if any one travelled in this situation.
The India authorities don't know he is British. Whatever you were told while exiting India was wrong as far as I know
We showed them his UK PP as well, so there was no incorrect or wrong information. The immigration head officer himself passed his immigration check when his Indian PP clearly stated CANCELED.
Hoping to know more experiences.
Thanks
Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 9:54 pm
by Jambo
I'm confused.
You said he travelled with two passports. Was the Indian passport cancelled? Then he did not travel on his Indian passport at all as it was cancelled.
Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 10:12 pm
by Gols
[quote="Jambo"]I'm confused.
You said he travelled with two passports. Was the Indian passport cancelled? Then he did not travel on his Indian passport at all as it was cancelled.[
You are right. YES, his Indian PP has cancelled stamp, and This is also true that he left india on the basis of
his Indian passport. If this is illegal or wrong than why did they allowed him to travel on his cancel PP? Is that mean India allowed 2 passport for minor???
Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 10:22 pm
by Jambo
So he has one valid (British) passport and one cancelled (Indian) passport. I'm not familiar with Indian formalities but I would assume he was allowed to exit India because he had a valid passport (the British one). I don't know why he wasn't asked for an exit visa.
He can't use his Indian passport for travel or to enter India anymore as it is cancelled. You need a valid passport to travel or to enter a country. I don't think he would manage to enter India using a cancelled passport.
Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 10:42 pm
by Gols
Jambo wrote:So he has one valid (British) passport and one cancelled (Indian) passport. I'm not familiar with Indian formalities but I would assume he was allowed to exit India because he had a valid passport (the British one). I don't know why he wasn't asked for an exit visa.
He can't use his Indian passport for travel or to enter India anymore as it is cancelled. You need a valid passport to travel or to enter a country. I don't think he would manage to enter India using a cancelled passport.
Yes, he has one valid (British) passport and one cancelled (Indian) passport.
He was NOT allowed to exit Indian on the basis of his British PP.
On the airport, earlier they were asking abt his exit permit, later on they discussed with their immigration head and told that he can keep his PP till 18. They didn't took any detail of his uk PP.
Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 12:53 am
by ban.s
when/why was the Indian passport cancelled?
Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 4:30 am
by Amber
Ayyubi72 wrote:I might be wrong, but I am pretty sure that if one of the parent acquires foreign citizenship, then child also loses their citizenship.
Even if I am wrong, I think you will be taking a big risk. A personal experience may not be of much help to you, as another immigration officer might take a different view and cause your trouble.
In my opinion, the best course of action will be, to surrender child's Indian passport, and obtain Indian visa on British passport. Once you are back, you can apply for child's OCI. If the child is going to be in India for a while, then you can apply for OCI from India too.
Obtaining child's visa will cost you a few bobs more, but believe me its not worth taking risk when it comes to dealing with Indian officials. Treat the visa fee as insurance against any problems you might face when leaving India.
Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 12:59 pm
by InUkOnHsmp
Why would you do that mate, why would you put your kids in that kind of jeopardy?
The way I see it there are only 2 real options:
1) Take British passport for them, surrender Indian passport, get OCI.
2) Do not take British passport, retail Indian passport and go for RoA.
Out of the 2, I would still prefer 1 for my kids, as you never know who you may find at immigration and what you may have to face if your travel document is not a passport or a valid visa on a passport.
Since you have gone for option 3, where you keep both passports, and travel on each as required, can you explain what advantages you are getting out of this?
My 2 cents.
Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 4:37 pm
by Gols
[quote="Jambo"]So he has one valid (British) passport and one cancelled (Indian) passport. I'm not familiar with Indian formalities but I would assume he was allowed to exit India because he had a valid passport (the British one). I don't know why he wasn't asked for an exit visa.
He can't use his Indian passport for travel or to enter India anymore as it is cancelled. You need a valid passport to travel or to enter a country. I don't think he would manage to enter India using a cancelled passport.[/
SORRY my fault .
Here is the correct information.
son never got cancelled stamp on Indian PP.
Also in Delhi, they put immigration stamp on his UK PP and not on his Indian PP.
Now JUMBO, according to you he was allowed to exit India because he had a valid passport (the British one). I don't know why he wasn't asked for an exit visa.
I don't think one can leave Indian without exit permit or valid visa etc. earlier They were asking about his exit permit but later on after discussing with the FRRO they allowed him, and told that he can keep both PP till18.
I m sure that minor can hold both the passport till 18. This topic is also discussed here
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... sc&start=0
And the FRRO himself told to keep both the passports but my question is can he also travel on the Indian PP???
Again my Apologies for the misunderstanding
Regards.
Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 4:40 pm
by Gols
InUkOnHsmp wrote:Why would you do that mate, why would you put your kids in that kind of jeopardy?
The way I see it there are only 2 real options:
1) Take British passport for them, surrender Indian passport, get OCI.
2) Do not take British passport, retail Indian passport and go for RoA.
Out of the 2, I would still prefer 1 for my kids, as you never know who you may find at immigration and what you may have to face if your travel document is not a passport or a valid visa on a passport.
Since you have gone for option 3, where you keep both passports, and travel on each as required, can you explain what advantages you are getting out of this?
I am sure that my son is allowed to keep both the PP till 18, so I carry PP's always withme. Immigration officer also told that it is a new rule so not many people know this.
My 2 cents.
Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 4:48 pm
by InUkOnHsmp
Thanks gols,
I am sure that my son is allowed to keep both the PP till 18, so I carry PP's always withme. Immigration officer also told that it is a new rule so not many people know this.
Do you have any official link/email about this? Thats exactly my point, its a new rule (if it is!), so you might face issues.
Besides, you still havent answered my question:
Since you have gone for option 3, where you keep both passports, and travel on each as required, can you explain what advantages you are getting out of this?
Regards
Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 4:56 pm
by Gols
Besides, you still havent answered my question:
Since you have gone for option 3, where you keep both passports, and travel on each as required, can you explain what advantages you are getting out of this?
Regards[/quote]
I carry PP with me.
Finally we are going to settle in India so having Indian PP means, no high fees for education and other things. That's why don't want to loose his Indian PP.
Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 5:01 pm
by InUkOnHsmp
OK, thanks for explaining.
My plans are exactly like yours, but I am not sure about the legality of this, so am currenly sticking to the OCI plan.
I would recommend talking to some immigratiojn lawyer in India, or taking this in writing from FRRO. I have already crossed the point of no return, maybe you can save your kids Indian PP
.
Regards
Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 9:38 pm
by ban.s
Probably this is the first time someone confirmed at this forum that a child was allowed to leave without an exit visa and along with Indian passport.
The key question here is - for a child, British by birth but Indian by descent under section 4, whether obtaining a BP passport is considered as "voluntary" acquisition of foreign nationality?
I concur with Jambo's interpretation. As the child obtained British Passport hence foreign citizenship right has been excercised and thus the child lost Indian citizenship. However there were cases in India around "voluntary" acquisition of overseas citizenship for a minor and I am not fully familiar with the decision on those cases. I would suggest discuss with someone competent in Indian nationality law especially in these areas.
Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:38 pm
by Jambo
Gols wrote:Jambo wrote:So he has one valid (British) passport and one cancelled (Indian) passport. I'm not familiar with Indian formalities but I would assume he was allowed to exit India because he had a valid passport (the British one). I don't know why he wasn't asked for an exit visa.
He can't use his Indian passport for travel or to enter India anymore as it is cancelled. You need a valid passport to travel or to enter a country. I don't think he would manage to enter India using a cancelled passport.[/
SORRY my fault .
Here is the correct information.
son never got cancelled stamp on Indian PP.
Also in Delhi, they put immigration stamp on his UK PP and not on his Indian PP.
Now JUMBO, according to you he was allowed to exit India because he had a valid passport (the British one). I don't know why he wasn't asked for an exit visa.
I don't think one can leave Indian without exit permit or valid visa etc. earlier They were asking about his exit permit but later on after discussing with the FRRO they allowed him, and told that he can keep both PP till18.
I m sure that minor can hold both the passport till 18. This topic is also discussed here
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... sc&start=0
And the FRRO himself told to keep both the passports but my question is can he also travel on the Indian PP???
Again my Apologies for the misunderstanding
Regards.
In your initial post you stated that you did a lot of research but you keep correcting yourself. You might have not done enough research so I agree with the other suggestions that you should seek legal advice.
If the Indian passport was still valid/legal when exiting, then why was a stamp placed in his UK passport?
Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 12:15 am
by wpilr_nov12
My advice: do not take chances with immigration matters. You could miss your flight or refused by the carrier. And airfare on short notice for three from India to London does not come cheap.
Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 11:51 am
by Gols
ban.s wrote:Probably this is the first time someone confirmed at this forum that a child was allowed to leave without an exit visa and along with Indian passport.
The key question here is - for a child, British by birth but Indian by descent under section 4, whether obtaining a BP passport is considered as "voluntary" acquisition of foreign nationality?
I concur with Jambo's interpretation. As the child obtained British Passport hence foreign citizenship right has been excercised and thus the child lost Indian citizenship. However there were cases in India around "voluntary" acquisition of overseas citizenship for a minor and I am not fully familiar with the decision on those cases. I would suggest discuss with someone competent in Indian nationality law especially in these areas.
Thanks ban.s,
Will defiantly do the same. I mean...don't want to miss the opportunity of keeping both PP, if it is allowed or legal.
As you know this topic is already discussed in this forum, but again don't know the end result.
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=123115
The reason I am discussing here is to know any personal experiences, if any.
Thanks again
Regards
Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 11:58 am
by Gols
wpilr_nov12 wrote:My advice: do not take chances with immigration matters. You could miss your flight or refused by the carrier. And airfare on short notice for three from India to London does not come cheap.
Thanks wpilr_nov12,
I understand the consequence of this, but again why do we miss the opportunity, if this is real! Otherwise, OCI is always in front of us
Thanks again.
Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 12:03 pm
by Gols
Jumbo wrote:In your initial post you stated that you did a lot of research but you keep correcting yourself. You might have not done enough research so I agree with the other suggestions that you should seek legal advice.
If the Indian passport was still valid/legal when exiting, then why was a stamp placed in his UK passport?
Thanks jumbo,
Will do the same.
I have no idea why did they put stamp on his uk PP. Very confusing, right?
Let's see how it goes, will sure update the result.
Regards.