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Hi

I need an urgent advice and help in regards to my ILR, I am going to Birmingham PEO office next Tuesday i.e. 22/01/2013

But I have a 3 penalty points on my licence given my court and £ 315 fine offence code CU20.

Kindly advice me if I declare these on my application or not and if yes how it will affect my ILR application as I have sucessfully completed five years period after HSMP without any gaps.

Please reply to this post asap.

Many Thanks

When did it happen? Did you check CRB?

I got advice on this forum that it is usually better to declare it and it should not affect. But I'm not sure if it's a good idea to declare it in case you don't have criminal record.

Can some guru advice with the logical explanation, is it good idea to declare traffic offence if CRB is clear? It would be very helpful for many people.

Thanks a lot.

Hello Mate,
what happened with your application?Any good news?

Hi

MY ILR Application is refused before the submission on 22/01/2013 as I have three points on my driving licence given by court.

The Immigration officer told me I can apply for tier 1 extension again for two years until these will come off. MY CRB IS CLEAN.

I am still on Tier 1 General Visa Which is valid till end feb, please advice right course of action as I am confused about the fee for the extension visa how much I have to pay for the Tier 1 Extension.

Can any of the seniors please reply to this post cause many of you read the post and dont have a courtesy to reply and to help others, thats pathetic.

What was the date of the offence?

Have you considered that members who have read your post simply don't have sufficient knowledge to advise you.

Cherryberry800,

Really sorry to hear about your refusal.
I am not an expert in these things but i have come across a similar case as yours where the person was granted ILR.
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... highlight=
i think you need to do some research to check similarity of both cases.
Having done that you may want to also consult a solicitor to help you out.

Good luck

MY PEO EXPERIENCE IN DETAIL

I went for my ILR PEO appointment yesterday on 22/01/2013 to Birmingham Solihull. At the initial checks before paying for the fee my application is been refused as I have three penalty points on my licence sentenced by court last year on 15/05/2012 and fined £570 offence code CU20 as I was involved in an accident with a motorbike and forgot to attend the court date and judge made a decision in my absence.

The Immigration officer check my passports and visas first and writing down all the details against the points claimed as soon as he turned to the conviction page of the application form he asked that is this a fixed penalty or given by court

I told him honestly that its been given by court, he then went back to ask his colleagues and came back just after a one minute not more then that and told me that I need to wait for two years until the conviction become spent because if I apply for ILR now its most likely that it will be rejected.

I have been told by him that I can still apply for the TIER 1 extension.

I need urgent help and guidance in this regard and is there any possibility for me to still get an ILR while having these points on my licence.

Keeping in mind that I have three penalty points on my licence sentenced by court last year on 15/05/2012 and fined £570 offence code CU20.

Date of Offence 20/03/2011

Date of Conviction 04/11/2011

Date of Sentence 15/05/2012

Offence Code: CU 20


I had a enhanced CRB done in August last year which is all clear and the date of sentence was 3 months before my CRB check so logically if theres anything wrong then it should have shown in the enhanced CRB.

I have seen people who have done every wrong thing under the sun and still get their ILR accepted.

Kindly please advice the appropriate action to be taken asap as my visa is expiring on 08/02/2013.

Cherryberry800 wrote:MY PEO EXPERIENCE IN DETAIL

I went for my ILR PEO appointment yesterday on 22/01/2013 to Birmingham Solihull. At the initial checks before paying for the fee my application is been refused as I have three penalty points on my licence sentenced by court last year on 15/05/2012 and fined £570 offence code CU20 as I was involved in an accident with a motorbike and forgot to attend the court date and judge made a decision in my absence.

The Immigration officer check my passports and visas first and writing down all the details against the points claimed as soon as he turned to the conviction page of the application form he asked that is this a fixed penalty or given by court

I told him honestly that its been given by court, he then went back to ask his colleagues and came back just after a one minute not more then that and told me that I need to wait for two years until the conviction become spent because if I apply for ILR now its most likely that it will be rejected.

I have been told by him that I can still apply for the TIER 1 extension.

I need urgent help and guidance in this regard and is there any possibility for me to still get an ILR while having these points on my licence.

Keeping in mind that I have three penalty points on my licence sentenced by court last year on 15/05/2012 and fined £570 offence code CU20.

Date of Offence 20/03/2011

Date of Conviction 04/11/2011

Date of Sentence 15/05/2012

Offence Code: CU 20


I had a enhanced CRB done in August last year which is all clear and the date of sentence was 3 months before my CRB check so logically if theres anything wrong then it should have shown in the enhanced CRB.

I have seen people who have done every wrong thing under the sun and still get their ILR accepte
Kindly please advice the appropriate action to be taken asap as my visa is expiring on 08/02/2013.

The prudent and wise course of action would be to get an extension on same category and apply for ILR Once 24 months are elapsed from the conviction date.

Prima facie a court fine would become spent after 5 years. You need to see a immigration solicitor and confirm when it becomes spent under rehabilitation of offenders act. When it becomes spent you would be eligible providing no more offences.

D4109125 wrote:Prima facie a court fine would become spent after 5 years. You need to see a immigration solicitor and confirm when it becomes spent under rehabilitation of offenders act. When it becomes spent you would be eligible providing no more offences.

Read the new rules stated in the 'New Criminal Conviction Threshold' in the sticky note. Rehab Act has been scrapped.

Gagan1986 wrote:

D4109125 wrote:Prima facie a court fine would become spent after 5 years. You need to see a immigration solicitor and confirm when it becomes spent under rehabilitation of offenders act. When it becomes spent you would be eligible providing no more offences.

Read the new rules stated in the 'New Criminal Conviction Threshold' in the sticky note. Rehab Act has been scrapped.

Sorry, my mistake. I think it's therefore necessary for the op to write to the police and request a sar for information held on the pnc as well as a disclosure Scotland certificate. The wording states it must be recorded on a personals criminal record in order to be considered relevant.

Cherryberry800 wrote:MY PEO EXPERIENCE IN DETAIL

I went for my ILR PEO appointment yesterday on 22/01/2013 to Birmingham Solihull. At the initial checks before paying for the fee my application is been refused as I have three penalty points on my licence sentenced by court last year on 15/05/2012 and fined £570 offence code CU20 as I was involved in an accident with a motorbike and forgot to attend the court date and judge made a decision in my absence.

The Immigration officer check my passports and visas first and writing down all the details against the points claimed as soon as he turned to the conviction page of the application form he asked that is this a fixed penalty or given by court

I told him honestly that its been given by court, he then went back to ask his colleagues and came back just after a one minute not more then that and told me that I need to wait for two years until the conviction become spent because if I apply for ILR now its most likely that it will be rejected.

I have been told by him that I can still apply for the TIER 1 extension.

I need urgent help and guidance in this regard and is there any possibility for me to still get an ILR while having these points on my licence.

Keeping in mind that I have three penalty points on my licence sentenced by court last year on 15/05/2012 and fined £570 offence code CU20.

Date of Offence 20/03/2011

Date of Conviction 04/11/2011

Date of Sentence 15/05/2012

Offence Code: CU 20


I had a enhanced CRB done in August last year which is all clear and the date of sentence was 3 months before my CRB check so logically if theres anything wrong then it should have shown in the enhanced CRB.

I have seen people who have done every wrong thing under the sun and still get their ILR accepted.

Kindly please advice the appropriate action to be taken asap as my visa is expiring on 08/02/2013.

This is really odd that your offence is not recorded and your ilr application is refused. According to the new criminality threshold, your application should not be refused due to an offence which is not recorded. I therefore suggest you request a CRB check now to see whether the offence appears.
If not, you should not be refused because of it.

Any convictions through the court in last 2 year from the date of application will be refused regardless it comes in CRB or not

Thanks for your input guys but I have contacted few immigration advisors and solicitors and they said it also depends on the discretion of the Immigration officer handling the case either he can oversee it as a minor offence.

Keeping in mind there are categories of Major and Minor traffic offences.

No one wants to do an accident intentionally but ukba put every one in same category which is not fair at all.

I am going to see a barrister soon so lets see if he can come up with any solution.

Pray for me my friends and thanks once again for your posts, please keep me updated with further posts if you can have any more information in regards to this case.

Good luck. Will pray for your application success. You are better off going to a solicitor and see what the options are. Hopefully something should be sorted

Gagan1986 wrote:Any convictions through the court in last 2 year from the date of application will be refused regardless it comes in CRB or not

after reading the rules again, I have to say I agree with you.

I am praying for Cherryberry800. Good luck.

The relevant paragraph is paragraph 322 (IC)(IV) of the immigration rules:

(1C) where the person is seeking indefinite leave to enter or remain:
(i) they have been convicted of an offence for which they have been sentenced to imprisonment for at least 4 years; or
(ii) they have been convicted of an offence for which they have been sentenced to imprisonment for at least 12 months but less than 4 years, unless a period of 15 years has passed since the end of the sentence; or
(iii) they have been convicted of an offence for which they have been sentenced to imprisonment for less than 12 months, unless a period of 7 years has passed since the end of the sentence; or
(iv) they have, within the 24 months preceding the date of the application, been convicted of or admitted an offence for which they have received a non-custodial sentence or other out of court disposal that is recorded on their criminal record.


Thats the paragraph from Immigration rules and point number is more connected with my case but keeping in mind I didnt get any non custodial sentence or any out of court disposal and nothing is been recorded on my CRB.

Then how come that immigration officer refused my application without properly looking at it and gave his verdict by asking his seniors in a matter of one mintue and thats it.

Its all very confusing and frustating, dont know what to do?

Shall I take a risk by sending it by post or ring the court first and ask them if it was a fixed penalty offence?

Or Apply for another enhanced CRB and SAC report?

sorry to hear about your case but as you said it depends on case worker.

I also got 3 points on my license along with £60 fine for speeding. I'm willing to show it in the form, however section 7.2 clearly say not to include FPN for speeding.
And section 7.4 for is not related with traffic offence. So where i should mention that I've got 3 FPN for speeding.
your early response would be highly appreciated, as i've got appointment at PEO in Croydon on 21/2.
Many Thanks.

sarvar wrote:sorry to hear about your case but as you said it depends on case worker.

I also got 3 points on my license along with £60 fine for speeding. I'm willing to show it in the form, however section 7.2 clearly say not to include FPN for speeding.
And section 7.4 for is not related with traffic offence. So where i should mention that I've got 3 FPN for speeding.
your early response would be highly appreciated, as i've got appointment at PEO in Croydon on 21/2.
Many Thanks.

You don't need to mention any FPN! Only fines and convictions through court

Cherryberry800 wrote:The relevant paragraph is paragraph 322 (IC)(IV) of the immigration rules:

(1C) where the person is seeking indefinite leave to enter or remain:
(i) they have been convicted of an offence for which they have been sentenced to imprisonment for at least 4 years; or
(ii) they have been convicted of an offence for which they have been sentenced to imprisonment for at least 12 months but less than 4 years, unless a period of 15 years has passed since the end of the sentence; or
(iii) they have been convicted of an offence for which they have been sentenced to imprisonment for less than 12 months, unless a period of 7 years has passed since the end of the sentence; or
(iv) they have, within the 24 months preceding the date of the application, been convicted of or admitted an offence for which they have received a non-custodial sentence or other out of court disposal that is recorded on their criminal record.


Thats the paragraph from Immigration rules and point number is more connected with my case but keeping in mind I didnt get any non custodial sentence or any out of court disposal and nothing is been recorded on my CRB.

Then how come that immigration officer refused my application without properly looking at it and gave his verdict by asking his seniors in a matter of one mintue and thats it.

Its all very confusing and frustating, dont know what to do?

Shall I take a risk by sending it by post or ring the court first and ask them if it was a fixed penalty offence?

Or Apply for another enhanced CRB and SAC report?

Hi,Cherryberry800, I am sorry for your situation.
The following is taken from page 51 of
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary

A fine is considered to be a non-custodial sentence which forms part of the person’s criminal
record. If a person has a fine (regardless of the size and/or amount they were fined) within
the relevant timeframe, you must:
 refuse the application (where mandatory), or
 consider refusing the application (where discretionary).

But there are many examples on this forum when people got ILR with traffic offence. So it should depend on nature of the offence.

There is a guidance for good character for British citizenship applications.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary

Look at page of about Recklessness. Page 4 (at the end).


Now, I wonder, do they apply the same rules to ILR? If they do and they decided that CU20 constitutes recklessness, then it explains it.


Can any guru please comment, does the same check of good character applies for ILR which is described in the link or do they apply stricter rules for ILR.

They must probably apply the same recklessness rule for ILR because many people with other traffic offences got ILR. I checked link for case worker ground for refusal document which alanwong gave and did not find anything about recklessness there. In fact it does not say anything about driving offences except disqualification.

Even for a fine, there is still some flexibility:
A fine is considered to be a non-custodial sentence which forms part of the person’s criminal
record. If a person has a fine (regardless of the size and/or amount they were fined) within
the relevant timeframe, you must:
 refuse the application (where mandatory), or
 consider refusing the application (where discretionary).

where mandatory or discretionary? who decides this?
Is it up to caseworkers? If so, then ...

As all of us may think that a simple caution which is within 24 months preceding to ilr application date will lead to mandatory refusal according immigration rule 322:1C. However I have already learned that people in this situation got their ILR in this month.

Please see my understanding below.

'Fine' issued by a court is considered as non-custodial sentence.

Fixed Penalty Notices(FPN) is not same as 'Fine'.

UKBA considers the FPN issued by court as a conviction. However the caseworker may choose to ignore some FPN based on the nature of the offence.

Drink driving, Mobile use(?), Reckless driving, etc are typically considered as serious offences.

No need to declare an FPN in Set(o) form unless it is issued by court. I think the above mentioned traffic offences are issued by court. Minor FPNs are issued by the Police officer itself and typically the officer will indicate whether it will appear in the Criminal Records.

No need to declare PCN(Penalty Charge Notice) unless it issued by a court or issued under UK immigration acts.

Traffic fines do not come under immigration acts, it comes under some Road Traffice Acts.

Please note that these are my understanding and interpretation.