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Biometric question

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 1:23 pm
by MartaZgo
Hi everyone,

Am in a process of applying for the naturalization. I am from EU and been here all together for 8 years including studies. I am going to send my papers next week however I am also planning on some charity work abroad from November. My questions are:

1. How long did it take after submitting app to receive a letter from HO to get the biometric done?
2. Typical time to receive an answer and upon positive one the invite to ceremony?
3. Do I need all my payslips from the past 5 years for the council checking meeting / application?

Many thanks,
Marta

Re: Biometric question

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 8:58 pm
by noajthan
MartaZgo wrote:Hi everyone,

Am in a process of applying for the naturalization. I am from EU and been here all together for 8 years including studies. I am going to send my papers next week however I am also planning on some charity work abroad from November. My questions are:

1. How long did it take after submitting app to receive a letter from HO to get the biometric done?
2. Typical time to receive an answer and upon positive one the invite to ceremony?
3. Do I need all my payslips from the past 5 years for the council checking meeting / application?

Many thanks,
Marta
1) Indeterminate - it can take weeks (search forum for examples);

Note If you are absent from UK you will need someone monitoring your mail:
a) in case of HO queries;
b) for biometrics letter

For biometrics you only have a small time window during which to enrol;
if you miss that you are only given a shorter, second chance;
miss that and it's 'game over'.

2) Varies wildly - HO says approx 6 months;

In my family's case it was approx 4-5 months.
Suggest subscribe to & track the timelines thread in forum.

3) Probably not all of them.
P60s per year - yes.

Do you hold a PR card ? - that helps simplify documentary requirements somewhat.

Re: Biometric question

Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2015 3:48 pm
by MartaZgo
Thank you Noajtan.
I am hoping biometrics will come before I leave!

I do not hold the permanent residence card since I am from an EU country.

last question: do I need to list all countries I have travelled to within the EU in the last 5 years..? I travel a lot , approx one trip a month for long weekends or something but it isn't documented in my passport since it's the EU so I wonder if this is required.

Re: Biometric question

Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2015 4:23 pm
by noajthan
MartaZgo wrote:Thank you Noajtan.
I am hoping biometrics will come before I leave!

I do not hold the permanent residence card since I am from an EU country.

last question: do I need to list all countries I have travelled to within the EU in the last 5 years..? I travel a lot , approx one trip a month for long weekends or something but it isn't documented in my passport since it's the EU so I wonder if this is required.
Just keep in mind if you are away when the biometrics letter comes you will just have to come back or you will put your application at risk.

A PR card is not compulsory for EEA nationals but as it confirms settled status it might have simplified some of the evidence you need to submit.

Yes it's very important to list all travel outside UK because you have to:
a) satisfy the residency requirements in the UK
and
b) stay within the limits for absence from the UK,

Try to remember even approximate dates,

You may get back some of your travel history if you request a SAR from UKVI (even if your passport was not always stamped):
see https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... mmigration

Re: Biometric question

Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 1:01 pm
by MartaZgo
Thank you.

I had my appointment but I got sent back as I don't have my WRS number. I don't think I have applied for it though, I finished university in 2010 worked part time from 2009 and then in Sept 2010 got a full time position within a company. They have not made me aware that I need that number.
I am trying to find contact details to HO or someone who can advise me if I can proceed but I am unable to do so - any help would be much appreciated!

Re: Biometric question

Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 1:12 pm
by MartaZgo
Also just wanted to check: by PR card you mean submitting application for this: https://www.gov.uk/apply-for-a-uk-resid ... dence-card

Re: Biometric question

Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 2:04 pm
by noajthan
MartaZgo wrote:Thank you.

I had my appointment but I got sent back as I don't have my WRS number. I don't think I have applied for it though, I finished university in 2010 worked part time from 2009 and then in Sept 2010 got a full time position within a company. They have not made me aware that I need that number.
I am trying to find contact details to HO or someone who can advise me if I can proceed but I am unable to do so - any help would be much appreciated!
Oh dear, this is not good news.
I don't have time for a detailed reply right now.

Search in the forum for WRS &/or look in the Forum's Citizenship FAQs
See Q6 here:
http://www.immigrationboards.com/britis ... 95747.html

Re: Biometric question

Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 2:29 pm
by MartaZgo
Thanks. Seems like the answer is I am not able to apply until 01.05.2017 now. This is rubbish!

Assuming it's 01.05.2017 now my absence period as stated: The assessment of absences for nationality applications is different as they must not exceed 450 days during the qualifying period or 90 days in the final year of that period. My qualifying period will be 01.05.2011 - 01.05.2017 ? In which it's 450 days in total and 90 in the final year (01.05.2016 - 01.05.2017)? Confirmation will be much appreciated as this depends whether I go to Africa for 6 months for an NGO project!

Thanks Noajthan.

Re: Biometric question

Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 4:12 pm
by noajthan
MartaZgo wrote:Thanks. Seems like the answer is I am not able to apply until 01.05.2017 now. This is rubbish!

Assuming it's 01.05.2017 now my absence period as stated: The assessment of absences for nationality applications is different as they must not exceed 450 days during the qualifying period or 90 days in the final year of that period. My qualifying period will be 01.05.2011 - 01.05.2017 ? In which it's 450 days in total and 90 in the final year (01.05.2016 - 01.05.2017)? Confirmation will be much appreciated as this depends whether I go to Africa for 6 months for an NGO project!

Thanks Noajthan.
This must be very upsetting news & the last thing you wanted to hear today.

If you are from an A8 country and working before 2011 you would have been expected to register & comply with WRS.
If for some reason that did not happen then work in UK before 2011 won't be considered as exercising treaty rights.
So your clock will have started (as a worker) when WRS was abolished, (some time in 2011 - you will need to check on the details).

If you continue exercising treaty rights you will acquire PR automatically sometime in 2016 (assuming you count from 2011).
That gives you settled status whether or not you apply for a confirmation of PR card. (A PR card is optional).

Unless you do something drastic & marry a BC, you need to be free from immigration time restrictions, as a prequisite to naturalisation;
this means maintaining your settled status for 12 months (ie PR) - until mid-2017 based on your figures.

You are correct, naturalisation requirements then come into play, with the limit on absences before applying being 90 days in the final 12 months.
Note I understand the total of 450 days absences is applied over 5 years (not 6).

Whilst exercising treaty rights you can be absent from UK for up to 6 months in a year & still maintain your residency in UK.

Note once you have acquired PR/settled status you can only lose it by an absence from UK of over 2 years.

With knowledge of all the rules (both EU rules & for UK naturalisation), and by a careful application of them, you may be able to make the best of the situation.

You could still go ahead with NGO plans & go abroad (for a maximum of 6 months) and in doing so you could still acquire PR in mid-2016.

Once you have PR you don't have to exercise treaty rights per se as you will have settled status.

It just means carefully timing your citizenship application so the 6 months abroad doesn't fall into the immediate 12 months before you apply;
this will ensure you don't fail the naturalisation 90-day rule.

Note: there is a strange twist to this: a court ruling earlier this year determined the extension of WRS until 2011 was 'illegal'.

Apparently this ruling has not yet made its way into UK domestic law yet.
I do not know if this ruling gives you grounds for an appeal of your case.
There is a post in the forum on this very question.
You may wish to take legal advice on that question.

If WRS was illegal from 2009 & you can appeal based on that it could alter the outcome of your current situation.

Re: Biometric question

Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 4:19 pm
by noajthan
FYI - see here on recent CJEU ruling on legality of WRS:
http://www.immigrationboards.com/eea-ro ... 94938.html

Re: Biometric question

Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 5:23 pm
by noajthan
Regarding any claim based on legality of WRS since 2009.

You stated you have been in UK for 8 years, so you arrived sometime in 2007.

If you can count time exercising treaty rights from 2009 instead of 2011 you should have acquired PR by now;
(possibly/probably in 2014).

Unless you have a high-powered legal team to back you up suggest you apply for a confirmation of PR first.
This is only risking the £65 PR card fee.

In comparison attempting a naturalisation application based on a putative start date of 2009 (ie arguing WRS was illegal after 2009) would be a high-risk strategy (& at much higher cost), with no appeal right in case of refusal.

Not sure if any route is possible for you as you have travel plans & may not wish your documents tied up for the x months a PR card application would take.
Anyone it's on the table & it's your call.

Best of luck.

Re: Biometric question

Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 6:51 pm
by noajthan
MartaZgo wrote:Also just wanted to check: by PR card you mean submitting application for this: https://www.gov.uk/apply-for-a-uk-resid ... dence-card
Yes that is the Gov UK page for PR card (not to be confused with 'RC' card).

See also https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... orm-eea-pr

Re: Biometric question

Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 8:22 am
by noajthan
noajthan wrote:FYI - see here on recent CJEU ruling on legality of WRS:
http://www.immigrationboards.com/eea-ro ... 94938.html
Correction: it was a decision of the Chamber of the Upper Tribunal (UT).

More here:
http://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/7776

Re: Biometric question

Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 11:06 am
by MartaZgo
Thanks Noajthan. Much appreciate it. I don't think I will risk the fee even with the decision of the Upper Tribunal. However I might think of getting the PR card next year and then proceed in 2017 given the NGO work would be indeed up to 6 months and rather now then later.

Last question I promise! If I decide the do a full time master from next September, this will still count fine for my 5 years residence?
M.

Re: Biometric question

Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 11:56 am
by noajthan
MartaZgo wrote:Thanks Noajthan. Much appreciate it. I don't think I will risk the fee even with the decision of the Upper Tribunal. However I might think of getting the PR card next year and then proceed in 2017 given the NGO work would be indeed up to 6 months and rather now then later.

Last question I promise! If I decide the do a full time master from next September, this will still count fine for my 5 years residence?
M.
Yes you can exercise treaty rights in UK as a student because that is one of the acceptable categories of 'qualified person' (ie in context of EU rules, not in terms of education/qualifications).

Just make sure you have CSI in place or your time as student will not count towards PR.

Alternately, an EHIC card from your home country will do at a pinch but then you need to provide a signed statement of intent to leave UK (with evidence of ties to home country).
(Ie EHIC is accepted as a form of CSI on a short-term basis, only).

So CSI is perhaps preferable & simpler.
You can research CSI policy providers on WWW or search in forum.

See https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... issued.pdf

Good luck.